HS sophomore decision that may affect college acceptance

[Anonymous]

Listen to his teacher. He is going to need a firm foundation in math to have a prayer of making it in the college level courses.

If he is planning to take college physics he should take HS physics because that subject is a bear. Ask the Physics teacher and his math teacher about his readiness to take maybe the Physics 1 class (assuming it's Algebra based, not calc based). It's not like he has no Algebra 2 background at all and he might be able to take it concurrently with his repeat of Alg 2. It doesn't hurt to ask. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

In past years, Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth has offered a summer online Algebra II class if you are looking for something to reinforce the concepts he is weak in.

The dedication shown in doubling up on math this year could be a nice item to highlight in the teacher/counselor rec’s he sends to colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issue is whether your kid has a strong foundation to move to the next level of math, if that is a goal. First, you are way too involved with it. This should be your kid working it through with the head of the math program at the school.

Second, very few people know what they want to major in when they apply to college, much less, when they are a sophomore in high school.

It is all too much for a 15-16 year old to bear and if they are taking double math because you as a parent suggested it, you are likely doing more harm than good.

It's OP - I assure you that I did not suggest double math. This was fully his decision. He is also quite sure what his end goal is; a combination of computer science software design, business systems, informations systems, mobil app design and cyber security. Heading into junior year, the reality is that all kids are at the pivotal point of tests, stress, college. I agree it's become insane but it is what it is.

[Anonymous]

"Jeezus, when I saw the subject line I thought oh dear, what did this kid do? Commit a crime? DUI?"

Haha yes I see that now that you mention it - OP

"All of this stressing and worrying over a B? Granted it's not the most solid B, but if you're truly worried about DS's foundation for further math, you can hire a tutor over the summer to reinforce Algebra 2. Me thinks it's the (gasp!) B that's riling you more".

It's OP - it's more like a C- his teacher said that his work ethic is the best she's seen. He's not failing because his classwork and homework are always correct. For him, it's the cumulative tests that are crushing him. In DSs words, he gets the hardest concepts right and the easy concepts wrong. This leads his teacher to believe he doesn't have a grasp on the foundational stuff.

I am not stressed. Just trying to guide him. Believe me, we are a very relaxed family.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure if it is a firm requirement, but our school strongly recommends Pre-Calc as a co-requisite with AP Physics 1. My DS took it with honors pre-calc junior year and he said that the physics class actually helped him with some of the concepts in his math class.

Plenty of kids decide early on that they are set on STEM fields and stick with the plan. I assume that your DS has had a lot of exposure to CS outside of the classroom and knows what he wants. It makes sense that he would try to take calculus in high school when he's going to be competing for spots against kids with post-Calculus classes in high school. But there are schools and programs out there for kids who take pre-calc senior year, too.

It's unclear if he is getting an 80 for the fourth quarter or an 80 as his final grade in the class. Maybe he's never had a B before, but as the parent of students who have gotten Bs and even the occasional C, I can tell you that it doesn't mean that the kid didn't learn anything. My younger DC got Bs in honors pre-calc (including some pretty low test grades here and there) and thought Calc AB was an easier class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t consider an 80 “tanking” I think your perception of his “failure” his running off on him and putting unnecessary pressure.

+100
DCUM never disappoints.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Jeezus, when I saw the subject line I thought oh dear, what did this kid do? Commit a crime? DUI?"

Haha yes I see that now that you mention it - OP

"All of this stressing and worrying over a B? Granted it's not the most solid B, but if you're truly worried about DS's foundation for further math, you can hire a tutor over the summer to reinforce Algebra 2. Me thinks it's the (gasp!) B that's riling you more".

It's OP - it's more like a C- his teacher said that his work ethic is the best she's seen. He's not failing because his classwork and homework are always correct. For him, it's the cumulative tests that are crushing him. In DSs words, he gets the hardest concepts right and the easy concepts wrong. This leads his teacher to believe he doesn't have a grasp on the foundational stuff.

I am not stressed. Just trying to guide him. Believe me, we are a very relaxed family.

Can you ask his teacher to assess his areas of weakness? If this is a foundational issue and he is grasping the bigger concepts this should not be a gigantic problem to fix.

It's possible that somewhere along the line he was asleep at the wheel in math class or something for whatever reason didn't "click" for him and now that's coming back to haunt him. Until that is corrected, he's going to flounder a bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not making it to Calc doesn’t look good for any major, but especially for CS/Physics. Stay the course this year and rethink his course load for next year.

Ridiculous comment. Both my kids are strong humanities students and never bothered with Calculus because they had no desire to major in anything math or science related. Both were accepted to excellent colleges. It's a myth that you have to take Calc in high school, unless your future plans will require it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not making it to Calc doesn’t look good for any major, but especially for CS/Physics. Stay the course this year and rethink his course load for next year.

Most majors don't need anything close to Calc. I bet 90% of jobs don't even use any kind of advanced math. Please stop pressuring this kid, he will be fine, just like everyone else that sucks at math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not making it to Calc doesn’t look good for any major, but especially for CS/Physics. Stay the course this year and rethink his course load for next year.

This! This is the dilemma. He's put an entire year in. He took it as an elective to give himself a safety net. This is why teacher/counselor are showing flexibility to withdraw without it showing on transcript.

Frustrating since school only offers AP physics classes. Otherwise, I would absolutely suggest he only take standard physics.

[Anonymous]

"In DSs words, he gets the hardest concepts right and the easy concepts wrong. This leads his teacher to believe he doesn't have a grasp on the foundational stuff."

Which HS are we talking about? We don't really need to know the answer but

I ask because in MCPS the overlap between Geometry and Alg II is much greater than it was back when I was in HS.

In talking with his teachers, you want to understand the relationship of the "easy" concepts in terms of timing between Geometry and Alg II.

If he is learning the "easy" part in geometry a month after he needs it in Alg II, then most all of his issues will be fine.

Good luck

[Anonymous]

"Most majors don't need anything close to Calc. I bet 90% of jobs don't even use any kind of advanced math. Please stop pressuring this kid, he will be fine, just like everyone else that sucks at math."

The majors the DC is interested in need Calc.

From all the information we have, no one is pressuring anyone.

Many more people "hate math" than actually "suck at math".

Hating math is a choice, sucking at math is innate.

This DC doesn't hate math so trying to label him as "sucks at math" because he had trouble this year trying to do double math just makes no sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure if it is a firm requirement, but our school strongly recommends Pre-Calc as a co-requisite with AP Physics 1. My DS took it with honors pre-calc junior year and he said that the physics class actually helped him with some of the concepts in his math class.

Plenty of kids decide early on that they are set on STEM fields and stick with the plan. I assume that your DS has had a lot of exposure to CS outside of the classroom and knows what he wants. It makes sense that he would try to take calculus in high school when he's going to be competing for spots against kids with post-Calculus classes in high school. But there are schools and programs out there for kids who take pre-calc senior year, too.

It's unclear if he is getting an 80 for the fourth quarter or an 80 as his final grade in the class. Maybe he's never had a B before, but as the parent of students who have gotten Bs and even the occasional C, I can tell you that it doesn't mean that the kid didn't learn anything. My younger DC got Bs in honors pre-calc (including some pretty low test grades here and there) and thought Calc AB was an easier class.

The co-requisite of Pre-calc is indicative of a certain mastery of Algebra 2. The question is, does he have enough of a basis in Algebra 2 to do well in the AP Physics 1 class.

My own kid did not take Pre-calc concurrently with algebra based Physics. But he was an algebra guy and the math part for him of the Physics class was not that hard or all that complicated (for him). What he was lacking was a foundation in Trig (he took non honors Alg 2). He was able to pick up what he needed in Trig as he went through the Physics class. I think he found the concepts in Physics and the application of the concepts to be more of a challenge than the actual math was. What he learned in physics really helped him to do well in pre-cal and General Chem the next year.

Long story short, he went on to get accepted as a STEM major in college even w/o Calc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"In DSs words, he gets the hardest concepts right and the easy concepts wrong. This leads his teacher to believe he doesn't have a grasp on the foundational stuff."

Which HS are we talking about? We don't really need to know the answer but

I ask because in MCPS the overlap between Geometry and Alg II is much greater than it was back when I was in HS.

In talking with his teachers, you want to understand the relationship of the "easy" concepts in terms of timing between Geometry and Alg II.

If he is learning the "easy" part in geometry a month after he needs it in Alg II, then most all of his issues will be fine. Good luck

It's OP- great point. DS in NY public HS. He is taking Alg 2 and Geometry this year. His overall avg in Geo will be low 90. Assuming the overlap is same as your MCPS, does it mean anything that he's managing well in Geo? He was strong in Alg 1 last year and was a peer tutor for that class.

[Anonymous]

"DS, however, is absolutely sure that CS, info/data systems, business systems and security are his path."

DC may understand this but the OP should hear it too, in case they are not a STEM grad themselves and/or DC doesn't.

OP, you don't want to point this out to DC right now. He won't benefit from the information in HS but knowing it should help you steer him without pushing him into a swamp he can't work through.

The subjects on the list do not describe a single path. Additionally, there are many levels of college and university for each of those paths.

To do a CS major at a top CS school like Carnegie Mellon is really hard and most likely DC's C this year in Alg II rules a path like that out.

Luckily, even a top school like Carnegie has at least two other paths that are possible from your list.

I would suggest that neither a info/data system degree or a business systems type program at Carnegie would be ruled out by the C in Alg II even though DC would certainly need Calc as a senior to get into either.

Then there are intermediate/strong level schools from UMdCP to GMU to UMBC where DC could do any of the programs but would need calc as a senior.

If calc as a senior is not possible or is just too much of a grind, then at schools like GMU or UMBC info/data systems or business systems type programs would be matches with the rest of DC's record.

Then there are a host of "solid" schools that offer an array of programs similar in name to those already mentioned. These "solid" schools have a variety of students from quite strong taking advantage of merit aid to somewhat weak but improving.

At these schools the true variety of paths in these areas shines through. While they pretty much don't offer the beyond "graduate" level courses that Carnegie specializes in offering their undergrad in CS, students can still get a degree that is called CS.

They offer many watered down courses (compared to say MIT) that allow students to mix and match all possible business and computer related programs all of which are highly employable by average companies.

At these average companies they wouldn't even know what a Carnegie CS grad was even talking about. Similarly, the Googles of the world would never recruit at a "solid" school.

I bothered to type all that out OP because it means that your DC WILL find his place among the paths you list. All he needs is to keep trying at what interests him. It really doesn't matter whether any particular effort succeeds or fails, grade wise.

If DC isn't happy with his understanding, he should just take the class over. Eventually a company will pay him for what he understands, they won't care how long or how many tries it took him to get there.