How to get rid of an ES principal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^

This, folks, is the reason good people leave education.

Good people leave education because of company/office reorganizations? Where do they go that doesn't have company/office reorganizations?

Where did you get that? Good people leave education because of entitled parents.

That as well.

And being unable to afford a middle clsss lifestyle despite a degree and 60+ hour workweeks.

[Anonymous]

class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our ES successfully got our principal to leave.

Some factors:

1. It was his first year as principal and first year working in Montgomery County (he was from Ann Arundel County) so he was under review.

2. An excellent and highly talented PTA that crafted an anonymous survey via survey monkey that was issued to the entire staff. It ultimately reflected the discontentment with his leadership and was sent to central office.

3. Staff contacted and worked with the union (not sure how effective it was, but central was aware and it helped reconcile the survey data).

4. A responsive supervising principal who was present and collected data at the right time (a critical PTA meeting).

You sound like a nightmare.

It sounds like your principal never even got a chance.

I hope s/he quit because of your crazy and found a position at a more reasonable school.

I work at PP’s school (the details make it clear). Principal came up as a teacher and assistant principal in one school system, but never promoted to principal (red flag #1). He was hired as principal in another district where he worked for only two years before interviewing with a new school system (red flag #2). Then MCPS hired him (whyyyyyy? We had a decent acting principal in place who just needed more guidance!). He had a chance, believe me. We wanted to make it work and gave someone around long-term. And he was awful from the start. He hid his lack of ability by bullying staff and outright lying. He got so much help from the leadership and core teams, as well as his principal director and mentor, and never improved. He didn’t meet standards on his evaluation and chose to resign instead of being on probation for a year. He’s now at his second school in Virginia, so things aren’t working out too well down there either.

I think the staff survey was essential in getting the attention of the higher-ups (it showed that over 50% of the respondents were considering leaving the school). The supervisor agreed to meet with individual staff members by appointment. She set up a full day of 15-minute appointments, and then added a second day when staff complained that they didn’t get to sign up before her schedule was filled. It wasn’t a rant session, she gave us three key questions to consider and we met with her to share our responses. It helped her get a clear idea of our perspective. But really, the only reason removing him was on the table was that he was in his first year in MCPS and in a probationary period. And even then, he wasn’t removed, just given another year of probabtion. I think if he hadn’t resigned, and still didn’t meet standard the next year, he would have been demoted. And even THEN, he would probably be an AP, not outright fired from MCPS. MCEA and SEIU filed multiple grievances, but those take a while to work out, and he resigned before they came to any conclusion. Difficult to say how they would have affected to the outcome.

If your school’s principal has been there a while, there is not a whole lot that can be done to remove the principal, but that doesn’t mean you should just sit back and accept your fate. There is one school in MCPS that I know of that had an ineffective principal who was demoted after several years as principal. I don’t know what led to the demotion, though. But she’s still in the system as an AP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^

This, folks, is the reason good people leave education.

Good people leave education because of company/office reorganizations? Where do they go that doesn't have company/office reorganizations?

Where did you get that? Good people leave education because of entitled parents.

Another parent of that school here—you don’t know the whole story. That wasn’t a situation of entitled parents. This was staff and parents working together to save a school and community they love from falling apart. The current principal is very well-respected by all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our ES successfully got our principal to leave.

Some factors:

1. It was his first year as principal and first year working in Montgomery County (he was from Ann Arundel County) so he was under review.

2. An excellent and highly talented PTA that crafted an anonymous survey via survey monkey that was issued to the entire staff. It ultimately reflected the discontentment with his leadership and was sent to central office.

3. Staff contacted and worked with the union (not sure how effective it was, but central was aware and it helped reconcile the survey data).

4. A responsive supervising principal who was present and collected data at the right time (a critical PTA meeting).

This teacher knows what she’s talking about. Principals don’t get fired, they get demoted to the last position where they were successful. But once a principal has been in place for several years you’re going to need a pretty egregious offense or pattern of ineffectual leadership to get anyone to pay attention.

You sound like a nightmare.

It sounds like your principal never even got a chance.

I hope s/he quit because of your crazy and found a position at a more reasonable school.

I work at PP’s school (the details make it clear). Principal came up as a teacher and assistant principal in one school system, but never promoted to principal (red flag #1). He was hired as principal in another district where he worked for only two years before interviewing with a new school system (red flag #2). Then MCPS hired him (whyyyyyy? We had a decent acting principal in place who just needed more guidance!). He had a chance, believe me. We wanted to make it work and gave someone around long-term. And he was awful from the start. He hid his lack of ability by bullying staff and outright lying. He got so much help from the leadership and core teams, as well as his principal director and mentor, and never improved. He didn’t meet standards on his evaluation and chose to resign instead of being on probation for a year. He’s now at his second school in Virginia, so things aren’t working out too well down there either.

I think the staff survey was essential in getting the attention of the higher-ups (it showed that over 50% of the respondents were considering leaving the school). The supervisor agreed to meet with individual staff members by appointment. She set up a full day of 15-minute appointments, and then added a second day when staff complained that they didn’t get to sign up before her schedule was filled. It wasn’t a rant session, she gave us three key questions to consider and we met with her to share our responses. It helped her get a clear idea of our perspective. But really, the only reason removing him was on the table was that he was in his first year in MCPS and in a probationary period. And even then, he wasn’t removed, just given another year of probabtion. I think if he hadn’t resigned, and still didn’t meet standard the next year, he would have been demoted. And even THEN, he would probably be an AP, not outright fired from MCPS. MCEA and SEIU filed multiple grievances, but those take a while to work out, and he resigned before they came to any conclusion. Difficult to say how they would have affected to the outcome.

If your school’s principal has been there a while, there is not a whole lot that can be done to remove the principal, but that doesn’t mean you should just sit back and accept your fate. There is one school in MCPS that I know of that had an ineffective principal who was demoted after several years as principal. I don’t know what led to the demotion, though. But she’s still in the system as an AP.

[Anonymous]

Looks like the new assignment links are up

http://nebula.wsimg.com/d4573365c8dd4ed04eb1fb64adc7a3ff?AccessKeyId=AB71C8A62DC88BF7171E&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

http://nebula.wsimg.com/74e0a86a005e2fcbeff6d3d90835efb9?AccessKeyId=AB71C8A62DC88BF7171E&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

[Anonymous]

Wow they really redid the whole way they do supervision. I think it's better. Now the directors have every school in a cluster, and it looks like they tried to give each director a mix of schools in terms of SES. Anyone know these people? As someone in the Pyle cluster, I'm wondering in particular about the area associate super (cheryl dyson) and the director (brian scriven). Are they strong?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow they really redid the whole way they do supervision. I think it's better. Now the directors have every school in a cluster, and it looks like they tried to give each director a mix of schools in terms of SES. Anyone know these people? As someone in the Pyle cluster, I'm wondering in particular about the area associate super (cheryl dyson) and the director (brian scriven). Are they strong?

cheryl may have a different last name--she's listed as smith in the other document the PP posted

[Anonymous]

We had Dr. Sirgo before the switch and she is awesome! I was so impressed with her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow they really redid the whole way they do supervision. I think it's better. Now the directors have every school in a cluster, and it looks like they tried to give each director a mix of schools in terms of SES. Anyone know these people? As someone in the Pyle cluster, I'm wondering in particular about the area associate super (cheryl dyson) and the director (brian scriven). Are they strong?

I wonder why they have Sligo MS and its feeder schools grouped with Kennedy instead of Einstein.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looks like the new assignment links are up

http://nebula.wsimg.com/d4573365c8dd4ed04eb1fb64adc7a3ff?AccessKeyId=AB71C8A62DC88BF7171E&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

http://nebula.wsimg.com/74e0a86a005e2fcbeff6d3d90835efb9?AccessKeyId=AB71C8A62DC88BF7171E&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

Whoa, where’s Greg Edmundson? I’m hopeful our new one will be more attentive and perceptive to issues with the principal of my school and be able to see beyond the dog and pony show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like the new assignment links are up

http://nebula.wsimg.com/d4573365c8dd4ed04eb1fb64adc7a3ff?AccessKeyId=AB71C8A62DC88BF7171E&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

http://nebula.wsimg.com/74e0a86a005e2fcbeff6d3d90835efb9?AccessKeyId=AB71C8A62DC88BF7171E&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

Whoa, where’s Greg Edmundson? I’m hopeful our new one will be more attentive and perceptive to issues with the principal of my school and be able to see beyond the dog and pony show.

Wims ES

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like the new assignment links are up

http://nebula.wsimg.com/d4573365c8dd4ed04eb1fb64adc7a3ff?AccessKeyId=AB71C8A62DC88BF7171E&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

http://nebula.wsimg.com/74e0a86a005e2fcbeff6d3d90835efb9?AccessKeyId=AB71C8A62DC88BF7171E&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

Whoa, where’s Greg Edmundson? I’m hopeful our new one will be more attentive and perceptive to issues with the principal of my school and be able to see beyond the dog and pony show.

Wims ES

Huh? My kids go to Wims and I haven’t heard about this. Is he the new AP? That seems like quite the demotion considering he was the principal’s boss previously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like the new assignment links are up

http://nebula.wsimg.com/d4573365c8dd4ed04eb1fb64adc7a3ff?AccessKeyId=AB71C8A62DC88BF7171E&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

http://nebula.wsimg.com/74e0a86a005e2fcbeff6d3d90835efb9?AccessKeyId=AB71C8A62DC88BF7171E&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

Whoa, where’s Greg Edmundson? I’m hopeful our new one will be more attentive and perceptive to issues with the principal of my school and be able to see beyond the dog and pony show.

Wims ES

Huh? My kids go to Wims and I haven’t heard about this. Is he the new AP? That seems like quite the demotion considering he was the principal’s boss previously.

Apparently yes: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/directory/index.aspx?searchName=greg%20edmundson

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like the new assignment links are up

http://nebula.wsimg.com/d4573365c8dd4ed04eb1fb64adc7a3ff?AccessKeyId=AB71C8A62DC88BF7171E&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

http://nebula.wsimg.com/74e0a86a005e2fcbeff6d3d90835efb9?AccessKeyId=AB71C8A62DC88BF7171E&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

Whoa, where’s Greg Edmundson? I’m hopeful our new one will be more attentive and perceptive to issues with the principal of my school and be able to see beyond the dog and pony show.

Wims ES

Huh? My kids go to Wims and I haven’t heard about this. Is he the new AP? That seems like quite the demotion considering he was the principal’s boss previously.

Apparently yes: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/directory/index.aspx?searchName=greg%20edmundson

Weird....they're also friends and play in a band together. Hopefully this will go well!