I couldn't bring myself to read about Rhee in today's Post magazine...

[Anonymous]

My son was one of perhaps 4 white students in our neighborhood school for kindergarten through first grade. He loved his school, his teachers, and his classmates. He was furious when I pulled him out early in second grade and enrolled him in a charter school. Coincidentally, I'm currently reading "Why Are All The Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?": A Psychologist Explains the Development of Racial Identity (Paperback) by Beverly Daniel Tatum. She discusses the issue of being "the only" from both perspectives.

[Anonymous]

I am the poster who was the only white in the class. Of course I can imagine it. I lived it.

However, that being said--there are other things that go into a 'script' besides white-ness. Affluence. Education. Perspective. When I lived overseas and went to a prestigious Indian convent school I was still the only white girl in the class, but felt completely at home. I related on so many levels to the girls there. Do you have an explanation for why that did not carry through to being the only white girl in the class in inner city parochial DC? All I know is, it didn't. Worrying about being jumped (even though no-one was targeting me, it was a constant source of speculation and excitement on the FIFTH grade playground who would be next....!) sort of filled and fogged my mind with a constant stress level that I have never felt before or since.

I have seen the only black student in the class in more prestigious schools. Are there strains therein? Of course. Questions of parent background and perspective also come into play though. This child's parents are obviously not choosing to send their child to inner city DC AA. Why? And do you think their child would be comfy there?

[Anonymous]

You know, I go back and forth on Rhee. I admire what she's trying to do and I hope she succeeds.

Still, she harbors a fantasy of total victory. She spells out what it would look like if she wins her battle with the union: "The biggest change that will be tangible and palpable won't be a mass exodus of thousands of teachers, but every school -- can I say this? -- will be able to have the people they want. It is so deflating to people in the system and to parents when a school is told you can't hire that great teacher from Montgomery County because we have 10 people in that classification who are ahead of that person. Don't ask me to go out and sell that policy to parents, because it's idiotic -- and they know it, and I know it.

This quote is so true. And it's why so many people think the teacher's unions are such b.s. artists. Policies like that are in direct conflict with children's best interests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I find the most interesting is the posters here being able to imagine, and not want to face, the challenges of being one the only whites in a class, but the same thoughtfulness isn't extended to AA parents that face the same challenge. I've seen several threads where people basically told them to get over it or diversity is more than just a skin color. Very interesting indeed.

I can't say I've seen what you're talking about. Do you have an example?

[Anonymous]

In that case-she should also be battling the State Board of Education and NCLB which together have set insane, nationally inconsistent certification requirements (DC's among some of the most weird in the land). It is BS that teachers who don't make certification "could not pass an easy test." That may hold true in some cases in which case YES-dimiss them--but there is NO transparent review panel that she has set up in conjunction with OSSE to hold on to the talent she seeks, make exceptions or find equivalences for teachers proven effective (what she is always going on about....) who don't match one of the myriad other weird requirements OSSE has set. Do you know that UDC coursework in their teaching program (you know the one, constantly under threat of being de-accredited???) is regarded by OSSE certifiers as of far higher value than say, a deep background in subject area from MIT with accompanying 'unsanctioned' teaching coursework / because it is administered through MIT--oh no, not a teaching college!!? I know many many many good teachers being 'flushed out' of the system or barred from entering due to weird catch-22's like that - like taking their courses over time rather than in some DC 'sanctioned' (translate cash cow) mini speed-track program-- being flushed out or barred from entering due to reasons that have nothing to do with a) experience b) effectiveness c) qualifications - Praxis, grad credits-they have em' d) ability and enthusiasm. Guess who is left to teach the kids?

The barriers to teaching in DC are insane. Perhaps veer left from charging at the Union to raise a hue and a cry over that. These requirements are set by OSSE and Rhee has not said "peep" to them or set up ANY mechanism to filter 'good' teachers through them. Their rigid application, ironic outcomes (teachers with MA's being replaces by TFA's), follow the letter but not spirit of the law, and have NOTHING to do with Unions.

GUESS who is left to teach YOUR kids?????????

[Anonymous]

"GUESS who is left to teach YOUR kids?????????"

Gosh, I guess I'm one of those left to teach your kids.

The requirements for becoming a licensed teacher in DC are annoying, and they do take time and cost money, but they are not insane, and did not keep me from becoming a licensed teacher. My previous course work from Berkeley and Harvard were considered when I applied for my license. I did not take any courses from UDC, although I did take one from GW, one from NOVA, and one online from University of Wisconsin. The rest I did at Trinity.

BTW, most of what is in the "new" Teaching and Learning Framework unveiled recently by Michelle Rhee was part of my teacher training at Trinity.

Also, the barriers for teachers to acquire additional certifications have been relaxed significantly over the past year. I know of several teachers who added second endorsements simply by taking/passing the PRAXIS in a different area.

[Anonymous]

I don't know the answer to this question, but I hope someone on this forum has the answer. I hear about how the teacher's union and NEA are the downfalls of DCPS. Am I to understand that Montgomery County, Fairfax County and Howard County are all without teacher unions. I mention these three counties because they all have some of the best public schools in the country. If they are represented by unions and the NEA, well then DCPS failures cannot continue to place all the blame on the union, right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"GUESS who is left to teach YOUR kids?????????"

Gosh, I guess I'm one of those left to teach your kids.

The requirements for becoming a licensed teacher in DC are annoying, and they do take time and cost money, but they are not insane, and did not keep me from becoming a licensed teacher. My previous course work from Berkeley and Harvard were considered when I applied for my license. I did not take any courses from UDC, although I did take one from GW, one from NOVA, and one online from University of Wisconsin. The rest I did at Trinity.

BTW, most of what is in the "new" Teaching and Learning Framework unveiled recently by Michelle Rhee was part of my teacher training at Trinity.

Also, the barriers for teachers to acquire additional certifications have been relaxed significantly over the past year. I know of several teachers who added second endorsements simply by taking/passing the PRAXIS in a different area.

When did you apply perchance? Of course previous coursework is considered, as in you must have a BA, but unlike Virginia (with its TERRIBLE ed system, not), OSSE refuses to transcript-read education classes taken over a career at different places, so unless you enter in through a teaching program at one of their approved certification mills (including Trinity, no offense, who I am guessing 'read' your transcript and then took DC's or your own money and then 'topped' you off) you would not be hired today. And if I am wrong, please explain to me why I have a BA, an MA, three hundred practicum hours, 3 Praxis exams with honors and a VA teaching license and can't get 'certified' through OSSE in the District? How did Michelle Rhee help to facilitate that process again? By the way, have a glorious non-DCPS teaching job. Sorry that I am not allowed to teach the public school kids in the state of my birth however....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know the answer to this question, but I hope someone on this forum has the answer. I hear about how the teacher's union and NEA are the downfalls of DCPS. Am I to understand that Montgomery County, Fairfax County and Howard County are all without teacher unions. I mention these three counties because they all have some of the best public schools in the country. If they are represented by unions and the NEA, well then DCPS failures cannot continue to place all the blame on the union, right.

Nobody thinks the union has created the problems within DCPS. It's that the union(s) are more about job protection than student interest. In high performing districts like FFX and others the norms are high enough that the deleterious effects of the union don't compromise the learning atmosphere as much as they could. In generally low-performing districts (while allowing that the creme de la creme of DCPS is in fact wonderful it is NOT the norm), the unions are a jobs program. Not to say that there aren't good teachers - because there are. But when you can't hire an experienced good teacher in one area because there are 10 mediocre teachers with seniority who have to be considered first? Explain to me how this is anything other than a boondoogle at the expense of students. It sure as hell isn't in THEIR benefit!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know the answer to this question, but I hope someone on this forum has the answer. I hear about how the teacher's union and NEA are the downfalls of DCPS. Am I to understand that Montgomery County, Fairfax County and Howard County are all without teacher unions. I mention these three counties because they all have some of the best public schools in the country. If they are represented by unions and the NEA, well then DCPS failures cannot continue to place all the blame on the union, right.

Nobody thinks the union has created the problems within DCPS. It's that the union(s) are more about job protection than student interest. In high performing districts like FFX and others the norms are high enough that the deleterious effects of the union don't compromise the learning atmosphere as much as they could. In generally low-performing districts (while allowing that the creme de la creme of DCPS is in fact wonderful it is NOT the norm), the unions are a jobs program. Not to say that there aren't good teachers - because there are. But when you can't hire an experienced good teacher in one area because there are 10 mediocre teachers with seniority who have to be considered first? Explain to me how this is anything other than a boondoogle at the expense of students. It sure as hell isn't in THEIR benefit!

Can you cite specific examples where a principal was forced to hire someone second-rate due to seniority?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"GUESS who is left to teach YOUR kids?????????"

Gosh, I guess I'm one of those left to teach your kids.

The requirements for becoming a licensed teacher in DC are annoying, and they do take time and cost money, but they are not insane, and did not keep me from becoming a licensed teacher. My previous course work from Berkeley and Harvard were considered when I applied for my license. I did not take any courses from UDC, although I did take one from GW, one from NOVA, and one online from University of Wisconsin. The rest I did at Trinity.

BTW, most of what is in the "new" Teaching and Learning Framework unveiled recently by Michelle Rhee was part of my teacher training at Trinity.

Also, the barriers for teachers to acquire additional certifications have been relaxed significantly over the past year. I know of several teachers who added second endorsements simply by taking/passing the PRAXIS in a different area.

When did you apply perchance? Of course previous coursework is considered, as in you must have a BA, but unlike Virginia (with its TERRIBLE ed system, not), OSSE refuses to transcript-read education classes taken over a career at different places, so unless you enter in through a teaching program at one of their approved certification mills (including Trinity, no offense, who I am guessing 'read' your transcript and then took DC's or your own money and then 'topped' you off) you would not be hired today. And if I am wrong, please explain to me why I have a BA, an MA, three hundred practicum hours, 3 Praxis exams with honors and a VA teaching license and can't get 'certified' through OSSE in the District? How did Michelle Rhee help to facilitate that process again? By the way, have a glorious non-DCPS teaching job. Sorry that I am not allowed to teach the public school kids in the state of my birth however....

Point taken. Your difficulties getting licensed in DC might be your silver lining. Take a look at the IMPACT evaluation instrument and the Teaching and Learning Framework; you might want to teach in Virginia after all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know the answer to this question, but I hope someone on this forum has the answer. I hear about how the teacher's union and NEA are the downfalls of DCPS. Am I to understand that Montgomery County, Fairfax County and Howard County are all without teacher unions. I mention these three counties because they all have some of the best public schools in the country. If they are represented by unions and the NEA, well then DCPS failures cannot continue to place all the blame on the union, right.

Nobody thinks the union has created the problems within DCPS. It's that the union(s) are more about job protection than student interest. In high performing districts like FFX and others the norms are high enough that the deleterious effects of the union don't compromise the learning atmosphere as much as they could. In generally low-performing districts (while allowing that the creme de la creme of DCPS is in fact wonderful it is NOT the norm), the unions are a jobs program. Not to say that there aren't good teachers - because there are. But when you can't hire an experienced good teacher in one area because there are 10 mediocre teachers with seniority who have to be considered first? Explain to me how this is anything other than a boondoogle at the expense of students. It sure as hell isn't in THEIR benefit!

Can you cite specific examples where a principal was forced to hire someone second-rate due to seniority?

From the article "She spells out what it would look like if she wins her battle with the union: "The biggest change that will be tangible and palpable won't be a mass exodus of thousands of teachers, but every school -- can I say this? -- will be able to have the people they want. It is so deflating to people in the system and to parents when a school is told you can't hire that great teacher from Montgomery County because we have 10 people in that classification who are ahead of that person. Don't ask me to go out and sell that policy to parents, because it's idiotic -- and they know it, and I know it."

Actually citing specific cases by name would be a real violation of privacy and probably open her to lawsuits. It's easy to see how she's faced this situation too many times to count, however.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know the answer to this question, but I hope someone on this forum has the answer. I hear about how the teacher's union and NEA are the downfalls of DCPS. Am I to understand that Montgomery County, Fairfax County and Howard County are all without teacher unions. I mention these three counties because they all have some of the best public schools in the country. If they are represented by unions and the NEA, well then DCPS failures cannot continue to place all the blame on the union, right.

Nobody thinks the union has created the problems within DCPS. It's that the union(s) are more about job protection than student interest. In high performing districts like FFX and others the norms are high enough that the deleterious effects of the union don't compromise the learning atmosphere as much as they could. In generally low-performing districts (while allowing that the creme de la creme of DCPS is in fact wonderful it is NOT the norm), the unions are a jobs program. Not to say that there aren't good teachers - because there are. But when you can't hire an experienced good teacher in one area because there are 10 mediocre teachers with seniority who have to be considered first? Explain to me how this is anything other than a boondoogle at the expense of students. It sure as hell isn't in THEIR benefit!

Can you cite specific examples where a principal was forced to hire someone second-rate due to seniority?

From the article "She spells out what it would look like if she wins her battle with the union: "The biggest change that will be tangible and palpable won't be a mass exodus of thousands of teachers, but every school -- can I say this? -- will be able to have the people they want. It is so deflating to people in the system and to parents when a school is told you can't hire that great teacher from Montgomery County because we have 10 people in that classification who are ahead of that person. Don't ask me to go out and sell that policy to parents, because it's idiotic -- and they know it, and I know it."

Actually citing specific cases by name would be a real violation of privacy and probably open her to lawsuits. It's easy to see how she's faced this situation too many times to count, however.

I read the article. And you apparently don't know of any specific cases. I, however, have worked in DC public schools where effective principals have managed to "have the people that they want" working within the current union contract.

[Anonymous]

Logic doesn't require us to name names. The policy is OBVIOUSLY all about jobs. If it were about the best interests of students? It wouldn't exist in the first place.

You claim that effective principals have managed to "have the people that they want" but why should this rely on certain effective principals in certain schools? Eliminating a preferential hiring contract would benefit the students immediately because it would free up principals to hire whomever they want and not play bureaucratic games with the union. Of course, a certain willingness to play bureaucratic games to the benefit of the union may be precisely your definition of an effective principal. Mine, however, are about the best interests of the students (AKA Union Boss Al Shanker's "grist for the mill").

[Anonymous]

15:07 here Are the above performing schools in the outer counties subject to seniority rules in their union k.