where would you want your kid to go if given the following choice: Brown or Trintiy/Columbia Dual BA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I had a kid capable of getting into 2 Ivy's, I'd feel confident in letting them make this decision, and would try hard not to add any bias from me into the conversation.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I had a kid capable of getting into 2 Ivy's, I'd feel confident in letting them make this decision, and would try hard not to add any bias from me into the conversation.

+1000

Agreed. If I had to choose for myself however, I'd choose Brown, hands down!

[Anonymous]

I went to an Ivy League college. I did not have "the community" you all are saying is so critical. It isn't my personality, and it isn't what I wanted. My life is not smaller for it.

OP, if your daughter is seriously intellectual, and seriously liberal artsy so those majors are not restrictions, and if your daughter has an interest in seeing the world, I'd say go for it.

The two,choices you give couldn't be more different intellectually. Brown is the Ivy with the fewest requirements,a nd the most "freedom" left to the kids to construct the degree. Columbia with the core is the opposite. For my money, the Columbia approach is more intellectual and works kids harder and deeper.

I would note that your daughter, when she is back at aColumbia, will have a ton of requirements to complete that many take as Freshmen and sophomores. Lit him and cc will be on her schedule, and she will be older than her classmates.

[Anonymous]

These are both awesome college options. As a Columbia alum, the downside is that the Columbia side is in the School of General Studies, not Columbia College. GS is Columbia's undergraduate division for returning and nontraditional students. Some of Columbia's best undergraduates are GS students, so there is no academic or reputation disadvantage. But, GS does not guarantee housing, which can be an issue in NYC. It also means financial aid is much more limited. So if you can pay sticker price+, great. But, if cost is an issue and financial aid is a possibility, Brown is likely to be far cheaper.

[Anonymous]

Brown is meh unless your kid is pretty artsy. I would go for Columbia + Trinity unless your kid is slow to adapt and likes to really settle in somewhere.
Is the kid an extrovert? That would make the 2+2 program more enticing as he could really meet a ton of interesting people.
Any other choices that he has?

[Anonymous]

OP I would say this - I left NY and went to a UK university where there was an opportunity to spend a year at a sister school in Canada. My folks really wanted me to do this, but I had already moved a lot and thought staying put would serve me better in the long run. I was totally wrong and really regret not taking that year back this side of the Atlantic.

Spending time in those two places would an amazing opportunity on so many levels.

[Anonymous]

OP, this must be a very tough decision.

You've received some good comments on this thread. Pls consider one academic issue --

Brown doesn't really have a long list of core requirements and major requirements. Only a few distribution requirements are in play, and one can elect no major and only a concentration.

Columbia is one of the two (the other is UChicago) US universities with the most intensive distribution requirements. And Columbia is a 5-course semester, not a 4 course semester (like Brown and Harvard).

Pls have your DC make sure that the Trinity/Columbia 2+2 program takes into account the fact that, at Columbia, in every one of their undergrad colleges (Columbia College, Barnard, Engineering, and GS) the core courses and major together typically occupy 3 years of the 4. Will your DC be 100% assured that the Trinity/Columbia program doesn't involve the possible risk of a 5th year?

[Anonymous]

Seems like a semester or a year abroad is more feasible. A lot of kids opt for only a semester or skip it entirely because it's hard to balance the courses/activities they want to accomplish (not that I agree with skipping it but I know many do).

. I don't see how you could really explore what Columbia has to offer, either for class or extracurricular activities if you show up as a junior with a long list of classes you must take to graduate.

I really can't see that anyone needs a second bachelor's degree, so what is the benefit really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These are both awesome college options. As a Columbia alum, the downside is that the Columbia side is in the School of General Studies, not Columbia College. GS is Columbia's undergraduate division for returning and nontraditional students. Some of Columbia's best undergraduates are GS students, so there is no academic or reputation disadvantage. But, GS does not guarantee housing, which can be an issue in NYC. It also means financial aid is much more limited. So if you can pay sticker price+, great. But, if cost is an issue and financial aid is a possibility, Brown is likely to be far cheaper.

OP --

I'm a PP (21:23) and a Columbia GS alum from decades ago, and this PP is correct. GS isn't an alternative program - it's a regular-program, regularly-titled BA (not a funny-name Bachelors in Liberal Something), and GS imposes essentially the same distribution and major requirements as Columbia College. GS is not terribly large, it is selective-admission, it's well-regarded generally within the University, it fully shares in the overall Faculty of Arts & Sciences, and GS also offers the same placement support as Columbia College. I won one of Columbia's few undergrad named-prizes while a GS student, and I was active on campus. I was one of the lucky ones who was housed the whole time at GS but for the first few weeks (and I had a place to stay in NYC), and I perceive zero down-side to being a GS student. There is nearly no academic separation between GS and Columbia College (there once was). GS itself isn't an issue.

$$-aid can be an issue, although it's certainly available and is much more generous than what you might see at a non-Ivy. There is an implied merit-qualifier to aid at GS, such that essentially your academic performance is factored in. The GS student with a 3.6 who is active on campus is embraced, and will get more aid than the less-active 2.95 student with identical finances. That's simply how it works.

BUT - a big one - housing can be a very real issue, and can even be a crisis if DC is stuck without it. Columbia treats GS students as grad students for the purposes of housing. Dorm space is simply not assured at all. And university apartments involve a waiting list, apartment sharing, and rents that aren't really that far below market. NYC is expensive, and Columbia is not an easy commute from the cheapest NYC areas. A really long commute means lower personal engagement and can be an unappealing challenge.

GS is wonderful and served me very well. I am a very pleased and loyal alum. But in NYC, real estate means a great deal. Don't encourage DC to pursue Columbia if there's an open question about housing. Do you have close friends or family in NYC where DC could, if needed, crash for multiple weeks while looking? Would DC do well in an apt with a totally unrelated person? Is DC going to be very very good at self-managing time and logistics, if living multiple subway stops away from campus? Consider all these questions, and have DC contact GS admissions and make inquiries. It's such a common issue that the inquiry will not be taken badly.

[Anonymous]

People here saying Brown is meh. LOL

Only on DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Agree. Brown is amazing. Columbia - not meh but not so amazing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, this must be a very tough decision.

You've received some good comments on this thread. Pls consider one academic issue --

Brown doesn't really have a long list of core requirements and major requirements. Only a few distribution requirements are in play, and one can elect no major and only a concentration.

Columbia is one of the two (the other is UChicago) US universities with the most intensive distribution requirements. And Columbia is a 5-course semester, not a 4 course semester (like Brown and Harvard).

Pls have your DC make sure that the Trinity/Columbia 2+2 program takes into account the fact that, at Columbia, in every one of their undergrad colleges (Columbia College, Barnard, Engineering, and GS) the core courses and major together typically occupy 3 years of the 4. Will your DC be 100% assured that the Trinity/Columbia program doesn't involve the possible risk of a 5th year?

Just to clarify, Brown has majors, but they're called concentrations. It's no different from majors at other colleges and the difference is simply terminology. As with any major, a Brown student needs to complete the distribution requirements the concentration demands. Students do have the option to create their own concentration subject to a proposal and approval by the university and relevant departments but most students do a typical concentration.

This double BA with Trinity seems like a brand new program and there is inherent risk in that because we don't know all the kinks yet and how they would play out. It seems to me that to be able to achieve a double BA with Trinity while meeting Columbia's core requirements you will actually end up doing the reverse of what the typical Columbia undergraduate does, spending your first two years at Trinity studying what is effectively your major, and then when you matriculate at Columbia, you spend the last two years completing all the distribution requirements, which leaves you minimal time to take additional courses in your major. If you're a history specialist, you'd have minimal time to study history in your last two years of college, which would be a negative to me.

[Anonymous]

Columbia has so many dual programs with LACs and others here in the US - seems to me it's diluted the brand. However if your DK is really into study abroad and the majors available, I'm sure Trinity/Columbia would be fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, this must be a very tough decision.

You've received some good comments on this thread. Pls consider one academic issue --

Brown doesn't really have a long list of core requirements and major requirements. Only a few distribution requirements are in play, and one can elect no major and only a concentration.

Columbia is one of the two (the other is UChicago) US universities with the most intensive distribution requirements. And Columbia is a 5-course semester, not a 4 course semester (like Brown and Harvard).

Pls have your DC make sure that the Trinity/Columbia 2+2 program takes into account the fact that, at Columbia, in every one of their undergrad colleges (Columbia College, Barnard, Engineering, and GS) the core courses and major together typically occupy 3 years of the 4. Will your DC be 100% assured that the Trinity/Columbia program doesn't involve the possible risk of a 5th year?

Just to clarify, Brown has majors, but they're called concentrations. It's no different from majors at other colleges and the difference is simply terminology. As with any major, a Brown student needs to complete the distribution requirements the concentration demands. Students do have the option to create their own concentration subject to a proposal and approval by the university and relevant departments but most students do a typical concentration.

This double BA with Trinity seems like a brand new program and there is inherent risk in that because we don't know all the kinks yet and how they would play out. It seems to me that to be able to achieve a double BA with Trinity while meeting Columbia's core requirements you will actually end up doing the reverse of what the typical Columbia undergraduate does, spending your first two years at Trinity studying what is effectively your major, and then when you matriculate at Columbia, you spend the last two years completing all the distribution requirements, which leaves you minimal time to take additional courses in your major. If you're a history specialist, you'd have minimal time to study history in your last two years of college, which would be a negative to me.

But PP, Brown has no general distribution requirements, and the core requirements in a concentration can be partially avoided if an undergraduate declares "interdisciplinary with a XXX minor concentration." Brown is proud of these features -- see https://www.brown.edu/academics/college/concentrations/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These are both awesome college options. As a Columbia alum, the downside is that the Columbia side is in the School of General Studies, not Columbia College. GS is Columbia's undergraduate division for returning and nontraditional students. Some of Columbia's best undergraduates are GS students, so there is no academic or reputation disadvantage. But, GS does not guarantee housing, which can be an issue in NYC. It also means financial aid is much more limited. So if you can pay sticker price+, great. But, if cost is an issue and financial aid is a possibility, Brown is likely to be far cheaper.

OP --

I'm a PP (21:23) and a Columbia GS alum from decades ago, and this PP is correct. GS isn't an alternative program - it's a regular-program, regularly-titled BA (not a funny-name Bachelors in Liberal Something), and GS imposes essentially the same distribution and major requirements as Columbia College. GS is not terribly large, it is selective-admission, it's well-regarded generally within the University, it fully shares in the overall Faculty of Arts & Sciences, and GS also offers the same placement support as Columbia College. I won one of Columbia's few undergrad named-prizes while a GS student, and I was active on campus. I was one of the lucky ones who was housed the whole time at GS but for the first few weeks (and I had a place to stay in NYC), and I perceive zero down-side to being a GS student. There is nearly no academic separation between GS and Columbia College (there once was). GS itself isn't an issue.

$$-aid can be an issue, although it's certainly available and is much more generous than what you might see at a non-Ivy. There is an implied merit-qualifier to aid at GS, such that essentially your academic performance is factored in. The GS student with a 3.6 who is active on campus is embraced, and will get more aid than the less-active 2.95 student with identical finances. That's simply how it works.

BUT - a big one - housing can be a very real issue, and can even be a crisis if DC is stuck without it. Columbia treats GS students as grad students for the purposes of housing. Dorm space is simply not assured at all. And university apartments involve a waiting list, apartment sharing, and rents that aren't really that far below market. NYC is expensive, and Columbia is not an easy commute from the cheapest NYC areas. A really long commute means lower personal engagement and can be an unappealing challenge.

GS is wonderful and served me very well. I am a very pleased and loyal alum. But in NYC, real estate means a great deal. Don't encourage DC to pursue Columbia if there's an open question about housing. Do you have close friends or family in NYC where DC could, if needed, crash for multiple weeks while looking? Would DC do well in an apt with a totally unrelated person? Is DC going to be very very good at self-managing time and logistics, if living multiple subway stops away from campus? Consider all these questions, and have DC contact GS admissions and make inquiries. It's such a common issue that the inquiry will not be taken badly.

OP here-great information, thank you very much. FYI the Dual BA students have guaranteed housing for all 4 years. It's a rather small program, with only 40 kids from both sides of the Atlantic. They have dedicated advisors that you work with from both schools for all 4 years. (the first 2 years are in Dublin and she would Skype with her Columbia advisor on a regular basis from Trinity) The last 2 Rhodes scholars from Columbia are from the Sciences Po/Columbia Dual BA, which is run by the same Deans at Columbia GS. CC has not had a Rhodes Scholar since 2010 and the young Dual BA program has had 2, so that is encouraging, they are doing good work. My dd wants to study Mid East languages and culture, so that is a great fit. I almost think their are almost too many options with not enough focus at Brown and my dd does well with a mapped out journey, not that she wouldn't love to take a myriad of interesting classes for 4 years! I think she will ultimately choose the Columbia program.