Please remember words matter- and maybe brief the art teachers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well he is in the 3rd grade now and we've moved. So it is a little too late for that. I just wish he had told me while she was his teacher.

Send her a note!

Yes. Explain to her that your son will not be the only one that she will encounter.

[Anonymous]

My experience working with special ed kids, accompanying them to classes such as art, PE, music, etc., is that the teachers of those classes are quite often clueless. Some are clueless but nice, good-hearted people who do their best. Others are clueless and assholes as well. Often they don't read the IEPs that are supplied to them ("I like to form my own opinion of the student") and don't listen when told by special ed staff how they might interact with specific students. Some are so stupid they don't even try to hide their opinion that we are "babying" students, when we aren't.

It's somewhat understandable when the teacher is young or new or inexperienced. But I've seen this dynamic with teachers who have been in the job 20 years. I'd say PE teachers are the worst (just in my experience, of course) but have also seen it in art teachers, etc. As support staff I do my best to run interference and do damage control. I can report incidents or observations to my supervisor but chances are they won't do anything about it.

So I obviously can't say this is the case at every school, but I am saying it's typical of what I've seen over many years at a very highly regarded elementary school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A teacher's job is to teach and correct and mark work. Work produced for a course is looked at differently than through a parent's eye. If the teacher never gave any feedback and always just said that everything was amazing, there would be no learning or growth.

I understand you are upset but consider the context - it was in a class. It wasn't criticism, it was evaluation of work.

Rather than seeing it as a negative about the teacher, use it as an opportunity to teach your son about how things are appreciated and perceived differently in different contexts. That something can be beautiful to you but be messy to an art teacher who is looking for skill and execution.

Clearly you have no understanding of an elementary school art class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My experience working with special ed kids, accompanying them to classes such as art, PE, music, etc., is that the teachers of those classes are quite often clueless. Some are clueless but nice, good-hearted people who do their best. Others are clueless and assholes as well. Often they don't read the IEPs that are supplied to them ("I like to form my own opinion of the student") and don't listen when told by special ed staff how they might interact with specific students. Some are so stupid they don't even try to hide their opinion that we are "babying" students, when we aren't.

It's somewhat understandable when the teacher is young or new or inexperienced. But I've seen this dynamic with teachers who have been in the job 20 years. I'd say PE teachers are the worst (just in my experience, of course) but have also seen it in art teachers, etc. As support staff I do my best to run interference and do damage control. I can report incidents or observations to my supervisor but chances are they won't do anything about it.

So I obviously can't say this is the case at every school, but I am saying it's typical of what I've seen over many years at a very highly regarded elementary school.

And as parents we are so focused on getting the supports for core classes we don't think about the others.

This is so depressing.

[Anonymous]

OP- some teachers just don't get it. I worked as a Para in an autism classroom and would accompany those students to their music and art classes. Some teachers have no business teaching. They view students with disabilities as an interference to their class. On the other hand, there are absolutely great teachers too. I would still let the principal know- why not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A teacher's job is to teach and correct and mark work. Work produced for a course is looked at differently than through a parent's eye. If the teacher never gave any feedback and always just said that everything was amazing, there would be no learning or growth.

I understand you are upset but consider the context - it was in a class. It wasn't criticism, it was evaluation of work.

Rather than seeing it as a negative about the teacher, use it as an opportunity to teach your son about how things are appreciated and perceived differently in different contexts. That something can be beautiful to you but be messy to an art teacher who is looking for skill and execution.

Clearly you have no understanding of an elementary school art class.

Exactly! The job of a teacher is to be encouraging.

[Anonymous]

Teachers make such a difference in the academic and social lives of small children.

I had a bunch of delays as a child. I didn't get my fine motor skills straighten out until I was 20.

I was in sixth grade and I was a pretty angry kid. When you get knocked around by the teachers and most of the kids too, you can develop a pretty pissy defensive approach to people and life in general.

Once a week our itinerant art teacher came in for an afternoon art class. His name was Mr. Morrell. He was not particularly fond of me and the feeling was mutual.

The afternoon assignment was to create a paper and crayon version of a stained glass window similar to what you'd see in a church. As with most things in sixth grade I was totally baffled with no idea where to begin. Mr. Morrell stopped at my desk and looked at my blank piece of paper. He asked if I was okay and I said I didn't know how to begin.

He started drawing black lines which gradually began to form shapes of people and fruit, and such things. He asked me to fill in the blanks with colors which I did.. When i went outside of the lines he said, oh that's okay and he smudged them into the paper with his thumbs.

He was still there after recess and he came back to help me again. Now we took a very thin almost transparent coat of black water color over the simulated stained glass to give it an antique finish.

I could barely write my name so he did it for me in very clear letters.

Mr Morrell did 90% of the work, but for some reason he showed the class OUR work and he gave me most of the credit. For one day in elementary school my work was among the best in the class and it was posted on the bulletin board for two weeks.

It never happened again and a month or so later we moved on to Jr. High. I never saw Mr. Morrell after that day, but 50 years have passed and I've never forgotten or ever stopped appreciating the day Mr. Morrell gave me a sense of worth and value at a moment in time when I had little if any self-esteem.

Thank you Mr. Morrell, I've never forgotten your kindness so many years ago.

[Anonymous]

I used to teach and I had parents to kids with special needs want me to only praise and encourage. So I did that, as if that's what the parents want out if their child's education, then I can meet their goal. Their kids didn't learn as much or make as much progress as other kids because praise doesn't teach you much.

At the end of the day teachers are expected to teach to certain learning outcomes and to build skills but there are many teachers like me who are fine with no doing that if it will make the parents happy. It is wortha conversation with the teachers to let them know your goal is just that your child is praised and encouraged and you aren't concerned with learning or learning outcomes. It is always helpful to know as a teacher as different parents have different priorities. It is easier and faster for me to just draw a happy face and write great effort superstar on a page than it is to correct wrong answers or help the student figure out how to do it better next time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A teacher's job is to teach and correct and mark work. Work produced for a course is looked at differently than through a parent's eye. If the teacher never gave any feedback and always just said that everything was amazing, there would be no learning or growth.

I understand you are upset but consider the context - it was in a class. It wasn't criticism, it was evaluation of work.

Rather than seeing it as a negative about the teacher, use it as an opportunity to teach your son about how things are appreciated and perceived differently in different contexts. That something can be beautiful to you but be messy to an art teacher who is looking for skill and execution.

You are clueless pp. One of my dc began to hate drawing because of his teacher that year who was shallow and superficial. She criticized his writing and art work often even though he had an IEP and clearly had dysgraphia. I remember one night my child was crying at bed time because of how upset she was that the leaves that he drew and painted didn't have the right colors. It took the kid forever just to do an outline of 2 leaves and she bitched about the colors he chose. I agree that the teachers of "specials" are often very ignorant. We have a pe teacher at my kids hs who hates anything related to ieps and likes to make my child feel horrible about any accommodations dc needs. My spouse and I have talked to everyone we can in the school system and they do nothing. My child's case manager admits the guy is a problem and has been nasty to other special ed students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to teach and I had parents to kids with special needs want me to only praise and encourage. So I did that, as if that's what the parents want out if their child's education, then I can meet their goal. Their kids didn't learn as much or make as much progress as other kids because praise doesn't teach you much.

At the end of the day teachers are expected to teach to certain learning outcomes and to build skills but there are many teachers like me who are fine with no doing that if it will make the parents happy. It is wortha conversation with the teachers to let them know your goal is just that your child is praised and encouraged and you aren't concerned with learning or learning outcomes. It is always helpful to know as a teacher as different parents have different priorities. It is easier and faster for me to just draw a happy face and write great effort superstar on a page than it is to correct wrong answers or help the student figure out how to do it better next time.

You are ridiculous. We are taking about k or early elementary art class. Everyone should get an a.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Teachers make such a difference in the academic and social lives of small children.

I had a bunch of delays as a child. I didn't get my fine motor skills straighten out until I was 20.

I was in sixth grade and I was a pretty angry kid. When you get knocked around by the teachers and most of the kids too, you can develop a pretty pissy defensive approach to people and life in general.

Once a week our itinerant art teacher came in for an afternoon art class. His name was Mr. Morrell. He was not particularly fond of me and the feeling was mutual.

The afternoon assignment was to create a paper and crayon version of a stained glass window similar to what you'd see in a church. As with most things in sixth grade I was totally baffled with no idea where to begin. Mr. Morrell stopped at my desk and looked at my blank piece of paper. He asked if I was okay and I said I didn't know how to begin.

He started drawing black lines which gradually began to form shapes of people and fruit, and such things. He asked me to fill in the blanks with colors which I did.. When i went outside of the lines he said, oh that's okay and he smudged them into the paper with his thumbs.

He was still there after recess and he came back to help me again. Now we took a very thin almost transparent coat of black water color over the simulated stained glass to give it an antique finish.

I could barely write my name so he did it for me in very clear letters.

Mr Morrell did 90% of the work, but for some reason he showed the class OUR work and he gave me most of the credit. For one day in elementary school my work was among the best in the class and it was posted on the bulletin board for two weeks.

It never happened again and a month or so later we moved on to Jr. High. I never saw Mr. Morrell after that day, but 50 years have passed and I've never forgotten or ever stopped appreciating the day Mr. Morrell gave me a sense of worth and value at a moment in time when I had little if any self-esteem.

Thank you Mr. Morrell, I've never forgotten your kindness so many years ago.

Wow pp. Thanks for this. Love to Mr. Morrell wherever he is.

[Anonymous]

Agreed that many teachers of electives have little to no training in working with kids with SN or classroom mgmt in general. In truth, that’s all of us except SPED teachers. The real difference is not in training, but in hands on experience. Often kids with SN are pulled out to receive services and their pull outs occur during art, music, media, etc so that they don’t miss math, ELA, and PE. As a result, elective teachers don’t always go through the classroom management trial by fire that most classroom teachers experience. One of my first inclusion students was on the spectrum, had loud verbal tics, and frequently soiled himself. It was my first year teaching. My classroom was the appropriate least-restrictive environment for him. We survived. I think he learned from me. I know so learned from him. But he only took core academic classes, PE, and double period social skills. The art, music, FACS, and tech teachers never had him. They missed an opportunity to learn how to teach around loud verbal tics. They missed a chance to learn how to appear calm and be discreet when a student dies something that shocks you. The almost weekly pants-soiling earned me a reputation for being inflappable. I’m not. I just fix my face so fast, people don’t notice.
I’ve noticed that more parents are pushing for their kids to take electives. I think that’s great. Art, music, tech, and FACS are great things to explore as well as a good way to interact with typically developing peers. I wish parents were given more info about the actual learning environment in the elective classroom. My daughter with ADHD did fine in art because she was allowed to listen to music through headphones and was not distracted by classroom chatter. She has cooked independently at home for years, but would not have done well in her school’s FACS class where, for safety reasons, music is not allowed and there is a lot of distracting chatter. I only knew the character of the classes because of having an older child go through the same school.
Obviously, more training is needed for all teachers. Every student benefits from constructive feedback. Those brief interactions, often verbal and off-the-cuff, that are considered best practices for informal assessment can be devastating if not worded carefully and with both growth and objective standards in mind.
Keep the self-portrait up. It will reinforce that you value it. Also, consider turning the incident into a blog post or newsletter item to share with teachers. Many of us can learn from it. And it’s helpful to be able to point to when advocating for more training. The new teachers I mentor have just one course in working with students with SN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to teach and I had parents to kids with special needs want me to only praise and encourage. So I did that, as if that's what the parents want out if their child's education, then I can meet their goal. Their kids didn't learn as much or make as much progress as other kids because praise doesn't teach you much.

At the end of the day teachers are expected to teach to certain learning outcomes and to build skills but there are many teachers like me who are fine with no doing that if it will make the parents happy. It is wortha conversation with the teachers to let them know your goal is just that your child is praised and encouraged and you aren't concerned with learning or learning outcomes. It is always helpful to know as a teacher as different parents have different priorities. It is easier and faster for me to just draw a happy face and write great effort superstar on a page than it is to correct wrong answers or help the student figure out how to do it better next time.

You’re a very dense ‘piece of work’.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to teach and I had parents to kids with special needs want me to only praise and encourage. So I did that, as if that's what the parents want out if their child's education, then I can meet their goal. Their kids didn't learn as much or make as much progress as other kids because praise doesn't teach you much.

At the end of the day teachers are expected to teach to certain learning outcomes and to build skills but there are many teachers like me who are fine with no doing that if it will make the parents happy. It is wortha conversation with the teachers to let them know your goal is just that your child is praised and encouraged and you aren't concerned with learning or learning outcomes. It is always helpful to know as a teacher as different parents have different priorities. It is easier and faster for me to just draw a happy face and write great effort superstar on a page than it is to correct wrong answers or help the student figure out how to do it better next time.

Honestly, it depends on the kid. If you have an aspiring Picasso, giving constructive feedback will be of use to that child. For other kids, art is a time to relax. I was able to teach students with cognitive disabilities art, and they loved just using the materials. So I couldn't always "see" their sculptures, but it was freeing for them just to mold clay and create something. Not everyone is the next Monet and that is OK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I used to teach and I had parents to kids with special needs want me to only praise and encourage. So I did that, as if that's what the parents want out if their child's education, then I can meet their goal. Their kids didn't learn as much or make as much progress as other kids because praise doesn't teach you much.

At the end of the day teachers are expected to teach to certain learning outcomes and to build skills but there are many teachers like me who are fine with no doing that if it will make the parents happy. It is wortha conversation with the teachers to let them know your goal is just that your child is praised and encouraged and you aren't concerned with learning or learning outcomes. It is always helpful to know as a teacher as different parents have different priorities. It is easier and faster for me to just draw a happy face and write great effort superstar on a page than it is to correct wrong answers or help the student figure out how to do it better next time.

The thing is, we are talking about art class. Not science. Not math. Not even music. Art.

I am artistic. Very artistic. My family has many creative and artistic people in our lineage.

The purpose of art is to inspire creativity and to tap into the emotional side of the brain. It is to release inhibitions and to help you to think out of the box.

There is no right or wrong way to create

Yes, there are specific techniques to help you to become a better artist, but at its core, art is about an individual creating what is inspired by his or her soul.

Even an ugly, unbalanced, clashing piece of art can inspire emotion or become a classic. Look at Picasso. Look at Matisse.

Discouraging an elementary kid from creating his version of art by offering only or mostly criticism runs counter to the whole purpose and meaning of art.

Any art teacher worth their salt should know this before they step foot into an elementary classroom.