Spin-off: test prep for CES?

[Anonymous]

So.

I know all about it

The Cogat is an aptitude test, meaning that it's not supposed to be "preparable".
You can buy Cogat prep books on Amazon.
I know plenty of parents who buy them and work on them with their children, and most do not get in. I bough two of them for my kids, one of whom did not get in. That's because there was a difference in cognitive skills and executive functioning between the two of them from the very beginning, that any amount of preparation could not change.

The one great thing Cogat workbooks do, and the reason I highly recommend them, is that they are inexpensive and familiarize your child with the test, to ensure they are confident and not anxious the day of the test. As you know, anxiety decreases test-taking abilities.
IF a student is at the cusp between wait-list and acceptance, one point gained because of that preparation MAY get them over the threshold. For most students, if won't make a difference one way or the other because very few students will be at that cusp, and you can't predict in advance whether they will be... unless you say, all students who score above the 95th percentile on their MAPs might benefit from a Cogat workbook, just in case.

Please never spend your money on entire Cogat courses and tutoring! Unlike achievement tests like the SAT, the Cogat cannot be prepared to that extent, like I just write above. You'll be wasting your money.

[Anonymous]

08:45 again.

MCPS considers grades, previous enrichment, second grade Inview GT identification as well as MAP scores.

Since the CES is a humanities-focused program, I suspect they consider MAP-R more than MAP-M. The way to get a high MAP-R score is to READ A LOT (preferably books at a higher grade level). The way to get a high MAP-M score is to work ahead in the math curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:08:45 again.

MCPS considers grades, previous enrichment, second grade Inview GT identification as well as MAP scores.

Since the CES is a humanities-focused program, I suspect they consider MAP-R more than MAP-M. The way to get a high MAP-R score is to READ A LOT (preferably books at a higher grade level). The way to get a high MAP-M score is to work ahead in the math curriculum.

In years past, there were posts from parents whose children got into CES with 205 MAP-M and 235 MAP-R so I suspect you are right about this.

[Anonymous]

The reality is that a high percentage of the children admitted do prep, even if they already have IQ scores that support admission. IMHO not prepping for the CES admission is like not prepping for the SAT. Your child may do fine without prep, but DC will be going up against people who have prepped.

Even if you believe that they can't prep for the COGAT itself, most children can benefit from learning test-taking skills.

[Anonymous]

You have no idea what you're talking about. I know of no one who prepped and got in. There were a number of wealthy, well educated families at our school who did buy the books and familiarize their kids with the test but none of those kids got in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You have no idea what you're talking about. I know of no one who prepped and got in. There were a number of wealthy, well educated families at our school who did buy the books and familiarize their kids with the test but none of those kids got in.

08:45 here again. I've been around the block.
I bought those books, and one of my children went to CES.
I know of others.

Again, if you can do something inexpensive and low-key to help your child, please do so. It's also important to remember that skills take years to develop, and that reading comprehension and math understanding is key for academic success, whether it's magnets or advanced classes (compacted math in elementary, then advanced math track and language electives in middle school, then all the AP classes in high school). So you should be encouraging reading at a high level and exposure to all kinds of math throughout elementary, and that doesn't have to cost anything, you can use the library and play math in the house. In late elementary and middle school, you need to switch gears and pay attention to their writing skills and organizational skills, as the school focus changes to more writing, and more independence for managing daily homework and long-term projects. Writing is the hardest of all the skills a student needs to master, because it requires so much multitasking, although we adults don't even realize it, and many students cannot just get by with the MCPS way of teaching writing, so if you want to spend money somewhere, you might want to save it for a writing workshop, or a writing tutor in middle school. And then there'll be SAT prep. If you do that, they'll be on the right path for college, magnet or not.

[Anonymous]

Are you OP? Why are you posting again?

[Anonymous]

My child was accepted this year. We did no test prep and really did not anticipate he would get into CES. At the end of second grade we received a letter with the Inview scores indicating that our child was NOT gifted. I’m actually worried to tell anyone because I recall several parents with 3rd graders last year talking about how all the accepted kids had test prep and the parents were relentless advocates. That could not be further from the case for us. We did nothing, my kid did nothing and the school tested him.

[Anonymous]

Congratulations, PP. Don't worry about the rumors. Someone said that about my child and I laughed because I work full time, and don't have time to think about that stuff.

I heard another parent lobbied hard with the school and did a lot of volunteer work which is why her child got in. Not the way it works, folks.

[Anonymous]

Accepted, no test prep, and it's not really a thing. There's a lot of racism and misunderstanding on this board from insecure parents looking to blame something or someone for their child not getting in. The afternoon or Saturday classes are enrichment so they will do extra math and extra writing packets just like many many parents do at home. And believe me I know a ton of parents who roll their eyes at these Chinese programs but they have books upon books at home and even demand that teachers let their kids do enrichment workbooks at school because their kids are so "bored." There is not much difference in these two approaches, except many of the parents who sent their kids to these after school programs are first-generation immigrants and may not have the same background to be able to do the enrichment at home.

Some of these providers do give a limited amount of standardized testing overview like how to guess on questions that are multiple choice, but you cannot prep for an IQ test which is what Cogat is. You can familiarize yourself with the format of the questions but that's about it. My child said that when they took the Cogat screener test a large number of kids -- all white kids, FWIW -- came out saying they were surprised it was only however many sections it was instead of having more sections and why weren't those sections included. Obviously they had done some test "prep" at home but their parents would never call it that.

Excellent post. I'll add though that while you can't "prep" for an IQ test you can improve your IQ over time. Your IQ changes over time and kids who spend more time exercising their mental skills can boost their overall IQ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the main CES acceptance letter thread, there is mention of kids undergoing prep courses for the Cogat. Is this really s thing? If your kid was accepted into CES, did they take a prep course or other study in an attempt to score well
on the cogat?

My son was accepted with MCPS 95%, National 99%. No test prep.

Accepted, no test prep, and it's not really a thing. There's a lot of racism and misunderstanding on this board from insecure parents looking to blame something or someone for their child not getting in. The afternoon or Saturday classes are enrichment so they will do extra math and extra writing packets just like many many parents do at home. And believe me I know a ton of parents who roll their eyes at these Chinese programs but they have books upon books at home and even demand that teachers let their kids do enrichment workbooks at school because their kids are so "bored." There is not much difference in these two approaches, except many of the parents who sent their kids to these after school programs are first-generation immigrants and may not have the same background to be able to do the enrichment at home.

Some of these providers do give a limited amount of standardized testing overview like how to guess on questions that are multiple choice, but you cannot prep for an IQ test which is what Cogat is. You can familiarize yourself with the format of the questions but that's about it. My child said that when they took the Cogat screener test a large number of kids -- all white kids, FWIW -- came out saying they were surprised it was only however many sections it was instead of having more sections and why weren't those sections included. Obviously they had done some test "prep" at home but their parents would never call it that.

It has definitely been a thing in the past. There were whole courses for the testing for HGC, middle and HS magnet tests by several companies. You seem to be drawing attention to the fact that many of the preppers were Asian? That's the only thing I can think of when you start spewing about "racism." Well, they were. My kid at TPES saw lots of kids carrying A++ test prep books throughout Fall of 8th grade -- they had weekly classes and period mock tests. They's complain about being up past midnight to get it all done. And, yes, they ones my kid knew happened to all be Asian.

I don't know if the test changes have changed any prepping, but I'll bet it's still going on. Also, a specialized class towards prepping for a specific test is a lot different than reading with your kid or doing some math problems together.

[Anonymous]

^^^TPMS, not TPES. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the main CES acceptance letter thread, there is mention of kids undergoing prep courses for the Cogat. Is this really s thing? If your kid was accepted into CES, did they take a prep course or other study in an attempt to score well
on the cogat?

My son was accepted with MCPS 95%, National 99%. No test prep.

Accepted, no test prep, and it's not really a thing. There's a lot of racism and misunderstanding on this board from insecure parents looking to blame something or someone for their child not getting in. The afternoon or Saturday classes are enrichment so they will do extra math and extra writing packets just like many many parents do at home. And believe me I know a ton of parents who roll their eyes at these Chinese programs but they have books upon books at home and even demand that teachers let their kids do enrichment workbooks at school because their kids are so "bored." There is not much difference in these two approaches, except many of the parents who sent their kids to these after school programs are first-generation immigrants and may not have the same background to be able to do the enrichment at home.

Some of these providers do give a limited amount of standardized testing overview like how to guess on questions that are multiple choice, but you cannot prep for an IQ test which is what Cogat is. You can familiarize yourself with the format of the questions but that's about it. My child said that when they took the Cogat screener test a large number of kids -- all white kids, FWIW -- came out saying they were surprised it was only however many sections it was instead of having more sections and why weren't those sections included. Obviously they had done some test "prep" at home but their parents would never call it that.

It has definitely been a thing in the past. There were whole courses for the testing for HGC, middle and HS magnet tests by several companies. You seem to be drawing attention to the fact that many of the preppers were Asian? That's the only thing I can think of when you start spewing about "racism." Well, they were. My kid at TPES saw lots of kids carrying A++ test prep books throughout Fall of 8th grade -- they had weekly classes and period mock tests. They's complain about being up past midnight to get it all done. And, yes, they ones my kid knew happened to all be Asian.

I don't know if the test changes have changed any prepping, but I'll bet it's still going on. Also, a specialized class towards prepping for a specific test is a lot different than reading with your kid or doing some math problems together.[/quote]

You really believe in these "classes" they teach you useful "tactics"? I sort of knew that was not the case but to be safe I still sent DC to one of the classes during summer. It turns out that they were no different than reading with your kid or doing some math problems together.

You see many Asians doing that just because: (1) Asian parents tell each other about these things (2) many Asian parents were not really confident about themselves making the right decisions (as immigrants who may not know everything about this country) so sometimes they resort to these schools/classes to help their kids.


I prepared with DC on the high school magnet CoGAT and did the problems together. Did not send DC to any classes for those, and I believe some prep for the CoGAT is useful for getting the children used to the type of problems. But no extensive prep is really needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the main CES acceptance letter thread, there is mention of kids undergoing prep courses for the Cogat. Is this really s thing? If your kid was accepted into CES, did they take a prep course or other study in an attempt to score well
on the cogat?

My son was accepted with MCPS 95%, National 99%. No test prep.

Accepted, no test prep, and it's not really a thing. There's a lot of racism and misunderstanding on this board from insecure parents looking to blame something or someone for their child not getting in. The afternoon or Saturday classes are enrichment so they will do extra math and extra writing packets just like many many parents do at home. And believe me I know a ton of parents who roll their eyes at these Chinese programs but they have books upon books at home and even demand that teachers let their kids do enrichment workbooks at school because their kids are so "bored." There is not much difference in these two approaches, except many of the parents who sent their kids to these after school programs are first-generation immigrants and may not have the same background to be able to do the enrichment at home.

Some of these providers do give a limited amount of standardized testing overview like how to guess on questions that are multiple choice, but you cannot prep for an IQ test which is what Cogat is. You can familiarize yourself with the format of the questions but that's about it. My child said that when they took the Cogat screener test a large number of kids -- all white kids, FWIW -- came out saying they were surprised it was only however many sections it was instead of having more sections and why weren't those sections included. Obviously they had done some test "prep" at home but their parents would never call it that.

It has definitely been a thing in the past. There were whole courses for the testing for HGC, middle and HS magnet tests by several companies. You seem to be drawing attention to the fact that many of the preppers were Asian? That's the only thing I can think of when you start spewing about "racism." Well, they were. My kid at TPES saw lots of kids carrying A++ test prep books throughout Fall of 8th grade -- they had weekly classes and period mock tests. They's complain about being up past midnight to get it all done. And, yes, they ones my kid knew happened to all be Asian.

I don't know if the test changes have changed any prepping, but I'll bet it's still going on. Also, a specialized class towards prepping for a specific test is a lot different than reading with your kid or doing some math problems together.

You really believe in these "classes" they teach you useful "tactics"? I sort of knew that was not the case but to be safe I still sent DC to one of the classes during summer. It turns out that they were no different than reading with your kid or doing some math problems together.

You see many Asians doing that just because: (1) Asian parents tell each other about these things (2) many Asian parents were not really confident about themselves making the right decisions (as immigrants who may not know everything about this country) so sometimes they resort to these schools/classes to help their kids.


I prepared with DC on the high school magnet CoGAT and did the problems together. Did not send DC to any classes for those, and I believe some prep for the CoGAT is useful for getting the children used to the type of problems. But no extensive prep is really needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the main CES acceptance letter thread, there is mention of kids undergoing prep courses for the Cogat. Is this really s thing? If your kid was accepted into CES, did they take a prep course or other study in an attempt to score well
on the cogat?

My son was accepted with MCPS 95%, National 99%. No test prep.

Accepted, no test prep, and it's not really a thing. There's a lot of racism and misunderstanding on this board from insecure parents looking to blame something or someone for their child not getting in. The afternoon or Saturday classes are enrichment so they will do extra math and extra writing packets just like many many parents do at home. And believe me I know a ton of parents who roll their eyes at these Chinese programs but they have books upon books at home and even demand that teachers let their kids do enrichment workbooks at school because their kids are so "bored." There is not much difference in these two approaches, except many of the parents who sent their kids to these after school programs are first-generation immigrants and may not have the same background to be able to do the enrichment at home.

Some of these providers do give a limited amount of standardized testing overview like how to guess on questions that are multiple choice, but you cannot prep for an IQ test which is what Cogat is. You can familiarize yourself with the format of the questions but that's about it. My child said that when they took the Cogat screener test a large number of kids -- all white kids, FWIW -- came out saying they were surprised it was only however many sections it was instead of having more sections and why weren't those sections included. Obviously they had done some test "prep" at home but their parents would never call it that.

It has definitely been a thing in the past. There were whole courses for the testing for HGC, middle and HS magnet tests by several companies. You seem to be drawing attention to the fact that many of the preppers were Asian? That's the only thing I can think of when you start spewing about "racism." Well, they were. My kid at TPES saw lots of kids carrying A++ test prep books throughout Fall of 8th grade -- they had weekly classes and period mock tests. They's complain about being up past midnight to get it all done. And, yes, they ones my kid knew happened to all be Asian.

I don't know if the test changes have changed any prepping, but I'll bet it's still going on. Also, a specialized class towards prepping for a specific test is a lot different than reading with your kid or doing some math problems together.

You really believe in these "classes" they teach you useful "tactics"? I sort of knew that was not the case but to be safe I still sent DC to one of the classes during summer. It turns out that they were no different than reading with your kid or doing some math problems together.

You see many Asians doing that just because: (1) Asian parents tell each other about these things (2) many Asian parents were not really confident about themselves making the right decisions (as immigrants who may not know everything about this country) so sometimes they resort to these schools/classes to help their kids.


I prepared with DC on the high school magnet CoGAT and did the problems together. Did not send DC to any classes for those, and I believe some prep for the CoGAT is useful for getting the children used to the type of problems. But no extensive prep is really needed.

Yes, occasional home prep is totally different from systematic prep. I don't really see any lack of confidence in Asian parents. Not sure where this is coming from. I think culturally, immigrants (I am the daughter of an immigrant and know this first hand) are more driven to get ahead and make sure their kids achieve. Asian culture also stresses hard work. The result is lots of enrichment, lots of test prep, lots of music lessons/practice. I get it. But, regardless of where it comes from, the test prep/enrichment is a thing, and it affects scores.