Moving to the U.S. soon. What is the difference between/among regular, honors and AP courses?

[Anonymous]

My parents came here from Ireland for a three year spell in the mid 90's with my younger brother and sister. My brother did two years MS (Pyle) and one HS (Whitman). I do recall my mother having to fight them a little on getting him placed in the proper advanced classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Yes, I have been following the MCPS threads about grade inflation and what a disservice they are doing to the students. I guess MCPS doesn't care because once a student leaves the county, their stats don't matter. I wonder how many students 1) go to college after graduation and more importantly, 2) how many graduate. It is unfair to lead a student down the primrose path when they will eventually hit the wall in college. Remedial classes cost extra money and then kids drop out owing student loans that they have no way of paying.

Again...ask real people how their kids did with college acceptances and outside of MCPS. Grade inflation is not unique to MCPS. My son (who had far from straight A's in MCPS) is a successful college freshman. He had several choices and merit aid offers. DCUM is 95% entertainment and occasionally useful.

[Anonymous]

OP are you Persian or Indian by any chance? There are many families in the Bethesda / DC area who are and who will uphold the basic outlines you've had in this thread. The culture is not unlike that in many other places, including Europe. You aim for the top of the tree and if you hit the next branch down you've landed safely. You don't aim for the middle of the tree, in case you land in the mud.

[Anonymous]

For thise saying regular level classes are not remedial in mcps, some high schools in mcps, including the one my children attend, do not even offer regular and instead only offer honors in subjects like English. which is a de facto way of saying honors basically are regular classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP- there is significant grade inflation in MCPS and more importantly a lack of rigor in grading overall that makes it really difficult for kids to get anything lower than an A or B. The kids getting C or lower grades usually have undiagnosed learning disabilities, struggle with organization/losing or forgetting their work or are just not doing most of the work. Yes, the regular classes in MCPS are remedial.

MCPS -at the high school level- does not practice gate keeping. Many schools require more rigorous placement tests, test performance or high grades to be in honors or AP courses. MCPS is the opposite. In many lower performing high school, MCPS pushes kids that are not academically capable into AP courses so it can report higher numbers of kids in those courses. You'll see that the AP scores vary pretty highly among schools.

This doesn't square with reality. This is fake news.
MCPS leads the nation in AP passing rate.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/press/index.aspx?pagetype=showrelease&id=8161&type=&startYear=&pageNumber=&mode=
Minorities in MCPS do better in AP than anywhere in the nation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP- there is significant grade inflation in MCPS and more importantly a lack of rigor in grading overall that makes it really difficult for kids to get anything lower than an A or B. The kids getting C or lower grades usually have undiagnosed learning disabilities, struggle with organization/losing or forgetting their work or are just not doing most of the work. Yes, the regular classes in MCPS are remedial.

MCPS -at the high school level- does not practice gate keeping. Many schools require more rigorous placement tests, test performance or high grades to be in honors or AP courses. MCPS is the opposite. In many lower performing high school, MCPS pushes kids that are not academically capable into AP courses so it can report higher numbers of kids in those courses. You'll see that the AP scores vary pretty highly among schools.

This doesn't square with reality. This is fake news.
MCPS leads the nation in AP passing rate.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/press/index.aspx?pagetype=showrelease&id=8161&type=&startYear=&pageNumber=&mode=
Minorities in MCPS do better in AP than anywhere in the nation.

where in the article do you see this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP- there is significant grade inflation in MCPS and more importantly a lack of rigor in grading overall that makes it really difficult for kids to get anything lower than an A or B. The kids getting C or lower grades usually have undiagnosed learning disabilities, struggle with organization/losing or forgetting their work or are just not doing most of the work. Yes, the regular classes in MCPS are remedial.

MCPS -at the high school level- does not practice gate keeping. Many schools require more rigorous placement tests, test performance or high grades to be in honors or AP courses. MCPS is the opposite. In many lower performing high school, MCPS pushes kids that are not academically capable into AP courses so it can report higher numbers of kids in those courses. You'll see that the AP scores vary pretty highly among schools.

This doesn't square with reality. This is fake news.
MCPS leads the nation in AP passing rate.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/press/index.aspx?pagetype=showrelease&id=8161&type=&startYear=&pageNumber=&mode=
Minorities in MCPS do better in AP than anywhere in the nation.

where in the article do you see this?

Anonymous wrote:The percentage of Black or African American graduates in the MCPS Class of 2017 that earned at least one AP exam score of 3 or higher was 28.2; this is 21.5 percentage points higher than the rate for Blank or African American graduates in the nation (6.7 percent). The AP Exam performance rate by Hispanic/Latino graduates in MCPS was 35.3 percent; this is 12.0 percentage points higher than the rate of Hispanic/Latino graduates in the nation (23.3 percent)

[Anonymous]

"Honors" used to mean advanced, at least to some degree. When we attended middle school open houses this year, we were told that ALL students are placed in honors classes, except for a few on an advanced math track who would do Algebra I in 7th grade and Geometry in 8th grade. "Regular" classes are treated as remedial now. AP classes are usually more advanced than Honors, but are only offered at the high school level. Most selective universities do not give college credit for all the APs that are offered in high school, but they are helpful to get a higher class ranking IF you can get an A due to "quality points" that give extra rank credit for taking more challenging classes.

For example, AP U.S. History is usually really tough, and even when I was in school, lots of kids would drop to honors level to keep their GPA up. Then again, when I was a student in Baltimore County, there were 5 levels of classes, even in middle school: Gifted and Talented (G&T)/AP, honors, standard, basic, and special education, and we got challenged to different levels. This "everyone's an honors student" thing MoCo does is silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Honors" used to mean advanced, at least to some degree. When we attended middle school open houses this year, we were told that ALL students are placed in honors classes, except for a few on an advanced math track who would do Algebra I in 7th grade and Geometry in 8th grade. "Regular" classes are treated as remedial now. AP classes are usually more advanced than Honors, but are only offered at the high school level. Most selective universities do not give college credit for all the APs that are offered in high school, but they are helpful to get a higher class ranking IF you can get an A due to "quality points" that give extra rank credit for taking more challenging classes.

For example, AP U.S. History is usually really tough, and even when I was in school, lots of kids would drop to honors level to keep their GPA up. Then again, when I was a student in Baltimore County, there were 5 levels of classes, even in middle school: Gifted and Talented (G&T)/AP, honors, standard, basic, and special education, and we got challenged to different levels. This "everyone's an honors student" thing MoCo does is silly.

Few corrections: Honors and AP are the same in terms of your weighted GPA A= 5 pts.
MCPS does not provide any rankings

Are you really wanted AP classes to be offered in middle school??
As a parent of a kid who was in some regular classes (gasp) I am happy to say he is in college and doing fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP- there is significant grade inflation in MCPS and more importantly a lack of rigor in grading overall that makes it really difficult for kids to get anything lower than an A or B. The kids getting C or lower grades usually have undiagnosed learning disabilities, struggle with organization/losing or forgetting their work or are just not doing most of the work. Yes, the regular classes in MCPS are remedial.

MCPS -at the high school level- does not practice gate keeping. Many schools require more rigorous placement tests, test performance or high grades to be in honors or AP courses. MCPS is the opposite. In many lower performing high school, MCPS pushes kids that are not academically capable into AP courses so it can report higher numbers of kids in those courses. You'll see that the AP scores vary pretty highly among schools.

I don't see anything wrong with this. If a student wants to try, why hold him back? I had the same experience when I was in HS (not MCPS). I was a late bloomer in many ways. I had to beg AP teachers to let me take the class in my junior year. I got all As, and I didn't find it that hard. Looking at my 9th/10th grades, you wouldn't have thought I'd be capable, but it was just maturity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For thise saying regular level classes are not remedial in mcps, some high schools in mcps, including the one my children attend, do not even offer regular and instead only offer honors in subjects like English. which is a de facto way of saying honors basically are regular classes.

But honors classes give an entire point higher on your GPA - so there is another form of grade inflation.

English Honors (which we all know is basic English)
An 89.5 and a 79.5 = a 5.0 GPA.

INSANITY.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP- there is significant grade inflation in MCPS and more importantly a lack of rigor in grading overall that makes it really difficult for kids to get anything lower than an A or B. The kids getting C or lower grades usually have undiagnosed learning disabilities, struggle with organization/losing or forgetting their work or are just not doing most of the work. Yes, the regular classes in MCPS are remedial.

MCPS -at the high school level- does not practice gate keeping. Many schools require more rigorous placement tests, test performance or high grades to be in honors or AP courses. MCPS is the opposite. In many lower performing high school, MCPS pushes kids that are not academically capable into AP courses so it can report higher numbers of kids in those courses. You'll see that the AP scores vary pretty highly among schools.

This doesn't square with reality. This is fake news.
MCPS leads the nation in AP passing rate.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/press/index.aspx?pagetype=showrelease&id=8161&type=&startYear=&pageNumber=&mode=
Minorities in MCPS do better in AP than anywhere in the nation.

where in the article do you see this?

Anonymous wrote:The percentage of Black or African American graduates in the MCPS Class of 2017 that earned at least one AP exam score of 3 or higher was 28.2; this is 21.5 percentage points higher than the rate for Blank or African American graduates in the nation (6.7 percent). The AP Exam performance rate by Hispanic/Latino graduates in MCPS was 35.3 percent; this is 12.0 percentage points higher than the rate of Hispanic/Latino graduates in the nation (23.3 percent)

So you are saying only a quarter of AA students passed just ONE AP exam with a 3 and they mark that successful? If the kids are getting A’s in AP they should easily be getting 4’s and 5’s on the AP exam - so long as the class is taught correctly. But we all know it isn’t.

Whether or not MCPS is a few point higher than the rest of the country is irrelevant. Those numbers are absolutely terrible and embarrassing. How many parents spend how much money on these exams? College Board has duped us all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP- there is significant grade inflation in MCPS and more importantly a lack of rigor in grading overall that makes it really difficult for kids to get anything lower than an A or B. The kids getting C or lower grades usually have undiagnosed learning disabilities, struggle with organization/losing or forgetting their work or are just not doing most of the work. Yes, the regular classes in MCPS are remedial.

MCPS -at the high school level- does not practice gate keeping. Many schools require more rigorous placement tests, test performance or high grades to be in honors or AP courses. MCPS is the opposite. In many lower performing high school, MCPS pushes kids that are not academically capable into AP courses so it can report higher numbers of kids in those courses. You'll see that the AP scores vary pretty highly among schools.

This doesn't square with reality. This is fake news.
MCPS leads the nation in AP passing rate.
https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/press/index.aspx?pagetype=showrelease&id=8161&type=&startYear=&pageNumber=&mode=
Minorities in MCPS do better in AP than anywhere in the nation.

where in the article do you see this?

Anonymous wrote:The percentage of Black or African American graduates in the MCPS Class of 2017 that earned at least one AP exam score of 3 or higher was 28.2; this is 21.5 percentage points higher than the rate for Blank or African American graduates in the nation (6.7 percent). The AP Exam performance rate by Hispanic/Latino graduates in MCPS was 35.3 percent; this is 12.0 percentage points higher than the rate of Hispanic/Latino graduates in the nation (23.3 percent)

So you are saying only a quarter of AA students passed just ONE AP exam with a 3 and they mark that successful? If the kids are getting A’s in AP they should easily be getting 4’s and 5’s on the AP exam - so long as the class is taught correctly. But we all know it isn’t.

Whether or not MCPS is a few point higher than the rest of the country is irrelevant. Those numbers are absolutely terrible and embarrassing. How many parents spend how much money on these exams? College Board has duped us all.

Nice data manipulation..a quarter passed AT LEAST 1 with a 3 or HIGHER. You changed that to JUST 1 and with ONLY a 3.

[Anonymous]

Your school will only have a couple of AP courses available for freshmen. (By junior year, a student could pretty much fill their schedule with them if they want to.)

If you have a strong student, I'd suggest signing up for the APs. The sequence of courses varies across MCPS, but the two that appear to be offered most commonly are AP US history and AP government (called NSL). AP USH is a huge amount of work (probably moreso if your child hasn't had any US history before). However, the Honors USH seems to be way, way too easy and I've heard kids don't learn much. On the other hand, our experience with NSL is that even the AP NSL has been very, very easy. I looked at the textbook and was surprised it was even considered high school level (looks like a middle school text to me). So certainly, if that is the recommended freshman course I would recommend the AP level for it.

You will have the first few weeks of the term to switch classes, and many kids at my school switched from AP USH to Honors USH. So I'd give it a try and be willing to switch a few weeks in if it's not a good fit for your child.

There are also a few AP electives offered to freshmen at our school. They would be fine to take, but you could also just push them back to the following year without losing much.

I'd concur that you want Honors for everything else. My dd's experience is that the Honors courses have almost never been very much work. (Certainly, if your dc struggles in a subject, the regular class might be appropriate. But again, you have the first few weeks of the term to assess and decide whether to switch classes.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The percentage of Black or African American graduates in the MCPS Class of 2017 that earned at least one AP exam score of 3 or higher was 28.2; this is 21.5 percentage points higher than the rate for Blank or African American graduates in the nation (6.7 percent). The AP Exam performance rate by Hispanic/Latino graduates in MCPS was 35.3 percent; this is 12.0 percentage points higher than the rate of Hispanic/Latino graduates in the nation (23.3 percent)

So you are saying only a quarter of AA students passed just ONE AP exam with a 3 and they mark that successful? If the kids are getting A’s in AP they should easily be getting 4’s and 5’s on the AP exam - so long as the class is taught correctly. But we all know it isn’t.

Whether or not MCPS is a few point higher than the rest of the country is irrelevant. Those numbers are absolutely terrible and embarrassing. How many parents spend how much money on these exams? College Board has duped us all.

28.2% of Black or African-American graduates earned at least one AP exam score of 3 or higher.