NY Times article on twins and infertility

[Anonymous]

The article mixes apples and oranges. Difficulty conceiving is not the same as difficulty carrying to term. The twins in the picture were premature because the mother had an incompetent cervix. That was not caused by IVF.

[Anonymous]

The book one of the PPs talked about is "Everything Inconceivable" or something like that. It is accepted scientific fact that the fertility drugs do havoc to one's system. The lack of discussion about the ethical implications of creating children through donor eggs and sperm is reprehensible in itself. Aren't we supposed to question ourselves and ethics of taking on new technology? Otherwise what on earth distinguishes us from apes? Human beings have moved forward when they have been willing to ask hard questions and make joint decisions on the same. Its not clear to most people that conceiving children via donor eggs and sperm is good for the children. (Even the parents of these children.) What on earth are you going to tell these children when they ask questions? Yes, darling you are a little experiment we had to do because we couldn't bear being infertile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The book one of the PPs talked about is "Everything Inconceivable" or something like that. It is accepted scientific fact that the fertility drugs do havoc to one's system. The lack of discussion about the ethical implications of creating children through donor eggs and sperm is reprehensible in itself. Aren't we supposed to question ourselves and ethics of taking on new technology? Otherwise what on earth distinguishes us from apes? Human beings have moved forward when they have been willing to ask hard questions and make joint decisions on the same. Its not clear to most people that conceiving children via donor eggs and sperm is good for the children. (Even the parents of these children.) What on earth are you going to tell these children when they ask questions? Yes, darling you are a little experiment we had to do because we couldn't bear being infertile.

Why do people like you come to a forum with the title "support" in it? Obviously, all you are here to do is condemn people who are in a horrible situation.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure who I am addressing this to but I just have to say...

Adoption, adoption, adoption...thats all I read. Why don't people just "adopt.? Such an easy and thoughtless answer to such a complicated situation. Adoption is not the big answer to this fertility debate. Damn, I WISH adoption were that easy. If it were, there would be even more people willing to adopt (there already are lots of waiting couples out there) and less countries closing their doors to international adoption. But you have to understand that often adoption is MORE EXPENSIVE than fertility treatments, including IVF and it can also be more emotionally and even physically draining. You are not guaranteed a child when you chose to adopt and quite often, after waiting several years, those children who are available for adoption require special needs that many adoptive parents simply aren't able to provide (especially after they just spent their entire life savings trying to adopt the kid in the first place!). Adoption can be a great experience for some couples but also a nightmare for others.

People have to understand that while IVF, IUI, fertility drugs, donor eggs and donor sperm are NEVER what people seek out to involve in their family building process, many times these are the ONLY options we have because adoption is no easy solution. I don't know any of us who truly want to use injections and donor sperm as our only way to have a child... but adoption isn't always a better option.

And maybe if this country didn't place such a huge emphasis on the "nuclear family" and children as the main components to a family, maybe you would see more and more people/couples choosing to remain childless instead of feeling pressured to have a family, even at all costs (to themselves, their unborn children, their coworkers and the insurance industry etc). When my husband and I moved into our first home, the first thing our neighbors asked us was why we didn't have any children!! We were looked at funny and even judged just because we didn't have any kids at the age of 32. We have always wanted a family but society'se xpectations sure haven't helped to ease the pressure. We've felt like we've had to run, not walk to the nearest fertility clinic the moment we realized my husband had a poor sperm count.

Instead of judging those of us who are undergoing ART to have children, maybe we need to focus more on the reasons why so many of us are having trouble having children to begin with. You can't blame everything on "genetics" or neatly call it "unexplained infertility." I would start by looking at our environment and the history of toxins we have been ingesting since birth as some of the clues behind what our real problems are. Stop judging, stop pointing fingers at only one group of people.

[Anonymous]

You want people not to question you. As you said, you are doing things out of desperation. I am sorry for you, but you need to be questioned. My kids could end up falling in love with your weird biotech kids one day!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You want people not to question you. As you said, you are doing things out of desperation. I am sorry for you, but you need to be questioned. My kids could end up falling in love with your weird biotech kids one day!

This poster is a total freak and I hope one day my "weird biotech kid" does indeed fall in love, marry your child and inflict total chaos on you and your family! Why are you even on this board? You have no life and clearly are pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You want people not to question you. As you said, you are doing things out of desperation. I am sorry for you, but you need to be questioned. My kids could end up falling in love with your weird biotech kids one day!

And you need to get a life instead of trolling the internet, making stupid comments.

[Anonymous]

Geez, I am now terrified that my wonderful child could fall in love with your child - who wants to deal with a FIL/MIL who is so judgmental, critical, close-minded and frankly mean. You need to get a grip.

[Anonymous]

Why are people who had no difficulty conceiving on a board called "TTC Discussion and Support" -- shouldn't they be too busy spending time with the kids they are lucky enough to have to be commenting on a board for people trying to get pregnant. It would be like me (married and with no children) going on the single moms board and giving them advice, or worse, judging them. Argh!!!!

[Anonymous]

PP raised salient issues but in the wrong place, I agree. It would be better to start a separate thread in Off Topic.

[Anonymous]

This is my favorite place to get and give support. I am horrified today to see the hateful posts against those of us undergoing IF treatments.

[Anonymous]

Many people on this board are people who are currently ttc but not at the "fertility issue" point. I was the poster with two healthy kids who noted that a lot of the judgemental folks are people who have had an easy time of conception. I see my point should be well taken since there have been many posts suggesting that you should adopt if you have fertility issues or do everything you can to avoid twins. I am sorry-I sort of discard all the mean advice because if you want to have kids "bio" you will do everything you can to make that happen and only when you are at the point where you say ..let' go to adoption..it is when you feel you have done everything and sorry I would be the first in line to try new technology to make it happen and I wouldn't care what anyone thinks. I know a lot of kids born from fertility treatments and they are fine. I also know kids born from parents without fertility treatments who have some issues so I am not convinced that fertility treatments are the problem. I also feel like there is a growing prejudice to circumvent older moms by championing only one embryo transfers. This would be a game ender for many women over forty. I also fear changes in healthcare that could put the government in charge could make this a reality. In the end, women are our worst enemy.

[Anonymous]

To all the women who are contending with infertility -

Ignore the many inconsiderate and ignorant posts on this thread. There are many ways to build a family, and no one way is right. It is a decision for each of us to make. There are clearly people posting who have no idea how much of fertility treatment works. And they also assume people go into decisions lightly, without thought and reason. A few bad apples tend to fan these flames (think octomom).

Go on, and do what's right for you, and know that when you get the child you're longing for, it will be the right path and right child for you, not matter what route you take.

To the posters who are purposely being provocative, do not spend time on this board, as it's for people seeking support with trying to conceive. If you can't offer support, offer nothing at all.

To anyone who wants more information about donor gametes and other techniques used in reproductive technology, I recommend you go to www.resolve.org or www.sart.org. These groups provide credible information, but people who know what they're talking about.

[Anonymous]

I'd just like to chime in here as someone who speaks from experience with both infertility AND adoption.

I am a HUGE advocate of adoption. I myself was adopted internationally, and I have an adopted daughter. My husband and I also have fertility issues and were told we would never get pregnant without IVF/ICSI, which we chose not to pursue. In the end, adoption was an easier (and almost the same price as IVF) option, much less emotionally and physically draining for me.

I think more people should consider adoption as a way to build a family- both people with fertility issues AND people who have no fertility issues. Why is adoption only the avenue for infertile people? Why don't more people who are able to have children easily consider adoption? Adoption for us was the most preferable way to have a family, but it's not for everyone and it's certainly not the responsibility of infertile people to adopt and no one else.

I'd just like to say that we should be more supportive of each other no matter how we choose to build our families. Honestly, I don't understand the need to have a bio child, and that's one reason why adoption works for me. But I totally respect that someone else might feel just the opposite. All the people who say "adopt, adopt, adopt"- well, what did they ask when we announced we were adopting? They asked why we did international versus domestic and why didn't we want our own kids. No matther how you build your family, you just can't win.

Please people- no more slams against fertility treatments and no more horror stories about adoption. I would like to think that people pursuing either would be educated enough to make their own judgments.

[Anonymous]

Its easy to say that these are hateful posts. A few people have mentioned the points are salient while not posted in the nicest possible way. I am infertile, and have gone through many unsuccessful treatments. I've also read "Everything Inconceivable". The book is truly not slanted one way or the other, but it brings up the same points about donor gametes, health risks to mom and kids in taking the drugs, etc. It also talks at length about the lack of government oversight. The drugs made me feel sick, the book made me think again. I discussed with various doctors in our family (we are lucky to have several) and we have discontinued treatments. The medical profession and the fertility industry is set up right now to let folks do whatever they want as long as they can pay for it. They are profiting from it, so few are asking about the ethics or the health risks. These are the facts. If you can find a doctor in the family you trust they will tell you about the uncertainties involves and the extent to which you and your future children are guinea pigs. (But remember, most will not because they are making money from you and your treatments.) Besides it does not take a rocket scientist to start questioning the psychological fate of the kids born using donor gametes. When I started thinking about what it actually MEANS, I got the chills! Also, what does it do to a woman to be a gestational surrogate? How far is it from a form of prostitution? What do you all think about gestational surrogates in India and Africa, who are "wombs" for wealthy westerners? All of this truly started to bother me, so I backed off. (Heartbreaking to know I won't have biological children.)

People have said that only supporters should write on this forum. But I don't think there is any harm in questioning what is going on. Would you rather not have thought this through than not have thought it through? People get pretty desperate to have a child. I know this from experience.