WWYD - kid struggling with Algebra 2

[Anonymous]

^auto correct! :/ I meant who knows the county AND the class

[Anonymous]

Ask for additional time for assessments under the 504. Kids with anxiety often times stress out with time limitations and do poorly on tests. This might be the case if she's doing well on what the tutor gives her. Sometimes they'll give 50 percent more time or something like that.

[Anonymous]

You are asking for advice. I suggest two things - Drop her down from Honors to non-honors. The pace of honors is fast - generally covers a new topic, expect kids to get it quickly or fill the gaps themselves, then quiz next class. Her anxiety probably kicks in when she doesn't understand the material and I would guess you have a tutor once weekly at a set date/time which does not always align with the pace of the curriculum. Non-honors math moves at a slower pace and allows more time to cover the material and there is more explanation in class in addition to more practice problems. Your daughter may feel more confident moving slower as she would have more time to grasp the material. This also gives her time to get her grade up by the end of the school year. Second, coach your daughter on how to advocate for herself and come up with solutions to solve her problems. She may be thinking that everyone in the class gets it but her and is afraid to approach the teacher for help. High school teachers will often respond first to the student, rather than the parent.

I have a high school kid who is on the non-honors math track because she also has anxiety and she prefers the pace because it helps her be confident in math. She has several kids in her precalc/trig non-honors class that were formerly in AAP 3-8, including middle school honors math that dropped down once in high school. It is much more common in high school than you think.

Also, have your daughter reach out to her counselor who can help her navigate the communication with her teacher.

[Anonymous]

New poster here - I have a son in seventh grade and I’m following this because I have a feeling this will be his trajectory. OP you have two posters saying the exact same thing. They have slightly different styles, but they are saying the exact same thing.

For the posters in the know, what do you suggest? My older son says there’s a huge gap between general education math and honors math, and that the general education is very easy while the honors math goes very fast. I think mr second son is in between — is A’s in regular or struggling B minuses better? I care about confidence and grasping the material but the counselors talk about “rigor and challenging courses”.

[Anonymous]

11:42 Thanks, I have no problem with her dropping down if that is what is best. I am hoping the counselor can help with that decision.

And I have coached her on advocating for herself all her life -- in my first post, I note that I have only gotten involved one other time in her entire school career. She has done a good job of navigating these situations when she needs to in the past.

She has tried with this teacher. He has not been responsive. He does not offer times she can come for extra help or point her toward other resources. So that's why I am stepping in now.

I truly appreciate all the replies.

[Anonymous]

" OP, I struggled in a few advanced math classes in high school. A couple of quarters I even got a C and my average was often lower than that (Dish) mid quarter. I always pulled my semester averages back up to a B, but there were some nail biters. I kept working hard and continued to learn the material. I went on to get a STEM degree from an engineering school and killed the curve in every math class.

In retrospect, many parents would have pulled me back to the non Honors math track. I'm sure I could have gotten As in those classes. But then I wouldn't have had been prepared for a STEM degree in college. Sometimes hard is a good thing. Its okay for your DD to struggle a bit, and probably even good for her."

+10

HS math is about learning how to study HS math. It isn't that hard but you have to do more than pay attention in class and cram for two hours the night before the test.

You need to make sure she is learning each step of the material each day. Look around on the web for sites that suggest how to study math in college. Lots of people need to learn how to study then.

It gets more difficult if you have an absentee teacher like your DD did for Alg I but working through it can lead to good things.

Many people don't learn how to struggle growing up and then have to learn it as an adult. Now THAT is a painful process.

[Anonymous]

Kids drop out of honors math all the time - some in Algebra 2, some in pre-calc. This year, there was an influx of Calc BC students into my son's Calc AB class at the beginning of the 2nd quarter. Not everyone is going to fit neatly into one of the normal math tracks with guaranteed success from year to year.

A student in regular pre-calc in 9th grade is still very much ahead in math and can graduate with Calc BC. Good luck working through the system with your DD, OP.

[Anonymous]

*oops, meant regular Algebra 2, not regular pre-calc.

She may find that she has juniors and seniors in her class if she switches to regular - she will be a superstar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:*oops, meant regular Algebra 2, not regular pre-calc.

She may find that she has juniors and seniors in her class if she switches to regular - she will be a superstar.

OP I wouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that dropping down is the right way to go here as some have suggested. Before considering that, have you spoken with your DD? What is her take on her understanding of the material? Does she often/occasionally feel lost in class? Does she do very well on her homework and feels she is understanding the concepts (i.e not just memorizing facts, etc, but can actually explain them to someone?). What is her take on her teacher, and peers... does she feel like the class is moving very fast? Is there a lot of learning/teaching going on during class? What is her feeling towards quizzes and tests, and other significant components of her grade? I.e does she believe she did well (and possibly made careless errors)? Or is it that she is anxious and finds some questions difficult? Has she gotten back her quizzes/tests so she can check to see what mistakes she made? This last point is very important and is key to her being able to identify what she is fully understanding. Also as others pointed out, is the tutor really accurately assessing her level of understanding, or are there real knowledge gaps that they may be overlooking?

All of these details are important in trying to better understand what is happening before considering moving down. Some of these can definitely be answered by having a conference with the teacher, but first you should get your daughter's initial impression on this. Since she is in high school, she should hopefully be able to self assess a bit and describe what she thinks is happening.

[Anonymous]

I wonder if our kids go to the same high school? My DC is in Alg 2 honors and the teacher is both terrible and a very tight grader. We’re lucky that my DC had excellent teachers in middle school and has a natural aptitude for math, so she’s doing fine, but she’s frustrated that the teacher does such a poor job explaining the material. We looked into switching at the beginning of the year and we’re told not to both because the other honors Alg 2 teacher is just as bad!

The options we hear from other kids is to drop to gen ed Alg 2 or get a tutor. If staying on the honors math track is important to your kid, maybe you should try a different tutor that has more experience with your teacher.

[Anonymous]

Of course I have spoken extensively with DD! I know you mean well, and you make many great points, but it seems odd to think I haven't talked to her about it before getting to this point.

She thinks she understands the material, though she admits the class moves fast. The tutor also thinks DD understands. But it doesn't translate to the tests. She says the tests are much harder than the study guides and homework.

She does get the tests and quizzes back and she and the tutor work through the problems she missed. She admits she makes some careless errors but there are also problems that she doesn't feel she was taught how to do.

I agree with so much of what everyone is saying -- yes, struggling has many benefits, and I have taken that view for the past quarter, but at this point, she is drowning. She does NOT want to move down, but I really need to hear from her teacher so I can understand his perspective.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if our kids go to the same high school? My DC is in Alg 2 honors and the teacher is both terrible and a very tight grader. We’re lucky that my DC had excellent teachers in middle school and has a natural aptitude for math, so she’s doing fine, but she’s frustrated that the teacher does such a poor job explaining the material. We looked into switching at the beginning of the year and we’re told not to both because the other honors Alg 2 teacher is just as bad!

The options we hear from other kids is to drop to gen ed Alg 2 or get a tutor. If staying on the honors math track is important to your kid, maybe you should try a different tutor that has more experience with your teacher.

DD says the other teacher is great, but I don't know that she can get switched at this point. Our tutor is great -- a former math teacher (but not in FCPS) -- but I agree we may need someone more familiar with the Alg. 2 Honors class and/or this teacher.

[Anonymous]

“ She does get the tests and quizzes back and she and the tutor work through the problems she missed. She admits she makes some careless errors but there are also problems that she doesn't feel she was taught how to do.”

This means she isn’t that adept at the concepts. The tests always include some questions that students can say they weren’t taught. They are being asked to apply their knowledge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:11:42 Thanks, I have no problem with her dropping down if that is what is best. I am hoping the counselor can help with that decision.

And I have coached her on advocating for herself all her life -- in my first post, I note that I have only gotten involved one other time in her entire school career. She has done a good job of navigating these situations when she needs to in the past.

She has tried with this teacher. He has not been responsive. He does not offer times she can come for extra help or point her toward other resources. So that's why I am stepping in now.

I truly appreciate all the replies.

How is it possible that the teacher has zero hours before, during or after school? That is impossible. What hours did they tell you at BTS night? What is listed on the blackboard or google class site? The head of the department can tell your DD the hours too. She also can still get help from the other teacher as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of course I have spoken extensively with DD! I know you mean well, and you make many great points, but it seems odd to think I haven't talked to her about it before getting to this point.

She thinks she understands the material, though she admits the class moves fast. The tutor also thinks DD understands. But it doesn't translate to the tests. She says the tests are much harder than the study guides and homework.

She does get the tests and quizzes back and she and the tutor work through the problems she missed. She admits she makes some careless errors but there are also problems that she doesn't feel she was taught how to do.

I agree with so much of what everyone is saying -- yes, struggling has many benefits, and I have taken that view for the past quarter, but at this point, she is drowning. She does NOT want to move down, but I really need to hear from her teacher so I can understand his perspective.

I know you spoke with her, but you still have to assess deeper. To me, the bold above suggests she may not fully understand the material, OR the tests are really hard -- which I hesitate to believe is likely with MCPS curriculum. Here are some more questions I would ask: Does she have an assigned algebra 2 textbook where she can practice extra problems from? Is she regularly reading or trying to read that book, or does she only go by teacher class notes? (Reading a good book is often one of the best ways to self learn in combination with the class notes). How is she studying for a test? Does she carefully review all past problems that she did not get/understand at least two days before? Or does she mostly study for it the night before? How are the homework problems in difficulty compared to the actual exam (if you or your daughter can't really judge this, ask the tutor to take a close look).

A good teacher normally gives kids a lot of homework to help them learn the concepts, with some problems being more difficult than on the test. If this is the case, and she is understanding all the homework, generally the conceptual ideas fall in place from doing all the homework, by the time the test day arrives. Other not as good teachers tend to give light homework which gives students a false sense of security that they get it, but when they take the test they stumble and get bad grades.

Your case is very common, as a tutor and math teacher I've seen it happen many times. You have a typical straight A/good grades student who is doing just fine in all classes except for math, and it's initially unclear what the problem is, because they clearly seem like they want to do well. But when you look beyond the surface, the student has gaps in knowledge (usually which they've accumulated from past years), and they have a pretty poor class curriculum (i.e no textbook and/or a fair to poor teacher). This tends to result in the student thinking they are getting things, i.e they can mimic/copy problem/exercises presented in class, but they cannot do that on the tests.

My recommendation (in addition to the above as well as having a talk with the teacher to get their feedback), would be to get her a good algebra resource/book and work through additional problems; it may take a bit of time, but hopefully she can learn from doing them. By "problems" I mean questions that are meant to be more challenging in terms of applying the concept (similar to the ones that she couldn't do on tests), so that she can practice with them, and hopefully with the help of solutions manual and/or your tutor, can understand how to approach them.