Why Jesus had to die for humanity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a big question. So, Jesus came to die for humanity. What did the humanity do that it warranted such a sacrifice?
Considering that humanity as such has not been around for much before Jesus times, if you consider that Paleolithic and Mesolithic ear was nothing to write home about from the ethical or moral perspective, then we have really very short period of time from the time of first farming and first cities to Jesus time.. those few tribes and few nations with relatively few people who did what humans always did before and after Christ..
fought each other and tried to overtake the next people's lands and goods. Nothing really changed, still the same 2000 years after Christ.
Why was it so important that Jesus had to die on the cross and what it really change? If anything? As far as the people and kingdoms are concerned everything is exactly the same if not worse.

Op He had to die, go to Hell snd rise again to defeat death. Death = sin. We all have sin and thus are going to die. Jesus offers a way back to God, whom we are separated from due to our sin.

NP. I don’t understand this at all. What does it mean, “death=sin”? Surely we all die because we are human? Is the idea that otherwise we would all live forever? How does Jesus’s death help? (Not trying to be snarky, just taking opportunity to ask questions I’ve always wanted to)

I believe the thinking is that humans would live forever had Adam and Eve not eaten of the tree in the Garden of Eden. That sin is what made us human functionally, and because of that we are no longer good enough for the pure goodness of god. Before Jesus came people had to make regular animal sacrifices to stay “right” with god. But then Jesus came along and lived a perfect life without sin and was the new sacrifice for us all.

I get the logic behind it, as the story has been refined for thousands of years. I do, however, reject the premise.

Thanks but I still don't get it. When people were making animal sacrifices they still died. After Jesus came and went, everyone still dies. What did Jesus achieve?

For Christians, Jesus's death achieves ETERNAL life for all who believe in him. You die a normal "human" death, but then live on in spirit form forever in heaven. That is the good news for Christians.

But what about people who lived/died before Jesus's time?

Too bad for them -- as well as the people who lived after Jesus but didn't hear about him. That's why the work of the missionaries was so important.

[Anonymous]

A lot of the questions here are easily googled

In the early Church, Justin Martyr, a Church Father, taught that those who lived according to the logos are Christians, though they might not know about Jesus Christ.[1] Tertullian held that Christ has descended into Hades to deliver the Good News, with Clement of Alexandria, Origen and Athanasius declaring that "Jesus delivered from hell both Jews and Gentiles who accepted the gospel and that postmortem evangelism continues even today".[1] Augustine of Hippo, however, believed that the unevangelized are condemned to hell and Thomas Aquainas held that those "brought up in the forest or among wolves" would be sent "the gospel message through miraculous means."[1]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fate_of_the_unlearned

The fate of the unlearned, also known as the destiny of the unevangelized, is an eschatological question about the ultimate destiny of people who have not been exposed to a particular theology or doctrine and thus have no opportunity to embrace it. The question is whether those who never hear of requirements issued through divine revelations will be punished for failure to abide by those requirements.

It is sometimes addressed in combination with the similar question of the fate of the unbeliever. Differing faith traditions have different responses to the question; in Christianity the fate of the unlearned is related to the question of original sin. As some suggest that rigid readings of religious texts require harsh punishment for those who have never heard of that religion, it is sometimes raised as an argument against the existence of God, and is generally accepted to be an extension or sub-section of the problem of evil.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So I'm not the most orthodox of Christians, but sometimes I think maybe Jesus didnt HAVE to die that way. It wasn't inevitable. People with free will chose to take the actions that ultimately killed him. And things haven't apparently changed that much because we haven't truly followed his path, we still value worldly things and worldly power too much.

The Bible is clear that Jesus cane to die for our sins

Yes, but that doesn't mean the cross at age 33 was the only way it could have happened. If you think there was no free will involved then you can't blame Judas, Pilate, or anyone else involved in his death either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A lot of the questions here are easily googled

In the early Church, Justin Martyr, a Church Father, taught that those who lived according to the logos are Christians, though they might not know about Jesus Christ.[1] Tertullian held that Christ has descended into Hades to deliver the Good News, with Clement of Alexandria, Origen and Athanasius declaring that "Jesus delivered from hell both Jews and Gentiles who accepted the gospel and that postmortem evangelism continues even today".[1] Augustine of Hippo, however, believed that the unevangelized are condemned to hell and Thomas Aquainas held that those "brought up in the forest or among wolves" would be sent "the gospel message through miraculous means."[1]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fate_of_the_unlearned

The fate of the unlearned, also known as the destiny of the unevangelized, is an eschatological question about the ultimate destiny of people who have not been exposed to a particular theology or doctrine and thus have no opportunity to embrace it. The question is whether those who never hear of requirements issued through divine revelations will be punished for failure to abide by those requirements.

It is sometimes addressed in combination with the similar question of the fate of the unbeliever. Differing faith traditions have different responses to the question; in Christianity the fate of the unlearned is related to the question of original sin. As some suggest that rigid readings of religious texts require harsh punishment for those who have never heard of that religion, it is sometimes raised as an argument against the existence of God, and is generally accepted to be an extension or sub-section of the problem of evil.

Pretty complicated, even when googled. And Google has only been around a little while. Hard to believe that God would count on theologians and the internet to communicate with his flock

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a big question. So, Jesus came to die for humanity. What did the humanity do that it warranted such a sacrifice?
Considering that humanity as such has not been around for much before Jesus times, if you consider that Paleolithic and Mesolithic ear was nothing to write home about from the ethical or moral perspective, then we have really very short period of time from the time of first farming and first cities to Jesus time.. those few tribes and few nations with relatively few people who did what humans always did before and after Christ..
fought each other and tried to overtake the next people's lands and goods. Nothing really changed, still the same 2000 years after Christ.
Why was it so important that Jesus had to die on the cross and what it really change? If anything? As far as the people and kingdoms are concerned everything is exactly the same if not worse.

Op He had to die, go to Hell snd rise again to defeat death. Death = sin. We all have sin and thus are going to die. Jesus offers a way back to God, whom we are separated from due to our sin.

NP. I don’t understand this at all. What does it mean, “death=sin”? Surely we all die because we are human? Is the idea that otherwise we would all live forever? How does Jesus’s death help? (Not trying to be snarky, just taking opportunity to ask questions I’ve always wanted to)

I believe the thinking is that humans would live forever had Adam and Eve not eaten of the tree in the Garden of Eden. That sin is what made us human functionally, and because of that we are no longer good enough for the pure goodness of god. Before Jesus came people had to make regular animal sacrifices to stay “right” with god. But then Jesus came along and lived a perfect life without sin and was the new sacrifice for us all.

I get the logic behind it, as the story has been refined for thousands of years. I do, however, reject the premise.

Thanks but I still don't get it. When people were making animal sacrifices they still died. After Jesus came and went, everyone still dies. What did Jesus achieve?

For Christians, Jesus's death achieves ETERNAL life for all who believe in him. You die a normal "human" death, but then live on in spirit form forever in heaven. That is the good news for Christians.

But what about people who lived/died before Jesus's time?

Too bad for them -- as well as the people who lived after Jesus but didn't hear about him. That's why the work of the missionaries was so important.

Really? I'm the PP with all the questions. Can that be right? The millions of people who all simply had the misfortune to live before Jesus was born miss out on this? Is the eternal life what is known as "heaven"? If you are not in heaven (including all the pre-Jesus people), are you in hell? If not, where?

[Anonymous]

Hi OP. I'm not sure why no one is answering your question clearly, but here it is:

God wouldn't let people into heaven because He was still mad about the apple incident. Jesus had to die so that God would unlock the gates to let His Son back in. Now that the gates are open, we can all get into heaven, if we ask Jesus to let us in.

I'm sorry if that sounds snarky. I really don't mean it too, but I'm trying to avoid all those euphemisms like "original sin".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a big question. So, Jesus came to die for humanity. What did the humanity do that it warranted such a sacrifice?
Considering that humanity as such has not been around for much before Jesus times, if you consider that Paleolithic and Mesolithic ear was nothing to write home about from the ethical or moral perspective, then we have really very short period of time from the time of first farming and first cities to Jesus time.. those few tribes and few nations with relatively few people who did what humans always did before and after Christ..
fought each other and tried to overtake the next people's lands and goods. Nothing really changed, still the same 2000 years after Christ.
Why was it so important that Jesus had to die on the cross and what it really change? If anything? As far as the people and kingdoms are concerned everything is exactly the same if not worse.

Op He had to die, go to Hell snd rise again to defeat death. Death = sin. We all have sin and thus are going to die. Jesus offers a way back to God, whom we are separated from due to our sin.

NP. I don’t understand this at all. What does it mean, “death=sin”? Surely we all die because we are human? Is the idea that otherwise we would all live forever? How does Jesus’s death help? (Not trying to be snarky, just taking opportunity to ask questions I’ve always wanted to)

I believe the thinking is that humans would live forever had Adam and Eve not eaten of the tree in the Garden of Eden. That sin is what made us human functionally, and because of that we are no longer good enough for the pure goodness of god. Before Jesus came people had to make regular animal sacrifices to stay “right” with god. But then Jesus came along and lived a perfect life without sin and was the new sacrifice for us all.

I get the logic behind it, as the story has been refined for thousands of years. I do, however, reject the premise.

Thanks but I still don't get it. When people were making animal sacrifices they still died. After Jesus came and went, everyone still dies. What did Jesus achieve?

For Christians, Jesus's death achieves ETERNAL life for all who believe in him. You die a normal "human" death, but then live on in spirit form forever in heaven. That is the good news for Christians.

But what about people who lived/died before Jesus's time?

Too bad for them -- as well as the people who lived after Jesus but didn't hear about him. That's why the work of the missionaries was so important.

Really? I'm the PP with all the questions. Can that be right? The millions of people who all simply had the misfortune to live before Jesus was born miss out on this? Is the eternal life what is known as "heaven"? If you are not in heaven (including all the pre-Jesus people), are you in hell? If not, where?

Hi OP, no that's not right. You see, no one gets into until after the second coming of Jesus. That's when He collects all the deserving, both deceased and living by rapture, and takes them all to Heaven in one big group. Those who died without hearing Jesus' message will be judged on their merits. The rest of the people will go to hell, purgatory, or stay on Earth to live out their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a big question. So, Jesus came to die for humanity. What did the humanity do that it warranted such a sacrifice?
Considering that humanity as such has not been around for much before Jesus times, if you consider that Paleolithic and Mesolithic ear was nothing to write home about from the ethical or moral perspective, then we have really very short period of time from the time of first farming and first cities to Jesus time.. those few tribes and few nations with relatively few people who did what humans always did before and after Christ..
fought each other and tried to overtake the next people's lands and goods. Nothing really changed, still the same 2000 years after Christ.
Why was it so important that Jesus had to die on the cross and what it really change? If anything? As far as the people and kingdoms are concerned everything is exactly the same if not worse.

Op He had to die, go to Hell snd rise again to defeat death. Death = sin. We all have sin and thus are going to die. Jesus offers a way back to God, whom we are separated from due to our sin.

NP. I don’t understand this at all. What does it mean, “death=sin”? Surely we all die because we are human? Is the idea that otherwise we would all live forever? How does Jesus’s death help? (Not trying to be snarky, just taking opportunity to ask questions I’ve always wanted to)

I believe the thinking is that humans would live forever had Adam and Eve not eaten of the tree in the Garden of Eden. That sin is what made us human functionally, and because of that we are no longer good enough for the pure goodness of god. Before Jesus came people had to make regular animal sacrifices to stay “right” with god. But then Jesus came along and lived a perfect life without sin and was the new sacrifice for us all.

I get the logic behind it, as the story has been refined for thousands of years. I do, however, reject the premise.

Thanks but I still don't get it. When people were making animal sacrifices they still died. After Jesus came and went, everyone still dies. What did Jesus achieve?

For Christians, Jesus's death achieves ETERNAL life for all who believe in him. You die a normal "human" death, but then live on in spirit form forever in heaven. That is the good news for Christians.

But what about people who lived/died before Jesus's time?

Too bad for them -- as well as the people who lived after Jesus but didn't hear about him. That's why the work of the missionaries was so important.

Really? I'm the PP with all the questions. Can that be right? The millions of people who all simply had the misfortune to live before Jesus was born miss out on this? Is the eternal life what is known as "heaven"? If you are not in heaven (including all the pre-Jesus people), are you in hell? If not, where?

Hi OP, no that's not right. You see, no one gets into until after the second coming of Jesus. That's when He collects all the deserving, both deceased and living by rapture, and takes them all to Heaven in one big group. Those who died without hearing Jesus' message will be judged on their merits. The rest of the people will go to hell, purgatory, or stay on Earth to live out their lives.

I guess this includes all the people who lived before Jesus, and maybe people who live in remote parts of the world who haven't heard of Jesus. What about people like me who have heard of Jesus, but have not necessarily accepted his "message"? What if those people have lived very good lives?

[Anonymous]

This comment, on a NYT column, about the death of a child, seems relevant to this discussion:

“I can remember at a recent funeral, hearing the pastor go on about the Christian afterlife mythology, and thinking, "Why in the world would anyone find this stuff comforting? This God they believe in could have made us any way at all, and he chose to make us suffer and die so we could spend all eternity praising him for it -- if we don't spend it in eternal torment. " Not believing anything about an afterlife is far preferable to believing a horror story about an all-powerful cosmic narcissist.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/31/opinion/sunday/life-after-death.html#commentsContainer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This comment, on a NYT column, about the death of a child, seems relevant to this discussion:

“I can remember at a recent funeral, hearing the pastor go on about the Christian afterlife mythology, and thinking, "Why in the world would anyone find this stuff comforting? This God they believe in could have made us any way at all, and he chose to make us suffer and die so we could spend all eternity praising him for it -- if we don't spend it in eternal torment. " Not believing anything about an afterlife is far preferable to believing a horror story about an all-powerful cosmic narcissist.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/31/opinion/sunday/life-after-death.html#commentsContainer

Perhaps because we've been programmed to. But as religion recedes as a force in American society, that will change.