wondering what non-binary feels like

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find the entire concept as harmful, because it reinforces the idea that there’s a right way and a wrong way to be male or female. I have two X chromosomes, so therefore whatever I feel and however I view myself is a legitimate way to be female. I have a lot of traits that are often spoken about as being male ones, but that just means that that’s me. I’m still female.

Well said. I also think the whole idea of having to outwardly “identify” with some gender, or the absence of some gender, is troubling. I am all for everyone being who they are, but more labeling seems counterproductive to that goal. I don’t think this sort of thing existed when I was a kid...or did it? -mid 30s

I don't think it's troubling at all. It just shows that the "kids these days" are more thoroughly rejecting cultural stereotypes about gender than previous generations.

Now some of the discourse can get a little silly, and I agree that there is an inherent tension between rejecting arbitrarily assigned stereotypes on the one hand, and then embracing a single alternative "identity" on the other hand. But by and large, it just means that the old ways are ending.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find the entire concept as harmful, because it reinforces the idea that there’s a right way and a wrong way to be male or female. I have two X chromosomes, so therefore whatever I feel and however I view myself is a legitimate way to be female. I have a lot of traits that are often spoken about as being male ones, but that just means that that’s me. I’m still female.

Well said. I also think the whole idea of having to outwardly “identify” with some gender, or the absence of some gender, is troubling. I am all for everyone being who they are, but more labeling seems counterproductive to that goal. I don’t think this sort of thing existed when I was a kid...or did it? -mid 30s

I don't think it's troubling at all. It just shows that the "kids these days" are more thoroughly rejecting cultural stereotypes about gender than previous generations.

Now some of the discourse can get a little silly, and I agree that there is an inherent tension between rejecting arbitrarily assigned stereotypes on the one hand, and then embracing a single alternative "identity" on the other hand. But by and large, it just means that the old ways are ending.

If old stereotypes about gender are being rejected, then they're being replaced with new stereotypes. It's not necessarily a liberation if one set of lies is being replaced with another set of lies. Non-binarism is just another lie for people to indulge in and I'm not sure if it's a good thing. A "masculine" female is not non-binary, she's female. It's good that people have rejected old fashioned societal expectations for female behavior and attitudes (look, we were already doing this 30, 40 years ago, feminism has been around for the entirety of most people's lives today, so it's silly to think today's kids are more enlightened). But it's not good for old stereotypes to be replaced by new ones. Because non-binarism does bring about its own set of stereotypes. When you really get down to it, it's the same old stereotypes under a different name. 50 years ago they were called butch or tomboy. Today they call themselves non-binary. And like most of the butch/tomboy girls who grew up to be happily straight females, so will most of the teen non-binary people. So I don't see this as progress. Real progress was women rejecting the expectation to be housewives or other roles due to their genders. Frankly, I find it weird for youths to be complaining about oppressive gender roles in today's world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think it's troubling at all. It just shows that the "kids these days" are more thoroughly rejecting cultural stereotypes about gender than previous generations.

That's a bizarre perspective.

I'm a woman. Therefore any hobby, interest, talent, style, anything I do was appropriate for a girl, and is appropriate for a woman. That's rejecting stereotypes. There is no "boy" or "man" thing. There is only a thing, that anyone of any sex can be interested in or involved in.

Now kids are re-enforcing the old stereotypes. A girl is interested in "boy" things? Trans boy! A girl is interested in both "boy" and "girl" things? Non-binary! A girl is interested in "girl" things? Girl!

That's not rejecting cultural stereotypes. It's fully buying into them and defining who they are based around those stereotypes. To the point where my daughter who would have been a "tomboy" when I was a child is asked what her pronouns are and whether she's trans. Because clearly since she has "boy" interests and a "male" aesthetic, she can't be a girl.

When I was a kid? I could be a girl with my "boy" interests and "male" aesthetic ... because I was a girl. Seems like kids are today are being shoved backwards, not breaking stereotypes even further.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find the entire concept as harmful, because it reinforces the idea that there’s a right way and a wrong way to be male or female. I have two X chromosomes, so therefore whatever I feel and however I view myself is a legitimate way to be female. I have a lot of traits that are often spoken about as being male ones, but that just means that that’s me. I’m still female.

Well said. I also think the whole idea of having to outwardly “identify” with some gender, or the absence of some gender, is troubling. I am all for everyone being who they are, but more labeling seems counterproductive to that goal. I don’t think this sort of thing existed when I was a kid...or did it? -mid 30s

I don't think it's troubling at all. It just shows that the "kids these days" are more thoroughly rejecting cultural stereotypes about gender than previous generations.

Now some of the discourse can get a little silly, and I agree that there is an inherent tension between rejecting arbitrarily assigned stereotypes on the one hand, and then embracing a single alternative "identity" on the other hand. But by and large, it just means that the old ways are ending.

If old stereotypes about gender are being rejected, then they're being replaced with new stereotypes. It's not necessarily a liberation if one set of lies is being replaced with another set of lies. Non-binarism is just another lie for people to indulge in and I'm not sure if it's a good thing. A "masculine" female is not non-binary, she's female. It's good that people have rejected old fashioned societal expectations for female behavior and attitudes (look, we were already doing this 30, 40 years ago, feminism has been around for the entirety of most people's lives today, so it's silly to think today's kids are more enlightened). But it's not good for old stereotypes to be replaced by new ones. Because non-binarism does bring about its own set of stereotypes. When you really get down to it, it's the same old stereotypes under a different name. 50 years ago they were called butch or tomboy. Today they call themselves non-binary. And like most of the butch/tomboy girls who grew up to be happily straight females, so will most of the teen non-binary people. So I don't see this as progress. Real progress was women rejecting the expectation to be housewives or other roles due to their genders. Frankly, I find it weird for youths to be complaining about oppressive gender roles in today's world.

You seem far to concerned about how other people understand their own gender roles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think it's troubling at all. It just shows that the "kids these days" are more thoroughly rejecting cultural stereotypes about gender than previous generations.

That's a bizarre perspective.

I'm a woman. Therefore any hobby, interest, talent, style, anything I do was appropriate for a girl, and is appropriate for a woman. That's rejecting stereotypes. There is no "boy" or "man" thing. There is only a thing, that anyone of any sex can be interested in or involved in.

Now kids are re-enforcing the old stereotypes. A girl is interested in "boy" things? Trans boy! A girl is interested in both "boy" and "girl" things? Non-binary! A girl is interested in "girl" things? Girl!

That's not rejecting cultural stereotypes. It's fully buying into them and defining who they are based around those stereotypes. To the point where my daughter who would have been a "tomboy" when I was a child is asked what her pronouns are and whether she's trans. Because clearly since she has "boy" interests and a "male" aesthetic, she can't be a girl.

When I was a kid? I could be a girl with my "boy" interests and "male" aesthetic ... because I was a girl. Seems like kids are today are being shoved backwards, not breaking stereotypes even further.

Maybe your daughter will identify as trans or nonbinary. I see nothing wrong with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't think it's troubling at all. It just shows that the "kids these days" are more thoroughly rejecting cultural stereotypes about gender than previous generations.

That's a bizarre perspective.

I'm a woman. Therefore any hobby, interest, talent, style, anything I do was appropriate for a girl, and is appropriate for a woman. That's rejecting stereotypes. There is no "boy" or "man" thing. There is only a thing, that anyone of any sex can be interested in or involved in.

Now kids are re-enforcing the old stereotypes. A girl is interested in "boy" things? Trans boy! A girl is interested in both "boy" and "girl" things? Non-binary! A girl is interested in "girl" things? Girl!

That's not rejecting cultural stereotypes. It's fully buying into them and defining who they are based around those stereotypes. To the point where my daughter who would have been a "tomboy" when I was a child is asked what her pronouns are and whether she's trans. Because clearly since she has "boy" interests and a "male" aesthetic, she can't be a girl.

When I was a kid? I could be a girl with my "boy" interests and "male" aesthetic ... because I was a girl. Seems like kids are today are being shoved backwards, not breaking stereotypes even further.

Maybe your daughter will identify as trans or nonbinary. I see nothing wrong with that.

Maybe she will. And that's fine. But right now, she's not. And yet, she's asked if she is because of stereotypes and the reinvigorating of stereotypes the trans and non-binary trend has caused.

It's reinforcing old stereotypes, stereotypes that my 70's generation had fully rejected, that my daughter is asked if she's trans because she has "boy" interests and a "boy" aesthetic. That's the opposite of rejecting cultural stereotypes, as PP claimed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Non-binary is a figment of the imagination. There is no biological basis for it. Nor sexual basis.

Some people simply consider themselves non-binary for whatever reason and have convinced themselves that it's rooted into their psyche or biology. I will respect their decision to do so as part of their free-will, but I do not think much of it beyond an element of fantasy they are indulging in.

Exactly. Feel however you like because it’s all made up.