To the individuals who have a low opinion of public schools - downcounty, eastern MCPS, and NWDC esp

[Anonymous]

Banneker was ranked 164. Wilson was 240. Sw/oW was 370.

By contrast, in the top 100 were:
37, HB Woodlawn in Arlington
39, Richard Montgomery, Rockville
56, BCC, Bethesda
59, Wooton, Rockville
67, George Mason, Ralls Church
68, Washington-Lee, Arlington
72, Woodson, Fairfax
95, Churchill, Potomac
99, Yorktown, Arlington

FWIW, I grew up in DC/MD and went to a large MoCo public high school. I got an excellent education, but there was no one there to push me or mentor me, which I (naively?) imagine might have been the case at a private school. I floated through easily and was well-prepared for college.

My own kids went to a well-regarded DCPS from which we fled for MoCo schools. To leave was a relief. In DCPS, even in NW DC, we experienced very few teachers who actually cared enough to teach beyond the bare minimum. We experienced several who were fairly poorly educated (poor speakers, grammatical and spelling errors in written material, etc.). A few teachers were non-communicative. Many did not know how to effectively manage the classroom with positive discipline (surprisingly, mostly the older more experienced ones). Our experience in MoCo has been light years different in a positive way.

Whether DCPS might stack up well next to, say, Houston schools or Des Moines schools, is irrelevant to me. I don't live there. Those aren't my choices.

IMO, the DCPS bashing is well-deserved. The system has been corrupt and ineffective for years. There are many explanations (socioeconomics, racism, politics), but in the end there is no excuse for it; the citizens of DC deserve public schools every bit as good as those in the suburbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Banneker was ranked 164. Wilson was 240. Sw/oW was 370.

By contrast, in the top 100 were:
37, HB Woodlawn in Arlington
39, Richard Montgomery, Rockville
56, BCC, Bethesda
59, Wooton, Rockville
67, George Mason, Ralls Church
68, Washington-Lee, Arlington
72, Woodson, Fairfax
95, Churchill, Potomac
99, Yorktown, Arlington

FWIW, I grew up in DC/MD and went to a large MoCo public high school. I got an excellent education, but there was no one there to push me or mentor me, which I (naively?) imagine might have been the case at a private school. I floated through easily and was well-prepared for college.

My own kids went to a well-regarded DCPS from which we fled for MoCo schools. To leave was a relief. In DCPS, even in NW DC, we experienced very few teachers who actually cared enough to teach beyond the bare minimum. We experienced several who were fairly poorly educated (poor speakers, grammatical and spelling errors in written material, etc.). A few teachers were non-communicative. Many did not know how to effectively manage the classroom with positive discipline (surprisingly, mostly the older more experienced ones). Our experience in MoCo has been light years different in a positive way.

Whether DCPS might stack up well next to, say, Houston schools or Des Moines schools, is irrelevant to me. I don't live there. Those aren't my choices.

IMO, the DCPS bashing is well-deserved. The system has been corrupt and ineffective for years. There are many explanations (socioeconomics, racism, politics), but in the end there is no excuse for it; the citizens of DC deserve public schools every bit as good as those in the suburbs.

Well of course they do. However, certain DCPS schools outperform their suburban counterparts so a generalized "DC vs. suburbs" is ignorant and unhelpful. How about naming the schools you had personal experiences with? THAT would be the difference between shedding light and generating heat. If you understand what that means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Banneker was ranked 164. Wilson was 240. Sw/oW was 370.

By contrast, in the top 100 were:
37, HB Woodlawn in Arlington
39, Richard Montgomery, Rockville
56, BCC, Bethesda
59, Wooton, Rockville
67, George Mason, Ralls Church
68, Washington-Lee, Arlington
72, Woodson, Fairfax
95, Churchill, Potomac
99, Yorktown, Arlington

FWIW, I grew up in DC/MD and went to a large MoCo public high school. I got an excellent education, but there was no one there to push me or mentor me, which I (naively?) imagine might have been the case at a private school. I floated through easily and was well-prepared for college.

My own kids went to a well-regarded DCPS from which we fled for MoCo schools. To leave was a relief. In DCPS, even in NW DC, we experienced very few teachers who actually cared enough to teach beyond the bare minimum. We experienced several who were fairly poorly educated (poor speakers, grammatical and spelling errors in written material, etc.). A few teachers were non-communicative. Many did not know how to effectively manage the classroom with positive discipline (surprisingly, mostly the older more experienced ones). Our experience in MoCo has been light years different in a positive way.

Whether DCPS might stack up well next to, say, Houston schools or Des Moines schools, is irrelevant to me. I don't live there. Those aren't my choices.

IMO, the DCPS bashing is well-deserved. The system has been corrupt and ineffective for years. There are many explanations (socioeconomics, racism, politics), but in the end there is no excuse for it; the citizens of DC deserve public schools every bit as good as those in the suburbs.

Well of course they do. However, certain DCPS schools outperform their suburban counterparts so a generalized "DC vs. suburbs" is ignorant and unhelpful. How about naming the schools you had personal experiences with? THAT would be the difference between shedding light and generating heat. If you understand what that means.

What you say is true but there's a big difference between having to make sure you end up and a particular school and being able to go to any school in the county. for a great education. And a lot of those people that love those great schools in upper NW still leave the system for middle and high school and that is not a situation a lot of people want to deal with. This happens far less frequently to their suburban counterparts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My prejudice against public schools is based on this:

* I want my child to learn how to think critically and analytically;

* I want my child to love learning and be a life-long learner;

* I want my DC surrounded by others kids whose parents put a very high value on education.

.... Public schools *have* to teach to the test. It is something of a miracle if a public school teacher also happens to instill a love of learning, a true understanding of the material and allows the freedom for independent thinking; the teachers (in general) don't have the time, administration's support, or training to do so.

( and I'll add these points to those that above already been made: I want my kid to be able to write and to actually understand math, not be mad accelerated and skip over fundamentals. I want my child to be taught at his/her level with his/her intellectual peers.)

I live in the Down County. Same issues here. It's not that I have a low opinion of public schools (I went to public school in the Northeast, my kids have spent the bulk of their education in MCPS). It's that I have high expectations and I want the rhetoric of the system to meet the reality. Sure, MCPS is probably better than many many school systems around the country. But they "sell" Bethesda when the reality in many parts of the county is more like White Oak. The amount of BS parents will convince themselves of because "MCPS schools are so good" and they want to keep their real estate prices high galls me. We can do better.

In the meantime, check this story in the Takoma Voice: http://www.takoma.com/archives/copy/2009/10/schoolscene1009.html

[Anonymous]

We live right by Kennedy in SS. We love our little neighborhood and I'm sure DD would probably be fine at the elementary school. Similar to a PP though - as she gets older, I want her in a school that predominently has a "good crowd" of kids. With all the fights and stuff you hear about at Kennedy (and I'm assuming likely at the middle school level too), we plan to move by the time she's done w/ elementary at the latest.

The academics might be comparable - especially if you're willing to put in time at home to make sure she's getting the most out of her education. But the student bodies are not.

[Anonymous]

I went to 2 different public elementary schools growing up: lafayette and then chevy chase elementary. While I would say that Ch Ch Elem was overall a positive experience, it was certainly not anywhere as good as I consider some of the loca privates in the area to be (DC is at one of them and I later transferred to one as a child). Lafayette, was an utter catastrophe. While socially it was a good experience, in every other way it was horrible--truly horrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

In the meantime, check this story in the Takoma Voice: http://www.takoma.com/archives/copy/2009/10/schoolscene1009.html

Interesting article.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Sure, MCPS is probably better than many many school systems around the country. But they "sell" Bethesda when the reality in many parts of the county is more like White Oak. The amount of BS parents will convince themselves of because "MCPS schools are so good" and they want to keep their real estate prices high galls me. We can do better.

I totally agree with this. It's all about PR; MCPS isn't nearly as great as it (loudly and insistently) says it is.

[Anonymous]

I went to one of the top public high schools in MoCo. I literally did NOTHING (never studied, never did homework, skipped classes) and I got by with a B- average. Now, I am not proud of that...and once I got into college, I was an A student. It is because of that, that I will most likely not be sending my child to public school. The fact a student could do nothing and still get a B average is not acceptable! My sister on the other hand went to Maret...if she did what I did, she would have been held back, failed, or gotten kicked out!

School bored me to tears. I am a very visual and hands on learner, so when they put movies on in my classes or we did projects...that is when I obtained the info. When I was in school in the 90's it was not at all geared toward the visual learners...and it's a shame they cannot figure out how to do both consistently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Banneker was ranked 164. Wilson was 240. Sw/oW was 370.

By contrast, in the top 100 were:
37, HB Woodlawn in Arlington
39, Richard Montgomery, Rockville
56, BCC, Bethesda
59, Wooton, Rockville
67, George Mason, Ralls Church
68, Washington-Lee, Arlington
72, Woodson, Fairfax
95, Churchill, Potomac
99, Yorktown, Arlington

These rankings are based on Jay Matthews' "Challenge Index" - it reflects how many AP or IB exams students at a school take, but not how well they actually do on those tests. I'm not saying that the schools in the Newsweek "Top 100" aren't good schools, as they probably are, but it's sad to see parents latch on to such rankings without realizing that a school could be highly rated under this methodology, even if its students perform poorly on the advanced exams and don't earn any college credits.

[Anonymous]

I went to Fairfax County public schools through early high school. I was in the Gifted and Talented program and was near the top of my class in pretty much every subject. Then I moved to a local private school. What a world of difference. The sophistication of the writing, the foreign language skills, and the arts and sports skills of the kids were all at a different level completely. I caught up after about a year and wound up doing well, but I gave up the notion that my public school program was all that the newspapers, etc. had praised it to be. I was lucky to have had the chance to show what I could do with the private school opportunity, but a number of my friends from public school really didn't. They did just fine academically and, though we've lost, would guess that they are doing well. But, these are kids who considered themselves very lucky to get into UVA or William and Mary (which, of course, are fabulous schools and absolutely nothing to sneeze at). However, I considered myself their academic peer and had my choice of multiple Ivy schools. Times have changed, though, so I certainly want to investigate all options, public and private. And in these times where TJ and the wonderful magnets may be available, there's all the more to take into account.

I think there's a lot of sorting out to do in looking at any school option, public or private. I just happened to have experienced a highly-regarded public school program that just didn't stack up to the private school alternative.

[Anonymous]

"These rankings are based on Jay Matthews' "Challenge Index" - it reflects how many AP or IB exams students at a school take, but not how well they actually do on those tests. I'm not saying that the schools in the Newsweek "Top 100" aren't good schools, as they probably are, but it's sad to see parents latch on to such rankings without realizing that a school could be highly rated under this methodology, even if its students perform poorly on the advanced exams and don't earn any college credits. "

Absolutely. The Newsweek list is not "the best schools". That's ridiculous given that they're based on the Challenge INdex and that has nothing to do with whether a school is good or even a place you'd want to send your own kids - it's ONLY based on the very very narrow metric of how many kids do AP exams. To me, it's virtually useless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"These rankings are based on Jay Matthews' "Challenge Index" - it reflects how many AP or IB exams students at a school take, but not how well they actually do on those tests. I'm not saying that the schools in the Newsweek "Top 100" aren't good schools, as they probably are, but it's sad to see parents latch on to such rankings without realizing that a school could be highly rated under this methodology, even if its students perform poorly on the advanced exams and don't earn any college credits. "

Absolutely. The Newsweek list is not "the best schools". That's ridiculous given that they're based on the Challenge INdex and that has nothing to do with whether a school is good or even a place you'd want to send your own kids - it's ONLY based on the very very narrow metric of how many kids do AP exams. To me, it's virtually useless.

Jay Matthews is an idiot. Anyone who takes his "challenge index" seriously is indeed challenged. If you want a real view of the classroom, read columns written by Patrick Welsh instead.

[Anonymous]

Jay Matthews' ratings are based on how well schools are serving underserved or struggling students. The schools he praises are not academic powerhouses because he doesn't think those schools need the attention. So, consider his agenda when assessing his rankings. After all, he sent his own kids to private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to Fairfax County public schools through early high school. I was in the Gifted and Talented program and was near the top of my class in pretty much every subject. Then I moved to a local private school. What a world of difference. The sophistication of the writing, the foreign language skills, and the arts and sports skills of the kids were all at a different level completely. I caught up after about a year and wound up doing well, but I gave up the notion that my public school program was all that the newspapers, etc. had praised it to be. I was lucky to have had the chance to show what I could do with the private school opportunity, but a number of my friends from public school really didn't. They did just fine academically and, though we've lost, would guess that they are doing well. But, these are kids who considered themselves very lucky to get into UVA or William and Mary (which, of course, are fabulous schools and absolutely nothing to sneeze at). However, I considered myself their academic peer and had my choice of multiple Ivy schools. Times have changed, though, so I certainly want to investigate all options, public and private. And in these times where TJ and the wonderful magnets may be available, there's all the more to take into account.

I think there's a lot of sorting out to do in looking at any school option, public or private. I just happened to have experienced a highly-regarded public school program that just didn't stack up to the private school alternative.

I had somewhat the opposite experience. I went to DCPS (not as highly regarded as Fairfax to be sure), but many of my friends went to to top area private schools. Our college acceptances were generally of the same caliber, and if you were to now compare our careers in terms of typical measures of prestige/success, you'd be hard pressed to figure out which of us was a product of private vs. public schools. I would also say that in my professional life, I've met many graduates of the "better" public school systems in the area, and again, it's hard to differentiate people based on the schools they attended. I know pp is focusing on college acceptances, but my experience has been that there are so many different factors that affect college acceptance and later life "success" that I'm unsure how much of a "real life" advantage private school provides.