Buying in Arlington Village (Columbia Pike) — currently Drew ES

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you send your kids to the Drew neighborhood program or are enrolling them cut the disgust. In a few years this school may very well be great yet next year/ 2020/2021.... the idea there will not be any growing pains for a school with high ELL and high poverty is not rational.

Show me one neighborhood school in south Arlington that has earned a reputation for academic excellence without a declining farms rate at the same time. You can't, because there aren't any. This "next few years" blather is ahistorical. It's what Henry parents tell themselves; that their good school is entirely their effort and time, and not simply the product of gentrification, which is a huge part of the story. It's farms rate has dropped 40 points over 15 years with no boundary adjustments. Unfortunately, the potential for other south Arlington neighborhood schools besides HB, Oakridge, and Henry/Fleet, the potential for gentrification is limited by county board subsidized housing policy, which seeks to put even more poverty in our highest poverty areas. That's why this boundary change should seek to give every school a rate as low as is reasonably possible, because the rates aren't ever going to go down.

And option 6 doesn't do this. They don't care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you send your kids to the Drew neighborhood program or are enrolling them cut the disgust. In a few years this school may very well be great yet next year/ 2020/2021.... the idea there will not be any growing pains for a school with high ELL and high poverty is not rational.

Show me one neighborhood school in south Arlington that has earned a reputation for academic excellence without a declining farms rate at the same time. You can't, because there aren't any. This "next few years" blather is ahistorical. It's what Henry parents tell themselves; that their good school is entirely their effort and time, and not simply the product of gentrification, which is a huge part of the story. It's farms rate has dropped 40 points over 15 years with no boundary adjustments. Unfortunately, the potential for other south Arlington neighborhood schools besides HB, Oakridge, and Henry/Fleet, the potential for gentrification is limited by county board subsidized housing policy, which seeks to put even more poverty in our highest poverty areas. That's why this boundary change should seek to give every school a rate as low as is reasonably possible, because the rates aren't ever going to go down.

Question: do you think poverty rates are actually increasing in those areas you mentioned, or are they just not gentrifying as quickly as other areas in S Arlington? Or are they maintaining?

I’m a relatively new-ish homeowner in this area, curious what other opinions are out there for people who’ve lived in the area longer. I’m currently zoned for Abingdon. I don’t think Abingdon helps or hurts my value at this point.

[Anonymous]

This is OP. First, thank you to all the posters who shared insight. To the poster immediately above, it strikes me as gross that you're viewing school quality in terms of whether it hurts or helps your home value as opposed to whether it hurts or helps the children who go to school there. Yes, as a first time buyer and a mom, I am completely naive about how people talk about schools and home prices, but when you take a step back and realize you're talking about education and human lives, that's actually quite gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. First, thank you to all the posters who shared insight. To the poster immediately above, it strikes me as gross that you're viewing school quality in terms of whether it hurts or helps your home value as opposed to whether it hurts or helps the children who go to school there. Yes, as a first time buyer and a mom, I am completely naive about how people talk about schools and home prices, but when you take a step back and realize you're talking about education and human lives, that's actually quite gross.

yup, you are naïve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. First, thank you to all the posters who shared insight. To the poster immediately above, it strikes me as gross that you're viewing school quality in terms of whether it hurts or helps your home value as opposed to whether it hurts or helps the children who go to school there. Yes, as a first time buyer and a mom, I am completely naive about how people talk about schools and home prices, but when you take a step back and realize you're talking about education and human lives, that's actually quite gross.

Please spare me the sanctimony. And I find it quite hypocritical that you would come onto a board like this, pose a question about what school your potential home is potentially zoned for, and then feign shock that homeowners are quite aware of the financial implications of school zoning. My home is the biggest investment I will ever make. You can call it gross, but I call it sound financial planning that needs to be managed just like any other asset I own. Obviously if you have concerns about where a house is zoned for when deciding where to buy/invest, you can be sure other people are too, and that all factors into how much someone will sell or buy a home for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you send your kids to the Drew neighborhood program or are enrolling them cut the disgust. In a few years this school may very well be great yet next year/ 2020/2021.... the idea there will not be any growing pains for a school with high ELL and high poverty is not rational.

Show me one neighborhood school in south Arlington that has earned a reputation for academic excellence without a declining farms rate at the same time. You can't, because there aren't any. This "next few years" blather is ahistorical. It's what Henry parents tell themselves; that their good school is entirely their effort and time, and not simply the product of gentrification, which is a huge part of the story. It's farms rate has dropped 40 points over 15 years with no boundary adjustments. Unfortunately, the potential for other south Arlington neighborhood schools besides HB, Oakridge, and Henry/Fleet, the potential for gentrification is limited by county board subsidized housing policy, which seeks to put even more poverty in our highest poverty areas. That's why this boundary change should seek to give every school a rate as low as is reasonably possible, because the rates aren't ever going to go down.

Question: do you think poverty rates are actually increasing in those areas you mentioned, or are they just not gentrifying as quickly as other areas in S Arlington? Or are they maintaining?

I’m a relatively new-ish homeowner in this area, curious what other opinions are out there for people who’ve lived in the area longer. I’m currently zoned for Abingdon. I don’t think Abingdon helps or hurts my value at this point.

DP here. I'll be interested to see what the PP says, but my opinion is that a little more nuance is needed when looking at other South Arl schools. I agree with the premise that it's gentrification. I don't agree that the Drew/Nauck area isn't poised to gentrify though. Nauck has the highest rates of poverty per census unit in the county, but it has relatively few CAFs compared to the Western Pike. Everyone says CH won't be enough to bail out Drew, but I disagree because CH and the Douglas Park triangle also don't have much in the way of CAFs.

Abingdon seems like the same kind of school zone given its neighborhoods. It's been gentrifying slowly in the years since I've lived here because most of its neighborhoods, even if lower income, are SFHs and gentrifying areas. The addition of Columbia Hills may not be a good thing, though on the other hand could be mitigated if they make Claremont a neighborhood school. That western pike area with Arlington Mill, Barcroft Apartments, Columbia Hills, etc., is a problem. There aren't enough schools to balance/distribute those students evenly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you send your kids to the Drew neighborhood program or are enrolling them cut the disgust. In a few years this school may very well be great yet next year/ 2020/2021.... the idea there will not be any growing pains for a school with high ELL and high poverty is not rational.

Show me one neighborhood school in south Arlington that has earned a reputation for academic excellence without a declining farms rate at the same time. You can't, because there aren't any. This "next few years" blather is ahistorical. It's what Henry parents tell themselves; that their good school is entirely their effort and time, and not simply the product of gentrification, which is a huge part of the story. It's farms rate has dropped 40 points over 15 years with no boundary adjustments. Unfortunately, the potential for other south Arlington neighborhood schools besides HB, Oakridge, and Henry/Fleet, the potential for gentrification is limited by county board subsidized housing policy, which seeks to put even more poverty in our highest poverty areas. That's why this boundary change should seek to give every school a rate as low as is reasonably possible, because the rates aren't ever going to go down.

Question: do you think poverty rates are actually increasing in those areas you mentioned, or are they just not gentrifying as quickly as other areas in S Arlington? Or are they maintaining?

I’m a relatively new-ish homeowner in this area, curious what other opinions are out there for people who’ve lived in the area longer. I’m currently zoned for Abingdon. I don’t think Abingdon helps or hurts my value at this point.

DP here. I'll be interested to see what the PP says, but my opinion is that a little more nuance is needed when looking at other South Arl schools. I agree with the premise that it's gentrification. I don't agree that the Drew/Nauck area isn't poised to gentrify though. Nauck has the highest rates of poverty per census unit in the county, but it has relatively few CAFs compared to the Western Pike. Everyone says CH won't be enough to bail out Drew, but I disagree because CH and the Douglas Park triangle also don't have much in the way of CAFs.

Abingdon seems like the same kind of school zone given its neighborhoods. It's been gentrifying slowly in the years since I've lived here because most of its neighborhoods, even if lower income, are SFHs and gentrifying areas. The addition of Columbia Hills may not be a good thing, though on the other hand could be mitigated if they make Claremont a neighborhood school. That western pike area with Arlington Mill, Barcroft Apartments, Columbia Hills, etc., is a problem. There aren't enough schools to balance/distribute those students evenly.

We bought a new construction in Nauck in 2014. We have seen significant gentrification in the four years we've lived here. While there is concern about the schools and the re-districting, we are cautiously optimistic. We are watching closely as our oldest is slated to start kindergarten next year.

With the Amazon announcement becoming official today, it may also help expedite gentrification as well as press the school board to not create boundaries which perpetuate problematic schools. I think Nauck is probably one of the few remaining neighborhoods that has room for additional gentrification and expansion and development-seems like all of NArl is already saturated, and there isn't too much room left otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. First, thank you to all the posters who shared insight. To the poster immediately above, it strikes me as gross that you're viewing school quality in terms of whether it hurts or helps your home value as opposed to whether it hurts or helps the children who go to school there. Yes, as a first time buyer and a mom, I am completely naive about how people talk about schools and home prices, but when you take a step back and realize you're talking about education and human lives, that's actually quite gross.

Please spare me the sanctimony. And I find it quite hypocritical that you would come onto a board like this, pose a question about what school your potential home is potentially zoned for, and then feign shock that homeowners are quite aware of the financial implications of school zoning. My home is the biggest investment I will ever make. You can call it gross, but I call it sound financial planning that needs to be managed just like any other asset I own. Obviously if you have concerns about where a house is zoned for when deciding where to buy/invest, you can be sure other people are too, and that all factors into how much someone will sell or buy a home for.

If only we could all be so privileged as to ignore the financial implications of homeownership...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you send your kids to the Drew neighborhood program or are enrolling them cut the disgust. In a few years this school may very well be great yet next year/ 2020/2021.... the idea there will not be any growing pains for a school with high ELL and high poverty is not rational.

Show me one neighborhood school in south Arlington that has earned a reputation for academic excellence without a declining farms rate at the same time. You can't, because there aren't any. This "next few years" blather is ahistorical. It's what Henry parents tell themselves; that their good school is entirely their effort and time, and not simply the product of gentrification, which is a huge part of the story. It's farms rate has dropped 40 points over 15 years with no boundary adjustments. Unfortunately, the potential for other south Arlington neighborhood schools besides HB, Oakridge, and Henry/Fleet, the potential for gentrification is limited by county board subsidized housing policy, which seeks to put even more poverty in our highest poverty areas. That's why this boundary change should seek to give every school a rate as low as is reasonably possible, because the rates aren't ever going to go down.

Question: do you think poverty rates are actually increasing in those areas you mentioned, or are they just not gentrifying as quickly as other areas in S Arlington? Or are they maintaining?

I’m a relatively new-ish homeowner in this area, curious what other opinions are out there for people who’ve lived in the area longer. I’m currently zoned for Abingdon. I don’t think Abingdon helps or hurts my value at this point.

DP here. I'll be interested to see what the PP says, but my opinion is that a little more nuance is needed when looking at other South Arl schools. I agree with the premise that it's gentrification. I don't agree that the Drew/Nauck area isn't poised to gentrify though. Nauck has the highest rates of poverty per census unit in the county, but it has relatively few CAFs compared to the Western Pike. Everyone says CH won't be enough to bail out Drew, but I disagree because CH and the Douglas Park triangle also don't have much in the way of CAFs.

Abingdon seems like the same kind of school zone given its neighborhoods. It's been gentrifying slowly in the years since I've lived here because most of its neighborhoods, even if lower income, are SFHs and gentrifying areas. The addition of Columbia Hills may not be a good thing, though on the other hand could be mitigated if they make Claremont a neighborhood school. That western pike area with Arlington Mill, Barcroft Apartments, Columbia Hills, etc., is a problem. There aren't enough schools to balance/distribute those students evenly.

We bought a new construction in Nauck in 2014. We have seen significant gentrification in the four years we've lived here. While there is concern about the schools and the re-districting, we are cautiously optimistic. We are watching closely as our oldest is slated to start kindergarten next year.

With the Amazon announcement becoming official today, it may also help expedite gentrification as well as press the school board to not create boundaries which perpetuate problematic schools. I think Nauck is probably one of the few remaining neighborhoods that has room for additional gentrification and expansion and development-seems like all of NArl is already saturated, and there isn't too much room left otherwise.

Except they keep adding to the existing affordable housing developments in the west end. Instead of doing that, they could do mixed-income housing. Per the previous commentaries, yes, gentrification is what ultimate brings Oakridge and Henry to 25% FRL and higher test scores and reputation. Hoffman Boston, however, has done well without as much gentrification - but it remained a small program and APS invested in improving it. Drew area still has room for much more gentrification and, more importantly, more buy-in from the existing non-FRL families that are already there. There isn't as much opportunity for gentrification at Carlin Springs, Randolph, or Barcroft unless the County and affordable housing developers suddenly and promptly change directions. One previous poster suggested there aren't enough schools in that area to spread out the economic diversity. It's more that there isn't enough middle to upper-middle class residents to create a better balance, especially when APS insists upon looking at boundaries in restricted geographical subsets of the whole system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP. First, thank you to all the posters who shared insight. To the poster immediately above, it strikes me as gross that you're viewing school quality in terms of whether it hurts or helps your home value as opposed to whether it hurts or helps the children who go to school there. Yes, as a first time buyer and a mom, I am completely naive about how people talk about schools and home prices, but when you take a step back and realize you're talking about education and human lives, that's actually quite gross.

Curious then, why did you pose your original question? What is it you're looking for - a particular school zone to be in, or school zones to avoid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you send your kids to the Drew neighborhood program or are enrolling them cut the disgust. In a few years this school may very well be great yet next year/ 2020/2021.... the idea there will not be any growing pains for a school with high ELL and high poverty is not rational.

Show me one neighborhood school in south Arlington that has earned a reputation for academic excellence without a declining farms rate at the same time. You can't, because there aren't any. This "next few years" blather is ahistorical. It's what Henry parents tell themselves; that their good school is entirely their effort and time, and not simply the product of gentrification, which is a huge part of the story. It's farms rate has dropped 40 points over 15 years with no boundary adjustments. Unfortunately, the potential for other south Arlington neighborhood schools besides HB, Oakridge, and Henry/Fleet, the potential for gentrification is limited by county board subsidized housing policy, which seeks to put even more poverty in our highest poverty areas. That's why this boundary change should seek to give every school a rate as low as is reasonably possible, because the rates aren't ever going to go down.

Question: do you think poverty rates are actually increasing in those areas you mentioned, or are they just not gentrifying as quickly as other areas in S Arlington? Or are they maintaining?

I’m a relatively new-ish homeowner in this area, curious what other opinions are out there for people who’ve lived in the area longer. I’m currently zoned for Abingdon. I don’t think Abingdon helps or hurts my value at this point.

DP here. I'll be interested to see what the PP says, but my opinion is that a little more nuance is needed when looking at other South Arl schools. I agree with the premise that it's gentrification. I don't agree that the Drew/Nauck area isn't poised to gentrify though. Nauck has the highest rates of poverty per census unit in the county, but it has relatively few CAFs compared to the Western Pike. Everyone says CH won't be enough to bail out Drew, but I disagree because CH and the Douglas Park triangle also don't have much in the way of CAFs.

Abingdon seems like the same kind of school zone given its neighborhoods. It's been gentrifying slowly in the years since I've lived here because most of its neighborhoods, even if lower income, are SFHs and gentrifying areas. The addition of Columbia Hills may not be a good thing, though on the other hand could be mitigated if they make Claremont a neighborhood school. That western pike area with Arlington Mill, Barcroft Apartments, Columbia Hills, etc., is a problem. There aren't enough schools to balance/distribute those students evenly.

We bought a new construction in Nauck in 2014. We have seen significant gentrification in the four years we've lived here. While there is concern about the schools and the re-districting, we are cautiously optimistic. We are watching closely as our oldest is slated to start kindergarten next year.

With the Amazon announcement becoming official today, it may also help expedite gentrification as well as press the school board to not create boundaries which perpetuate problematic schools. I think Nauck is probably one of the few remaining neighborhoods that has room for additional gentrification and expansion and development-seems like all of NArl is already saturated, and there isn't too much room left otherwise.

Except they keep adding to the existing affordable housing developments in the west end. Instead of doing that, they could do mixed-income housing. Per the previous commentaries, yes, gentrification is what ultimate brings Oakridge and Henry to 25% FRL and higher test scores and reputation. Hoffman Boston, however, has done well without as much gentrification - but it remained a small program and APS invested in improving it. Drew area still has room for much more gentrification and, more importantly, more buy-in from the existing non-FRL families that are already there. There isn't as much opportunity for gentrification at Carlin Springs, Randolph, or Barcroft unless the County and affordable housing developers suddenly and promptly change directions. One previous poster suggested there aren't enough schools in that area to spread out the economic diversity. It's more that there isn't enough middle to upper-middle class residents to create a better balance, especially when APS insists upon looking at boundaries in restricted geographical subsets of the whole system.

FWIW, Hoffman-Boston went from 65% FRL in 2008 to 49% in 2017. Also home to a large Asian population that places a lot of value on education. The MARKs in its zone are 80% of median, not 60. No CAFs either. Am sure Graves will be stellar at Drew but at HB the wind was at her back.

[Anonymous]

OP - I'm going to assume your kids aren't in school yet and you don't have a lot of exposure to the current process or schools/ratings. That is totally fine. Most feedback you hear on schools will be Henry/Fleet is great (it is!), the rest in S Arlington are not. This is based more on test scores/demographics than actual experiences. Visit schools to get a feel but be aware that places like Drew will be changing significantly. Yes these things will affect your property value as well. There's no perfect answer. Arlington Village and that location on the Pike is a great place to live though, so you need to factor that into your decision making. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

It’s hard to get an idea of what many of that underperforming schools are like, because people pull their kids out around 3rd grade. Of course that should tell you something.

[Anonymous]

Honestly no one should buy in south Arlington until they read the Pike Plan and the affordable housing master plan.
Read those first.
Understand that the free market isn’t really a thing in 22204.
Then see how the boundary process shakes out. Of course it is better if you were paying attention to the 2 previous boundary shifts, but Better late than never.
Spoiler alert: the SB will pick the option that is the least upsetting to the richest parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard to get an idea of what many of that underperforming schools are like, because people pull their kids out around 3rd grade. Of course that should tell you something.

I've seen this mentioned before and I think it's probably the same person each time. Where are your stats/proof?