Big law to in house counsel jobs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here ... thanks for the info! For those of you who have moved have you found that the quality of life has increased exponentially? Do you work a lot less and are less stressed?

DH is worried about leaving to go in house just to make less money and still be extremely stressed and work all the time. The GCs and counsel who he works with all seem equally as stressed as him and work all the time.

His experience is due in part to the reality that most companies typically only use outside counsel for higher stake, stressful matters. Depending on your practice area, the day to day work of many in house counsel is less stressful, with occasional peaks (during high risk litigation or investigations, during M&A that puts your job at risk). And, as anywhere, it also depends on the personalities of the people you work for and with. So look carefully and ask the right questions.

In our experience, we have not missed the money because we make more than enough for our standard of living, and our quality of life makes us look back on our firm days and wonder what we were thinking. After you cross a certain income threshold, most people begin to value time over money (that threshold varies by person too).

OP here .. thanks for your insight.

He works insane hours right now (typically gone from 7am until 8pm every week day) and always a few hours on the weekends if not more depending if there is an urgent deadline. Plus he does protest work so the deadlines are incredibly tight and the stress level is ridiculously high.

Ah, yes, DH used to do protests too. Life will be much easier than the bid protest scurry. Your DH will the one checking emails occasionally to see how the firm folks are doing with their 20 house weekend work.

[Anonymous]

OP, do you work? Have you really thought what going from $400k to $200k will feel like? Because we’ve done it (not by choice) and it sucked.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, do you work? Have you really thought what going from $400k to $200k will feel like? Because we’ve done it (not by choice) and it sucked.

I'm voluntarily taking a $100k paycut to go in house and I can't wait. Life is too short for biglaw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, do you work? Have you really thought what going from $400k to $200k will feel like? Because we’ve done it (not by choice) and it sucked.

I'm voluntarily taking a $100k paycut to go in house and I can't wait. Life is too short for biglaw.

What is your total HHI (old and new)? Context matters. $450 to $350 is a lot different than $300 to $200.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, do you work? Have you really thought what going from $400k to $200k will feel like? Because we’ve done it (not by choice) and it sucked.

I'm voluntarily taking a $100k paycut to go in house and I can't wait. Life is too short for biglaw.

What is your total HHI (old and new)? Context matters. $450 to $350 is a lot different than $300 to $200.

$300 to 200.

[Anonymous]

My husband went in house 5 years ago, and salary went from $350K to $190K. It was a big adjustment, but we made it work, and our kids being able to see him and spend time with him was so much more valuable to us. We were all so much happier. We chose to stay in the DC area. FYI, salary is now up to around $240K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband went in house 5 years ago, and salary went from $350K to $190K. It was a big adjustment, but we made it work, and our kids being able to see him and spend time with him was so much more valuable to us. We were all so much happier. We chose to stay in the DC area. FYI, salary is now up to around $240K.

Similar to this... except my DH salary has not shot up. DH has been in house for only 3 years, but is still making just over 200k with his all in compensation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, do you work? Have you really thought what going from $400k to $200k will feel like? Because we’ve done it (not by choice) and it sucked.

Op here I do work but I don’t make much ($60k). Our hhi was $300 last year. Projected to be $460k this year with bonus. I could probably find a higher paying job but right now we need my flexibility with kids and daycare drop offs and pick ups, etc given how much DH works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, do you work? Have you really thought what going from $400k to $200k will feel like? Because we’ve done it (not by choice) and it sucked.

Op here I do work but I don’t make much ($60k). Our hhi was $300 last year. Projected to be $460k this year with bonus. I could probably find a higher paying job but right now we need my flexibility with kids and daycare drop offs and pick ups, etc given how much DH works.

Well, no, you don’t. We are both in biglaw. We use the money to hire out as much as we can (laundry, maid service) and have an au pair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, do you work? Have you really thought what going from $400k to $200k will feel like? Because we’ve done it (not by choice) and it sucked.

Op here I do work but I don’t make much ($60k). Our hhi was $300 last year. Projected to be $460k this year with bonus. I could probably find a higher paying job but right now we need my flexibility with kids and daycare drop offs and pick ups, etc given how much DH works.

Well, no, you don’t. We are both in biglaw. We use the money to hire out as much as we can (laundry, maid service) and have an au pair.

Op here ... ok well then we want the flexibility of my job so there is a parent at home for dinner and bath and things on the weekends. Dh’s Job is very unpredictable and I can’t imagine having the same type of unpredictability with my job too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, do you work? Have you really thought what going from $400k to $200k will feel like? Because we’ve done it (not by choice) and it sucked.

Op here I do work but I don’t make much ($60k). Our hhi was $300 last year. Projected to be $460k this year with bonus. I could probably find a higher paying job but right now we need my flexibility with kids and daycare drop offs and pick ups, etc given how much DH works.

Well, no, you don’t. We are both in biglaw. We use the money to hire out as much as we can (laundry, maid service) and have an au pair.

Op here ... ok well then we want the flexibility of my job so there is a parent at home for dinner and bath and things on the weekends. Dh’s Job is very unpredictable and I can’t imagine having the same type of unpredictability with my job too.

It’s tough. But each of us could completely take over the household from the other one if we had to. A lot of peace of mind in that.

There are in house litigator jobs, they’re just rarer. Plan to move. Probably to California or New Jersey. Sometimes random places like Arizona or Kansas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, do you work? Have you really thought what going from $400k to $200k will feel like? Because we’ve done it (not by choice) and it sucked.

Op here I do work but I don’t make much ($60k). Our hhi was $300 last year. Projected to be $460k this year with bonus. I could probably find a higher paying job but right now we need my flexibility with kids and daycare drop offs and pick ups, etc given how much DH works.

Well, no, you don’t. We are both in biglaw. We use the money to hire out as much as we can (laundry, maid service) and have an au pair.

Op here ... ok well then we want the flexibility of my job so there is a parent at home for dinner and bath and things on the weekends. Dh’s Job is very unpredictable and I can’t imagine having the same type of unpredictability with my job too.

It’s tough. But each of us could completely take over the household from the other one if we had to. A lot of peace of mind in that.

There are in house litigator jobs, they’re just rarer. Plan to move. Probably to California or New Jersey. Sometimes random places like Arizona or Kansas.

Op here ... sorry if my response sounded snarky! I didn’t mean it to be. I am really amazed at a two big law household. I don’t know how you do it. Mostly I don’t think I could deal with having both us if stressed out all the time. Usually one of us is stressed and the other one talks that person down. When it’s both of us at the same time we just go nuclear! Not good for a functioning marriage or our kids. Good for you for making it work!

[Anonymous]

I don’t mean to rain on the parade here, but I think you really need to consider what you are suggesting here, especially as someone who has admitted she knows nothing about legal jobs. As a starting point, please read this:

https://www.bcgsearch.com/article/60637/The-dark-Side-Of-Going-In-House/

Yes, he is a little over the top and somewhat harsh but most of what he says is true. People have this fairy tale idea — I will go in house and work wonderful hours and the work will be easy and there won’t be nasty Biglaw partners around and life will be great ... except when you finally get in house and you have taken a huge pay cut, the work is dull or boring, your boss is still a jerk — maybe even a bigger one because he literally owns the Company and resembles Mr Burns from the Simpsons or he is accountable to quarterly shareholder results and his numbers are bad he might get canned ... suddenly, that biglaw job doesn’t look so bad.

Look — biglaw isn’t for everyone. It might not even be for your husband. But you need to get out of this fantasy mode that all of the work life problems would suddenly disappear if you just go in house. I know a lot of people who have went in house. That’s rarely the case. Some of the problems might even be worse. This is a major decision and it should not be undertaken with rose colored glasses because as Barnes correctly points out — once you go in house it is very hard to go back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, do you work? Have you really thought what going from $400k to $200k will feel like? Because we’ve done it (not by choice) and it sucked.

Op here I do work but I don’t make much ($60k). Our hhi was $300 last year. Projected to be $460k this year with bonus. I could probably find a higher paying job but right now we need my flexibility with kids and daycare drop offs and pick ups, etc given how much DH works.

Well, no, you don’t. We are both in biglaw. We use the money to hire out as much as we can (laundry, maid service) and have an au pair.

Op here ... ok well then we want the flexibility of my job so there is a parent at home for dinner and bath and things on the weekends. Dh’s Job is very unpredictable and I can’t imagine having the same type of unpredictability with my job too.

It’s tough. But each of us could completely take over the household from the other one if we had to. A lot of peace of mind in that.

There are in house litigator jobs, they’re just rarer. Plan to move. Probably to California or New Jersey. Sometimes random places like Arizona or Kansas.

Op here ... sorry if my response sounded snarky! I didn’t mean it to be. I am really amazed at a two big law household. I don’t know how you do it. Mostly I don’t think I could deal with having both us if stressed out all the time. Usually one of us is stressed and the other one talks that person down. When it’s both of us at the same time we just go nuclear! Not good for a functioning marriage or our kids. Good for you for making it work!

We went to law school together and figured out how to deal with it basically from the first date. We are always kind to each other. We both say right away when we are overwhelmed so the other person understands the limitations. And, we had maid service in law school. Everyone thought we were crazy to spend loan money on maid service but spending money to maximize our odds of success is just how we do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t mean to rain on the parade here, but I think you really need to consider what you are suggesting here, especially as someone who has admitted she knows nothing about legal jobs. As a starting point, please read this:

https://www.bcgsearch.com/article/60637/The-dark-Side-Of-Going-In-House/

Yes, he is a little over the top and somewhat harsh but most of what he says is true. People have this fairy tale idea — I will go in house and work wonderful hours and the work will be easy and there won’t be nasty Biglaw partners around and life will be great ... except when you finally get in house and you have taken a huge pay cut, the work is dull or boring, your boss is still a jerk — maybe even a bigger one because he literally owns the Company and resembles Mr Burns from the Simpsons or he is accountable to quarterly shareholder results and his numbers are bad he might get canned ... suddenly, that biglaw job doesn’t look so bad.

Look — biglaw isn’t for everyone. It might not even be for your husband. But you need to get out of this fantasy mode that all of the work life problems would suddenly disappear if you just go in house. I know a lot of people who have went in house. That’s rarely the case. Some of the problems might even be worse. This is a major decision and it should not be undertaken with rose colored glasses because as Barnes correctly points out — once you go in house it is very hard to go back.

Most people here aren't getting in house jobs at startups. If you're staying in DC, as many are, you are the in house counsel for a large F250ish organization. It's a good job if you can get it. I've known people who have been in such jobs for 20+years, so they do not come up frequently. I've never met anyone who went Inhouse who later said they wanted to go back to a firm. I know a single person who did go back to a firm... She was recruited to join a major firm as a partner straight from in house. This could vary from industry to industry... I do regulatory work.