What's wrong with "shift schedules"? (APS)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I did the schedule you are imaging in high school. I graduated in 2010. We have “zero” hour that started at 7:30ish. Then some more students came for first period then everyone was there for 2-6. Then students started ending their day. For athletes that practiced after school, they didn’t take zero hour. The early morning classes were a mix of everything from gen ed to AP. If you went a traditional school day your hours were 9:15-4:30. It worked well. It let you take classes early to get kids to work in the afternoon or let the non early risers come in later. I had 1800 kids in my graduating class, so I’m familiar with big schools.

I don't see how that solves the over crowding problem. I see how it solves other issues, like getting kids who need to work out early, or allowing kids to take an extra subject. But if you've got all your kids there is some periods, then you still need the same sized building.

So extreme crowding it doesn’t solve, but it did open up more class slots so the classes all didn’t have 36+ people in them. For instance, instead of only 5 AP sections offered during the typical day, but the zero hour opened 2 more sections.

That's not going to work here, because the issue we have is trying to fit more than 3,000 students into schools that were built for closer to 2200 students. Shift schedules only work to solve this crowding if there's never an overlap of shifts where there are more than the max students in the building. And, good luck finding qualified teachers who want to teach at night. Almost all the experienced teachers I know are parents themselves. Basically, all the second shifters are going to get is new college hires, and there will be a lot of attrition as those teachers age out of a lifestyle that doesn't accommodate family life.

[Anonymous]

Split shifts are horrible. They disrupt sleep schedules and can lead to poor study habits. By even tossing out the idea for discussion, Arlington officials are sending a clear message they don't really care about families who'll have kids in high school over the next decade.

[Anonymous]

A loss of community, connectedness among students.

[Anonymous]

I went to a large (4,000+ students) high school with shift schedules. From sophomore year onward, my classes began around 7 and ended around noon. The last period was lunch and that wasn't mandatory. Getting up at 5 am wasn't fun but otherwise, I loved it. It made it easy for me get to an after school job, do an extracurricular, and still have plenty of time to do homework.

There's nothing wrong with shift schedules. It's good solution to student overpopulation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to a large (4,000+ students) high school with shift schedules. From sophomore year onward, my classes began around 7 and ended around noon. The last period was lunch and that wasn't mandatory. Getting up at 5 am wasn't fun but otherwise, I loved it. It made it easy for me get to an after school job, do an extracurricular, and still have plenty of time to do homework.

There's nothing wrong with shift schedules. It's good solution to student overpopulation.

What was the schedule like for the afternoon kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to a large (4,000+ students) high school with shift schedules. From sophomore year onward, my classes began around 7 and ended around noon. The last period was lunch and that wasn't mandatory. Getting up at 5 am wasn't fun but otherwise, I loved it. It made it easy for me get to an after school job, do an extracurricular, and still have plenty of time to do homework.

There's nothing wrong with shift schedules. It's good solution to student overpopulation.

It's a solution of last resort for a system in a death spiral.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a large (4,000+ students) high school with shift schedules. From sophomore year onward, my classes began around 7 and ended around noon. The last period was lunch and that wasn't mandatory. Getting up at 5 am wasn't fun but otherwise, I loved it. It made it easy for me get to an after school job, do an extracurricular, and still have plenty of time to do homework.

There's nothing wrong with shift schedules. It's good solution to student overpopulation.

It's a solution of last resort for a system in a death spiral.

There is no death spiral. If it gets that bad people will leave Arlington for Fairfax, and that will be that.
Shift scheduling sounds great if it is optional. I don’t know how many kids would self select into earlier start times for less crowded classes.

[Anonymous]

As a PP pointed out, shift schedules only work if they are voluntary. I would think that any high schooler interested in any extracurricular is going to opt into an early schedule, as will kids who need to work after school. Do you therefore end up with the majority of kids in the early block? Now you have to double up on busses and transportation costs since their start time will overlap with the middle schoolers.

Similar to lottery options, what happens if you don't have enough kids to split the difference? If 2,600 of those 3,000 kids choose the early shift, now you still have overcrowding plus you have to pay extra for teachers for those afternoon kids.

Do you offer all classes at both times? If not, kids who are college bound and care about both AP classes and extracurriculars are going to want those AP classes in the morning, so now you may also inadvertently contribute to tracking or dividing the classes along intellectual or economic lines.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a PP pointed out, shift schedules only work if they are voluntary. I would think that any high schooler interested in any extracurricular is going to opt into an early schedule, as will kids who need to work after school. Do you therefore end up with the majority of kids in the early block? Now you have to double up on busses and transportation costs since their start time will overlap with the middle schoolers.

Similar to lottery options, what happens if you don't have enough kids to split the difference? If 2,600 of those 3,000 kids choose the early shift, now you still have overcrowding plus you have to pay extra for teachers for those afternoon kids.

Do you offer all classes at both times? If not, kids who are college bound and care about both AP classes and extracurriculars are going to want those AP classes in the morning, so now you may also inadvertently contribute to tracking or dividing the classes along intellectual or economic lines.

It's probably not all that inadvertent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a large (4,000+ students) high school with shift schedules. From sophomore year onward, my classes began around 7 and ended around noon. The last period was lunch and that wasn't mandatory. Getting up at 5 am wasn't fun but otherwise, I loved it. It made it easy for me get to an after school job, do an extracurricular, and still have plenty of time to do homework.

There's nothing wrong with shift schedules. It's good solution to student overpopulation.

It's a solution of last resort for a system in a death spiral.

There is no death spiral. If it gets that bad people will leave Arlington for Fairfax, and that will be that.
Shift scheduling sounds great if it is optional. I don’t know how many kids would self select into earlier start times for less crowded classes.

That's exactly what a school system death spiral looks like. People with the economic means to make different choices WILL make different choices. The kids left behind will be those who are high-needs and they will inherit a system with fewer resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a large (4,000+ students) high school with shift schedules. From sophomore year onward, my classes began around 7 and ended around noon. The last period was lunch and that wasn't mandatory. Getting up at 5 am wasn't fun but otherwise, I loved it. It made it easy for me get to an after school job, do an extracurricular, and still have plenty of time to do homework.

There's nothing wrong with shift schedules. It's good solution to student overpopulation.

It's a solution of last resort for a system in a death spiral.

There is no death spiral. If it gets that bad people will leave Arlington for Fairfax, and that will be that.
Shift scheduling sounds great if it is optional. I don’t know how many kids would self select into earlier start times for less crowded classes.

Some of us already left Arlington for Fairfax. Others who might have moved to Arlington will stay in DC or move to Montgomery or Fairfax instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a large (4,000+ students) high school with shift schedules. From sophomore year onward, my classes began around 7 and ended around noon. The last period was lunch and that wasn't mandatory. Getting up at 5 am wasn't fun but otherwise, I loved it. It made it easy for me get to an after school job, do an extracurricular, and still have plenty of time to do homework.

There's nothing wrong with shift schedules. It's good solution to student overpopulation.

It's a solution of last resort for a system in a death spiral.

There is no death spiral. If it gets that bad people will leave Arlington for Fairfax, and that will be that.
Shift scheduling sounds great if it is optional. I don’t know how many kids would self select into earlier start times for less crowded classes.

Some of us already left Arlington for Fairfax. Others who might have moved to Arlington will stay in DC or move to Montgomery or Fairfax instead.

Exactly. That’s exactly the long term solution Libby Garvey is looking for. Demanding UMC Families with kids move elsewhere. That’s the way it used to be. They want it to be like before. Go be FFX county’s problem. Arlington will happily educate fewer of the UMC kids. Poor familes don’t complain. Most are illegal immigrants and Don’t want attention drawn to themselves or their familes.
The true blue “liberals” will stay, and they are committed to supporting the status quo. They would never criticize the system.
They would like the rest of you to bugger off.

[Anonymous]

I would support it if there were enough demand to make it feasible and it were optional. It wouldn’t have any takers from our house, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to a large (4,000+ students) high school with shift schedules. From sophomore year onward, my classes began around 7 and ended around noon. The last period was lunch and that wasn't mandatory. Getting up at 5 am wasn't fun but otherwise, I loved it. It made it easy for me get to an after school job, do an extracurricular, and still have plenty of time to do homework.

There's nothing wrong with shift schedules. It's good solution to student overpopulation.

It's a solution of last resort for a system in a death spiral.

There is no death spiral. If it gets that bad people will leave Arlington for Fairfax, and that will be that.
Shift scheduling sounds great if it is optional. I don’t know how many kids would self select into earlier start times for less crowded classes.

Some of us already left Arlington for Fairfax. Others who might have moved to Arlington will stay in DC or move to Montgomery or Fairfax instead.

OK. Why are you chiming in on APS posts? Do you have experience with shift schedules or not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a PP pointed out, shift schedules only work if they are voluntary. I would think that any high schooler interested in any extracurricular is going to opt into an early schedule, as will kids who need to work after school. Do you therefore end up with the majority of kids in the early block? Now you have to double up on busses and transportation costs since their start time will overlap with the middle schoolers.

Similar to lottery options, what happens if you don't have enough kids to split the difference? If 2,600 of those 3,000 kids choose the early shift, now you still have overcrowding plus you have to pay extra for teachers for those afternoon kids.

Do you offer all classes at both times? If not, kids who are college bound and care about both AP classes and extracurriculars are going to want those AP classes in the morning, so now you may also inadvertently contribute to tracking or dividing the classes along intellectual or economic lines.

You've just laid out precisely why shift schedules only work if they are NOT voluntary.