ISO Educational Consultant with Strong Experience with Montgomery County Public School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


It is common sense to look at student test scores when choosing a school. It certain does not tell you EVERYTHING about "whether the teachers are good or whether the school is well-run". ANYTHING? hard to say.

And also remember people can be interested in knowing how good their kids' schoolmates perform before choosing a school as well.

How did people ever manage to do this before there were standardized test scores easily available on the Internet?!

But yes, if you're interested in the average scores on standardized tests at a school, then it certainly is common sense to look at the average scores on standardized tests at the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


It is common sense to look at student test scores when choosing a school. It certain does not tell you EVERYTHING about "whether the teachers are good or whether the school is well-run". ANYTHING? hard to say.

And also remember people can be interested in knowing how good their kids' schoolmates perform before choosing a school as well.

How did people ever manage to do this before there were standardized test scores easily available on the Internet?!

But yes, if you're interested in the average scores on standardized tests at a school, then it certainly is common sense to look at the average scores on standardized tests at the school.

It is common sense to look at student performance data before choosing a school because it is one of the most directly accessible information. I don't know how people manage to do it before - but it is clearly easy to do now.
This is much easier than finding out how "good" the teachers (there can be reviews but you'll never be able to find that for ALL the teachers and make a sensible comparison between schools) are, or similar aspects that are rather subjective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


It is common sense to look at student test scores when choosing a school. It certain does not tell you EVERYTHING about "whether the teachers are good or whether the school is well-run". ANYTHING? hard to say.

And also remember people can be interested in knowing how good their kids' schoolmates perform before choosing a school as well.

How did people ever manage to do this before there were standardized test scores easily available on the Internet?!

But yes, if you're interested in the average scores on standardized tests at a school, then it certainly is common sense to look at the average scores on standardized tests at the school.

It is common sense to look at student performance data before choosing a school because it is one of the most directly accessible information. I don't know how people manage to do it before - but it is clearly easy to do now.
This is much easier than finding out how "good" the teachers (there can be reviews but you'll never be able to find that for ALL the teachers and make a sensible comparison between schools) are, or similar aspects that are rather subjective.

Yes, but what does it actually tell you? Looking at directly-accessible information that doesn't actually tell you what you want to know - that's not common sense, that's a waste of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


It is common sense to look at student test scores when choosing a school. It certain does not tell you EVERYTHING about "whether the teachers are good or whether the school is well-run". ANYTHING? hard to say.

And also remember people can be interested in knowing how good their kids' schoolmates perform before choosing a school as well.

How did people ever manage to do this before there were standardized test scores easily available on the Internet?!

But yes, if you're interested in the average scores on standardized tests at a school, then it certainly is common sense to look at the average scores on standardized tests at the school.

It is common sense to look at student performance data before choosing a school because it is one of the most directly accessible information. I don't know how people manage to do it before - but it is clearly easy to do now.
This is much easier than finding out how "good" the teachers (there can be reviews but you'll never be able to find that for ALL the teachers and make a sensible comparison between schools) are, or similar aspects that are rather subjective.

Yes, but what does it actually tell you? Looking at directly-accessible information that doesn't actually tell you what you want to know - that's not common sense, that's a waste of time.

It is hard to believe that schools nowadays provide this "waste of time" information to the public.

If you really can't figure it out, I can tell you a few things those test scores can tell you:
1. it can tell you how "good" (performance-wise) your kids' schoolmates are going to be. Maybe you don't care, fine. But many parents do.

2. It provides a bottom line on how good (or, not so bad) the school performs. Sure, it does not tell you everything about the teachers and schools. But it is hard to imagine a school being disfunctional and teachers being highly disqualified in a school where the student test scores are among the top in the region.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It is hard to believe that schools nowadays provide this "waste of time" information to the public.

If you really can't figure it out, I can tell you a few things those test scores can tell you:
1. it can tell you how "good" (performance-wise) your kids' schoolmates are going to be. Maybe you don't care, fine. But many parents do.

2. It provides a bottom line on how good (or, not so bad) the school performs. Sure, it does not tell you everything about the teachers and schools. But it is hard to imagine a school being disfunctional and teachers being highly disqualified in a school where the student test scores are among the top in the region.

I guess you don't read the threads on DCUM about Churchill HS.

The schools nowadays provide this information to the public because federal law required them to. (I don't know whether federal law still requires them to.) The idea was that the standardized test scores would provide information about the quality of the education provided by the school. But it turned out that they didn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


It is common sense to look at student test scores when choosing a school. It certain does not tell you EVERYTHING about "whether the teachers are good or whether the school is well-run". ANYTHING? hard to say.

And also remember people can be interested in knowing how good their kids' schoolmates perform before choosing a school as well.

How did people ever manage to do this before there were standardized test scores easily available on the Internet?!

But yes, if you're interested in the average scores on standardized tests at a school, then it certainly is common sense to look at the average scores on standardized tests at the school.

It is common sense to look at student performance data before choosing a school because it is one of the most directly accessible information. I don't know how people manage to do it before - but it is clearly easy to do now.
This is much easier than finding out how "good" the teachers (there can be reviews but you'll never be able to find that for ALL the teachers and make a sensible comparison between schools) are, or similar aspects that are rather subjective.

I think people didn't do it before. They talked to friends and neighbors, or they just bought a house they liked and sent their kids to the school (as many people still do). The focus on creating and publicizing standardized test scores may have unintentionally contributed to wealth segregation by making schools with more high income/SES families look better and then attracting more such families. It is a possible contributor to the fact that our schools are more segregated today than they were in the 80s/90s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is hard to believe that schools nowadays provide this "waste of time" information to the public.

If you really can't figure it out, I can tell you a few things those test scores can tell you:
1. it can tell you how "good" (performance-wise) your kids' schoolmates are going to be. Maybe you don't care, fine. But many parents do.

2. It provides a bottom line on how good (or, not so bad) the school performs. Sure, it does not tell you everything about the teachers and schools. But it is hard to imagine a school being disfunctional and teachers being highly disqualified in a school where the student test scores are among the top in the region.

I guess you don't read the threads on DCUM about Churchill HS.

The schools nowadays provide this information to the public because federal law required them to. (I don't know whether federal law still requires them to.) The idea was that the standardized test scores would provide information about the quality of the education provided by the school. But it turned out that they didn't.

I did. It has nothing to do with what we discuss here. People can choose to believe what they believe. Test scores certainly are not EVERYTHING. Yet it shows one aspect of the school. If I don't know anything about two schools other than test scores, it is more likely (no one can be certain) that a school with high test scores is more preferred. If, instead, you have some specific information about certain schools, of course you may consider it. But it takes time and effort to find out about these, and these information does not in anyway, make the test scores useless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


It is common sense to look at student test scores when choosing a school. It certain does not tell you EVERYTHING about "whether the teachers are good or whether the school is well-run". ANYTHING? hard to say.

And also remember people can be interested in knowing how good their kids' schoolmates perform before choosing a school as well.

How did people ever manage to do this before there were standardized test scores easily available on the Internet?!

But yes, if you're interested in the average scores on standardized tests at a school, then it certainly is common sense to look at the average scores on standardized tests at the school.

It is common sense to look at student performance data before choosing a school because it is one of the most directly accessible information. I don't know how people manage to do it before - but it is clearly easy to do now.
This is much easier than finding out how "good" the teachers (there can be reviews but you'll never be able to find that for ALL the teachers and make a sensible comparison between schools) are, or similar aspects that are rather subjective.

That information isn't that helpful. It's just an average that indicates an areas overall affluence. One school may have a small group of high-performers whereas another has a slightly larger group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I did. It has nothing to do with what we discuss here. People can choose to believe what they believe. Test scores certainly are not EVERYTHING. Yet it shows one aspect of the school. If I don't know anything about two schools other than test scores, it is more likely (no one can be certain) that a school with high test scores is more preferred. If, instead, you have some specific information about certain schools, of course you may consider it. But it takes time and effort to find out about these, and these information does not in anyway, make the test scores useless.

A school with high test scores is more preferred, by whom, for what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I did. It has nothing to do with what we discuss here. People can choose to believe what they believe. Test scores certainly are not EVERYTHING. Yet it shows one aspect of the school. If I don't know anything about two schools other than test scores, it is more likely (no one can be certain) that a school with high test scores is more preferred. If, instead, you have some specific information about certain schools, of course you may consider it. But it takes time and effort to find out about these, and these information does not in anyway, make the test scores useless.

A school with high test scores is more preferred, by whom, for what?

not by you, for reasons that you don't care. is that a good answer?

[Anonymous]

It's a response, but it's not an answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a response, but it's not an answer.

then how about this:

by some parents; because they think there is a higher chance for a school to be "better" if the students perform better - if no other information is available for comparison purposes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a response, but it's not an answer.

then how about this:

by some parents; because they think there is a higher chance for a school to be "better" if the students perform better - if no other information is available for comparison purposes.

That's a circular answer. People who think that schools with high average standardized test scores are better prefer schools with high average standardized test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a response, but it's not an answer.

then how about this:

by some parents; because they think there is a higher chance for a school to be "better" if the students perform better - if no other information is available for comparison purposes.

That's a circular answer. People who think that schools with high average standardized test scores are better prefer schools with high average standardized test scores.

It is not. I explicitly said: because they think there is a higher chance for a school to be "better".

That is: they don't know for sure whether the school is better. But from the only information they have: test scores (that is the precondition for my previous statement) - they believe there is a positive correlation between
the probability of the school being better to the student test scores.

I don't think there is anything wrong with that logic. That stands for (I believe) any reasonable definitions of a "better school".

[Anonymous]

OP: I don't know of any educational consultants who provide this service. I can tell you that when we moved from DC to MD, I went to ES open houses for all the schools in the neighborhoods I was considering. Although they follow the same curriculum, schools have different atmospheres & strengths. In my area, one school had a planetarium; one school was the regional Special Education center & had supports & services above & beyond the other schools; one school had a stream nearby where the kids did environmental programming, and so forth. I listened to the principals speak, watched teachers teach, & asked Qs of the parents leading the tour. I gathered lots of info this way, and this drove my choice of neighborhood. I definitely was not in the 'buy the house you love & send your kid to any MCPS school' camp. I would also advise you to strongly consider HS feeder patterns as you make your decision. HTH