Gifted kid did not get through AAP - HELP please

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Inwillsubmit a parent letter this time.. last time we did not submit any letter (just the questionnaire and referral form).we did not know we could even submit a cover letter, but this we were told by his teacher to explain how he can eup with those samples (situation) and what made him think like that

Based on your posts, I'm not sure that's going to have the desired effect.

[Anonymous]

Then send him to private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Inwillsubmit a parent letter this time.. last time we did not submit any letter (just the questionnaire and referral form).we did not know we could even submit a cover letter, but this we were told by his teacher to explain how he can eup with those samples (situation) and what made him think like that

Based on your posts, I'm not sure that's going to have the desired effect.

This. You don’t see your child clearly. You just don’t. I’m a former teacher. I was once hounded by a parent asking me to write a letter of recommendation for a former student (after I’d stopped teaching). The parent sounded just like you: send me a computer file of a song the child wrote, composed and sang. It was awful. Told me how the child was doing this or that amazing thing - in The Nutcracker at the Kennedy Center, was bored at school, would make up problems and could do math beyond her years. She told me the current second grade teacher said the kid belonged in aap. I didn’t write the letter because not only would I not do it for anyone as a former teacher in the county, but I personally didn’t think this child was gifted from my interactions with her. Last year I ran into the second grade teacher at a meeting and she said she did not tell the family the child belonged in the program. She said she encouraged them to apply and correctly wrote positive gbrs comments but that she said she never told them their child was gifted, smarter than others, etc.

[Anonymous]

Can you give us specific examples of what you submitted that was extremely difficult for what a normal 2nd grader would do?

[Anonymous]

"This. You don’t see your child clearly. You just don’t. I’m a former teacher. I was once hounded by a parent asking me to write a letter of recommendation for a former student (after I’d stopped teaching). The parent sounded just like you: send me a computer file of a song the child wrote, composed and sang. It was awful. Told me how the child was doing this or that amazing thing - in The Nutcracker at the Kennedy Center, was bored at school, would make up problems and could do math beyond her years. She told me the current second grade teacher said the kid belonged in aap. I didn’t write the letter because not only would I not do it for anyone as a former teacher in the county, but I personally didn’t think this child was gifted from my interactions with her. Last year I ran into the second grade teacher at a meeting and she said she did not tell the family the child belonged in the program. She said she encouraged them to apply and correctly wrote positive gbrs comments but that she said she never told them their child was gifted, smarter than others, etc."

You are correct that parents don't see their kids clearly. Then what often happens is the parent's pushing turns their DC's teachers against the entire family and a mess ensues. Communication can fix this.

There is "no doubt" this child is gifted, even with a 50% parent filter. DC's teacher admits this. Being gifted should in no way necessarily mean that they are a good fit for any particular advanced school program.

Fit is what the screening process tests, not the potential of the child.

The problem is that teachers/administrators haven't yet been able to convey to these parents that what is currently happening, lots of supplementing at home, is BY FAR the best thing for this child.

If the advanced program is going to consist of lots of work where the DC has to use their weakest skills, this is a bad fit and will create a bigger mess.

OP, open your mind, and continue supporting your DC. You already have already found what you need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"This. You don’t see your child clearly. You just don’t. I’m a former teacher. I was once hounded by a parent asking me to write a letter of recommendation for a former student (after I’d stopped teaching). The parent sounded just like you: send me a computer file of a song the child wrote, composed and sang. It was awful. Told me how the child was doing this or that amazing thing - in The Nutcracker at the Kennedy Center, was bored at school, would make up problems and could do math beyond her years. She told me the current second grade teacher said the kid belonged in aap. I didn’t write the letter because not only would I not do it for anyone as a former teacher in the county, but I personally didn’t think this child was gifted from my interactions with her. Last year I ran into the second grade teacher at a meeting and she said she did not tell the family the child belonged in the program. She said she encouraged them to apply and correctly wrote positive gbrs comments but that she said she never told them their child was gifted, smarter than others, etc."

You are correct that parents don't see their kids clearly. Then what often happens is the parent's pushing turns their DC's teachers against the entire family and a mess ensues. Communication can fix this.

There is "no doubt" this child is gifted, even with a 50% parent filter. DC's teacher admits this. Being gifted should in no way necessarily mean that they are a good fit for any particular advanced school program.

Fit is what the screening process tests, not the potential of the child.

The problem is that teachers/administrators haven't yet been able to convey to these parents that what is currently happening, lots of supplementing at home, is BY FAR the best thing for this child.

If the advanced program is going to consist of lots of work where the DC has to use their weakest skills, this is a bad fit and will create a bigger mess.

OP, open your mind, and continue supporting your DC. You already have already found what you need.

Sigh. With those scores he will likely get in on appeal. But...you don’t know if this kid is gifted.

[Anonymous]

No parent sees his or her child clearly. But that doesn't matter. The kid's NNAT and CogAT scores are well above a threshold that could be explained by prepping. With scores that high, the kid should be in no matter what the teacher thinks of him or how bad the school work samples are. If the panel is so worried about "fit", a kid who is like 99.9th percentile on both CogAT and NNAT is going to be a much better fit in AAP than in gen ed, no matter what the individual kid's strengths and weaknesses are.

[Anonymous]

Hate to say it, but his package likely came across as that of a really prepped kid. I would definitely recommend submitting a WISC (from GMU), along with different samples from school that showcases his strengths. I would absolutely not submit any more material from home, as it likely will make the whole thing seem more suspicious.

FWIW, my daughter, when she was in 2nd grade, was doing pretty much everything you mentioned your child doing (multiplication of large numbers, long division, fractions, Elementary algebra, Fibonacci series, fractions, exponents, etc.), but it’s basically because she is a curious and hard working kid who always wants to explore concepts older kids are working on, and not because she’s any kind of extra special snowflake.

I will give you an example of a child I consider gifted in math (friend’s daughter). When she was 3 or 4, she asked her mom from the back seat of the car, what the sum of all the numbers from 1-10 was. Mom said she didn’t know, but they can figure it out after they got home. A short while later, she announced, 55! Mom was surprised and asked her how she did it, and she said that she just added 1 and 9, and 2 and 8, and so on. That is pretty advanced thinking. Said little girl ended up getting grade skipped, which FCPS very, very much does not want to do.

[Anonymous]

"Sigh. With those scores he will likely get in on appeal. But...you don’t know if this kid is gifted."

They are in the 2nd grade. No one knows if they are gifted whether they get in or not.

I stand behind the idea that not passing the screening means DC doesn't belong in the program because of "fit".

I also stand behind the idea that what the OP is doing is helping their DC develop what they are good at in a way that the program never would.

[Anonymous]

I think I originally said letter from home but now I agree with the others and nothing else from home.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all your comments. When teachers in every parent teacher meet say he is extremely advanced for his age, and when they write that even in the GBRS comments, especially in the highlighted skills of math science and social studies, parents will think their kid is advanced. Further when some coaches for STEM or even activities like Music, singing say he amazes them, parents make conclusions and sometimes you never realize your kids and only know when others tell you.

We are awaiting his WISC scores,the report. But the meeting after the test, the psychologist said, “his thinking and application skills is excellent, his factual reasoning is very high and sometimes those kids with high factual skills fair less on verbal creative writing”.

Anyway, whoever is just making assumptions on our kids, please stop. I am not defending any parent here, If you have a suggestion, pls do, we also struggle as a parent, and it hurts when your kid says it is boring at school, they only tell you about solid liquid gases, and I want to experiment on it, I want to ask my teacher why we can’t hold gas but can hold ice cube, but all other kids scream, and my teacher can’t answer me and just ask me to write this. We are looking for ways, when we think our child is gifted, it is not because we assume, because we are told continuously by people, coaches, teachers we meet that they are so. when we look at our kids, we look at them without any adjectives. And adjectives are added genuinely by people who mentor them and we learn a lot about our kids from them and also on our interaction.

So pls do help parents when they are in unique situations rather than judging that parent just think kids are gifted.

[Anonymous]

"No parent sees his or her child clearly. But that doesn't matter. The kid's NNAT and CogAT scores are well above a threshold that could be explained by prepping. With scores that high, the kid should be in no matter what the teacher thinks of him or how bad the school work samples are. If the panel is so worried about "fit", a kid who is like 99.9th percentile on both CogAT and NNAT is going to be a much better fit in AAP than in gen ed, no matter what the individual kid's strengths and weaknesses are."

Do you believe that prepping helps the same amount in 2nd grade that it helps in 11th?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for all your comments. When teachers in every parent teacher meet say he is extremely advanced for his age, and when they write that even in the GBRS comments, especially in the highlighted skills of math science and social studies, parents will think their kid is advanced. Further when some coaches for STEM or even activities like Music, singing say he amazes them, parents make conclusions and sometimes you never realize your kids and only know when others tell you.

We are awaiting his WISC scores,the report. But the meeting after the test, the psychologist said, “his thinking and application skills is excellent, his factual reasoning is very high and sometimes those kids with high factual skills fair less on verbal creative writing”.

Anyway, whoever is just making assumptions on our kids, please stop. I am not defending any parent here, If you have a suggestion, pls do, we also struggle as a parent, and it hurts when your kid says it is boring at school, they only tell you about solid liquid gases, and I want to experiment on it, I want to ask my teacher why we can’t hold gas but can hold ice cube, but all other kids scream, and my teacher can’t answer me and just ask me to write this. We are looking for ways, when we think our child is gifted, it is not because we assume, because we are told continuously by people, coaches, teachers we meet that they are so. when we look at our kids, we look at them without any adjectives. And adjectives are added genuinely by people who mentor them and we learn a lot about our kids from them and also on our interaction.

So pls do help parents when they are in unique situations rather than judging that parent just think kids are gifted.

Are you an Asian family, by chance?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Sigh. With those scores he will likely get in on appeal. But...you don’t know if this kid is gifted."

They are in the 2nd grade. No one knows if they are gifted whether they get in or not.

I stand behind the idea that not passing the screening means DC doesn't belong in the program because of "fit".

I also stand behind the idea that what the OP is doing is helping their DC develop what they are good at in a way that the program never would.

You are placing an undue amount of faith in the screening process. There's no way that 5 minutes of reviewing a file without actually meeting or interacting with the kid in any way can tell committee members whether the child is a good "fit" for AAP. Also, AAP has quite a few kids with Autism who are even more factually and literally minded than OP's kid. They're doing fine in AAP but struggle with some of the creative sides, too. Do you think those kids should be excluded?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"No parent sees his or her child clearly. But that doesn't matter. The kid's NNAT and CogAT scores are well above a threshold that could be explained by prepping. With scores that high, the kid should be in no matter what the teacher thinks of him or how bad the school work samples are. If the panel is so worried about "fit", a kid who is like 99.9th percentile on both CogAT and NNAT is going to be a much better fit in AAP than in gen ed, no matter what the individual kid's strengths and weaknesses are."

Do you believe that prepping helps the same amount in 2nd grade that it helps in 11th?

I think you can gain 10-15 points max with prepping. So, in the absolute worst case, OP's kid's "true" scores would be around a 145 NNAT and a 128 CogAT. These are still well within the range of AAP eligibility. A CogAT of 143 is the 99th percentile *locally*. If it were that easy to prep kids to 140+ CogAT scores, we'd be seeing a lot more of them.