ARE elite colleges worth all the stress and striving and scandal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No they’re not.

My workplace is filled with people who went to all sorts of colleges. Everywhere from Harvard and Yale to Baylor to Albion College. We all got to the same place, doing the same job.

I’m not saying going to a community college is the same as going to MIT, but freaking out if you don’t get into an Ivy League school is absolutely asinine.

Is anybody in your workplace in the 0.01%? Because that is the dream, the fantasy. These parents are hoping for something more than just a steady job with a good salary and a home in Silver Spring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Elite colleges have gotten a black eye this past week or so, but it basically confirms what many people already assumed: Money talks.

Really, that is your takeaway?

It's a basic law of economics: artificial scarcity creates black markets and corruption. Whether you are talking about college seats, substance prohibition, or rations during wartime.

[Anonymous]

I just hope this scandal reminds hiring managers and graduate school admissions reps everywhere: don't be too impressed if an applicant comes from an Ivy League school. They might have come through the front door, but they might have come through the back door, as a legacy, big donor, or athlete.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just hope this scandal reminds hiring managers and graduate school admissions reps everywhere: don't be too impressed if an applicant comes from an Ivy League school. They might have come through the front door, but they might have come through the back door, as a legacy, big donor, or athlete.

Don't employers already know this? Can't they tell based on the transcript of grades?

[Anonymous]

If you earn $150K or less, the elite colleges are extremely generous with financial aid...may turn out to be your kid's cheapest option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just hope this scandal reminds hiring managers and graduate school admissions reps everywhere: don't be too impressed if an applicant comes from an Ivy League school. They might have come through the front door, but they might have come through the back door, as a legacy, big donor, or athlete.

Don't employers already know this? Can't they tell based on the transcript of grades?

Because of rampant grade inflation and the desire for higher graduation rates, they may not be able to tell. I have no doubt that Lori Loughlin's air-headed daughters would have gotten degrees from USC, despite being, well, airheads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just hope this scandal reminds hiring managers and graduate school admissions reps everywhere: don't be too impressed if an applicant comes from an Ivy League school. They might have come through the front door, but they might have come through the back door, as a legacy, big donor, or athlete.

Don't employers already know this? Can't they tell based on the transcript of grades?

Because of rampant grade inflation and the desire for higher graduation rates, they may not be able to tell. I have no doubt that Lori Loughlin's air-headed daughters would have gotten degrees from USC, despite being, well, airheads.

Many employers don’t even look at grades. The school and its brand/reputation resonate more w/ employers. Undergraduate grades are more important for grad school.

[Anonymous]

Simple: Elite people want to stay elite. One way to ensure that is to educate your kids. It is not about being "rich" or bragging rights. It's about survival over and maintaining/growing principal from one generation to the next. People are also concerned about future generations, their opportunities and education. Without a doubt you can make a nice salary going to any college. That is not the hope of most ivey parents... then you should do merit aid or a state flagship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you earn $150K or less, the elite colleges are extremely generous with financial aid...may turn out to be your kid's cheapest option.

This.

People are overlooking the cost of college.

It’s a big reason why people put so much stress on their children, so they can get some sort of merit aid OR get into a flagship. I’m in Ca. My kids will have to BUST their butts to get into a UC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Simple: Elite people want to stay elite. One way to ensure that is to educate your kids. It is not about being "rich" or bragging rights. It's about survival over and maintaining/growing principal from one generation to the next. People are also concerned about future generations, their opportunities and education. Without a doubt you can make a nice salary going to any college. That is not the hope of most ivey parents... then you should do merit aid or a state flagship.

Is this really true that this is the only way though?

My H and I live in a flyover state and will make around 800k this year. We live pretty nicely. Either of us went to an elite school. Based on our experience, we don’t think we need to be pressuring our kids into the Ivy League to “survive.”

Shrug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Simple: Elite people want to stay elite. One way to ensure that is to educate your kids. It is not about being "rich" or bragging rights. It's about survival over and maintaining/growing principal from one generation to the next. People are also concerned about future generations, their opportunities and education. Without a doubt you can make a nice salary going to any college. That is not the hope of most ivey parents... then you should do merit aid or a state flagship.

Is this really true that this is the only way though?

My H and I live in a flyover state and will make around 800k this year. We live pretty nicely. Either of us went to an elite school. Based on our experience, we don’t think we need to be pressuring our kids into the Ivy League to “survive.”

Shrug.

Yeah, I agree w/ you on this. People DO want to “stay elite” but that’s not why kids are under so much pressure/stress these days. Most UMC aren’t elite for one. If you ARE “elite” you can by Ivy League and be just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I feel like maybe they are for low income and maybe middle class people but what about everyone else?

Studies show the best indicator of a child’s future socioeconomic status is their parents own economic class.

So why are all these rich people risking jail time and public humiliation and shaming for something that won’t even help their kids that much?

And beyond those people, why are “regular” UMC types who can’t afford to bribe or donate their way in putting so much pressure on their kids to jump through the hoops and get the best grades, test scores, extracurriculars, etc. for a less than 10% chance of getting in and making it feel “worth it”?

In this new Gilded Age of ever-rising income inequality, people feel desperate to do everything they can to give their kids access to upper middle class opportunities.

But we’re talking about people who already have money and connections.

UMC and up.

People in the UMC include a lot of people with some amount of money to pay for school, and zero connections.

[Anonymous]

"My H and I live in a flyover state and will make around 800k this year. We live pretty nicely. Either of us went to an elite school. Based on our experience, we don’t think we need to be pressuring our kids into the Ivy League to “survive.”

I have a HS buddy like you. He has always loved to be a big fish in a small pond.

One of his kids ended up in the service, nothing wrong with that, but my buddy can't understand why DC won't move on to college.

His DC loves being a big fish in his company and rapidly advancing and will soon have nearly 200 guys looking up to him.

Most people who push their kids into the Ivy League are small fish in the best pond people.

[Anonymous]

If post-university earnings are the goal for students who qualify for financial aid during college, then yes the elite institutions do matter.

The Washington Post published an analysis today https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/16/operation-varsity-blues-data-shows-why-parents-might-take-risks-get-their-kids-right-college/?utm_term=.e1d9a120e789

"Fallout from a college admissions fraud scheme continues to spread after dozens of wealthy parents were accused of bribing officials and relying on falsified test scores to get their children into highly selective colleges.

Federal data on post-collegiate earnings underscore why some people might be willing to risk a possible felony to get their children into the “right” schools: Graduates of the nation’s elite universities enjoy a significant wage premium relative to the typical college grad. This is particularly true at the top end of the income spectrum, where the richest graduates of the nation’s top-tier colleges can earn more than double what their peers at other schools typically make.

Graduates of the nation’s four-year colleges and universities can expect a median annual salary of about $44,000 by the 10th year after they first enrolled in college, according to a Washington Post analysis of data from the Department of Education. By comparison, that number jumps to $84,000 for the top 10 percent of college grads.

But if we look only at a select group of elite colleges — say, the eight schools reportedly targeted by the defendants in the Department of Justice’s Operation Varsity Blues investigation — those numbers change dramatically. The median graduate of those schools (which include Georgetown, Stanford, UCLA, the University of San Diego, the University of Southern California, the University of Texas at Austin, Wake Forest and Yale) can expect to earn about $73,000 a decade after they first enroll. And those who finish in the top 10 percent at those schools typically earn about $161,000 — nearly double the income of the top 10 percent of graduates of the rest of the nation’s colleges.

One important caveat is that the data are derived from students who received some form of federal financial aid during their undergraduate years. The roughly 15 percent of students who don’t need assistance aren’t included in the calculations. If those students were included, it would likely shift these distributions upward, although it’s unclear whether that would result in a larger or smaller earnings gap between graduates of top schools and everyone else. ..."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"My H and I live in a flyover state and will make around 800k this year. We live pretty nicely. Either of us went to an elite school. Based on our experience, we don’t think we need to be pressuring our kids into the Ivy League to “survive.”

I have a HS buddy like you. He has always loved to be a big fish in a small pond.

One of his kids ended up in the service, nothing wrong with that, but my buddy can't understand why DC won't move on to college.

His DC loves being a big fish in his company and rapidly advancing and will soon have nearly 200 guys looking up to him.

Most people who push their kids into the Ivy League are small fish in the best pond people.

Huh? This makes no sense.