Worried About Buying EOTR

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think EOTR will ever gentrify like Shaw or NOMA. If it does, it’s 10-15 years away. Prices have gone up, yes, but they will level off. In 3-5 years there will be a generation of yuppies who moved to row houses and discover that it’s not enough room with kids. You’ll get another opportunity.

I guess it depends on your definition of "like Shaw or NOMA," but you are either very right or very wrong.


If you meant it will never have the concentration of bars and restaurants and the like, you are absolutely right. There are very few places if any EOTR that have the density to support it even if the demographics here looked like Upper NW. If you want evidence of this, just look anywhere in upper NW: huge incomes and house values but all the retail is concentrated into corridors that are several blocks away from each other. That is what I imagine most places EOTR are going to look like in 10-15 years, though obviously not as upscale.

Now if you meant it will never have the income/racial makeup that Shaw or NOMA currently have, that I very much disagree with. Shaw currently has a median HHI of $84,000 and is 50% black, 30% white, 11% hispanic, and 7% asian. I would be pretty shocked if many areas EOTR weren't comparable to that in a decade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think EOTR will ever gentrify like Shaw or NOMA. If it does, it’s 10-15 years away. Prices have gone up, yes, but they will level off. In 3-5 years there will be a generation of yuppies who moved to row houses and discover that it’s not enough room with kids. You’ll get another opportunity.

I guess it depends on your definition of "like Shaw or NOMA," but you are either very right or very wrong.


If you meant it will never have the concentration of bars and restaurants and the like, you are absolutely right. There are very few places if any EOTR that have the density to support it even if the demographics here looked like Upper NW. If you want evidence of this, just look anywhere in upper NW: huge incomes and house values but all the retail is concentrated into corridors that are several blocks away from each other. That is what I imagine most places EOTR are going to look like in 10-15 years, though obviously not as upscale.

Now if you meant it will never have the income/racial makeup that Shaw or NOMA currently have, that I very much disagree with. Shaw currently has a median HHI of $84,000 and is 50% black, 30% white, 11% hispanic, and 7% asian. I would be pretty shocked if many areas EOTR weren't comparable to that in a decade.

buuuut big buildings are going up EOTR:

https://dc.urbanturf.com/pipeline/590/20012027_Martin_Luther_King_Jr_Avenue
https://dc.urbanturf.com/pipeline/398/2255_Martin_Luther_King_Jr_Avenue_SE
https://dc.urbanturf.com/pipeline/478/Reunion_Square

The buildings will increase density and residents will certainly support bars and restaurants..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think EOTR will ever gentrify like Shaw or NOMA. If it does, it’s 10-15 years away. Prices have gone up, yes, but they will level off. In 3-5 years there will be a generation of yuppies who moved to row houses and discover that it’s not enough room with kids. You’ll get another opportunity.

I guess it depends on your definition of "like Shaw or NOMA," but you are either very right or very wrong.


If you meant it will never have the concentration of bars and restaurants and the like, you are absolutely right. There are very few places if any EOTR that have the density to support it even if the demographics here looked like Upper NW. If you want evidence of this, just look anywhere in upper NW: huge incomes and house values but all the retail is concentrated into corridors that are several blocks away from each other. That is what I imagine most places EOTR are going to look like in 10-15 years, though obviously not as upscale.

Now if you meant it will never have the income/racial makeup that Shaw or NOMA currently have, that I very much disagree with. Shaw currently has a median HHI of $84,000 and is 50% black, 30% white, 11% hispanic, and 7% asian. I would be pretty shocked if many areas EOTR weren't comparable to that in a decade.

buuuut big buildings are going up EOTR:

https://dc.urbanturf.com/pipeline/590/20012027_Martin_Luther_King_Jr_Avenue
https://dc.urbanturf.com/pipeline/398/2255_Martin_Luther_King_Jr_Avenue_SE
https://dc.urbanturf.com/pipeline/478/Reunion_Square

The buildings will increase density and residents will certainly support bars and restaurants..

There are big buildings all over Wisconsin and Connecticut Avenues, it doesn't change the fact that outside those corridors it's mostly single family and duplex homes, just like EOTR.

I'm not saying no bars and restaurants will ever come here, I'm just saying the development will never mimic developed areas in the urban core like Shaw and NOMA, and will instead mimic developed areas in the less dense regions like Tenleytown and Cleveland Park.

I'm also not saying there won't be any more dense areas at all, the intersection of Benning Rd and Minnesota Ave will certainly be a retail hub, as will the Historic Anacostia/St. Elizabeth's area, Congress Heights, Skyland, and the area around the Deanwood metro as well. But outside those I think retail will be concentrated on Benning Rd, Minnesota Ave, Nannie Helen Burroughs, E. Capitol, Pennsylvania Ave, Good Hope Rd, MLK, Alabama Ave, and maybe a few others.

All in all I believe in 10 years time EOTR residents will have a huge increase in retail options, but it will never get to the point where every block has stores on it like Shaw or NOMA, the zoning would never allow it and the density would never support it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think EOTR will ever gentrify like Shaw or NOMA. If it does, it’s 10-15 years away. Prices have gone up, yes, but they will level off. In 3-5 years there will be a generation of yuppies who moved to row houses and discover that it’s not enough room with kids. You’ll get another opportunity.

You were clearly not hear in the early 90s. I lived in Shaw and my mother cried when she pulled up to the house. My friend bought in Columbia Heights on 13th street. 75K for one of the large row houses b/c no one was EVER going to live there. Your advice is wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think EOTR will ever gentrify like Shaw or NOMA. If it does, it’s 10-15 years away. Prices have gone up, yes, but they will level off. In 3-5 years there will be a generation of yuppies who moved to row houses and discover that it’s not enough room with kids. You’ll get another opportunity.

I guess it depends on your definition of "like Shaw or NOMA," but you are either very right or very wrong.


If you meant it will never have the concentration of bars and restaurants and the like, you are absolutely right. There are very few places if any EOTR that have the density to support it even if the demographics here looked like Upper NW. If you want evidence of this, just look anywhere in upper NW: huge incomes and house values but all the retail is concentrated into corridors that are several blocks away from each other. That is what I imagine most places EOTR are going to look like in 10-15 years, though obviously not as upscale.

Now if you meant it will never have the income/racial makeup that Shaw or NOMA currently have, that I very much disagree with. Shaw currently has a median HHI of $84,000 and is 50% black, 30% white, 11% hispanic, and 7% asian. I would be pretty shocked if many areas EOTR weren't comparable to that in a decade.

buuuut big buildings are going up EOTR:

https://dc.urbanturf.com/pipeline/590/20012027_Martin_Luther_King_Jr_Avenue
https://dc.urbanturf.com/pipeline/398/2255_Martin_Luther_King_Jr_Avenue_SE
https://dc.urbanturf.com/pipeline/478/Reunion_Square

The buildings will increase density and residents will certainly support bars and restaurants..

There are big buildings all over Wisconsin and Connecticut Avenues, it doesn't change the fact that outside those corridors it's mostly single family and duplex homes, just like EOTR.

I'm not saying no bars and restaurants will ever come here, I'm just saying the development will never mimic developed areas in the urban core like Shaw and NOMA, and will instead mimic developed areas in the less dense regions like Tenleytown and Cleveland Park.

I'm also not saying there won't be any more dense areas at all, the intersection of Benning Rd and Minnesota Ave will certainly be a retail hub, as will the Historic Anacostia/St. Elizabeth's area, Congress Heights, Skyland, and the area around the Deanwood metro as well. But outside those I think retail will be concentrated on Benning Rd, Minnesota Ave, Nannie Helen Burroughs, E. Capitol, Pennsylvania Ave, Good Hope Rd, MLK, Alabama Ave, and maybe a few others.

All in all I believe in 10 years time EOTR residents will have a huge increase in retail options, but it will never get to the point where every block has stores on it like Shaw or NOMA, the zoning would never allow it and the density would never support it.

I agree with the PP. I don't expect EOTR to become the next Shaw or NOMA. There will be some growth within the areas listed previously. It will take time but there a few beginnings...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/first-stand-alone-starbucks-east-of-anacostia-brings-both-excitement-and-worries-about-displacement/2017/10/22/adf0e6dc-b4e6-11e7-be94-fabb0f1e9ffb_story.html?utm_term=.7053ffb819d5

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think EOTR will ever gentrify like Shaw or NOMA. If it does, it’s 10-15 years away. Prices have gone up, yes, but they will level off. In 3-5 years there will be a generation of yuppies who moved to row houses and discover that it’s not enough room with kids. You’ll get another opportunity.

You were clearly not hear in the early 90s. I lived in Shaw and my mother cried when she pulled up to the house. My friend bought in Columbia Heights on 13th street. 75K for one of the large row houses b/c no one was EVER going to live there. Your advice is wrong.

and that gentrification has spilled to Petworth and 11th St.

I wouldn't be surprised if EOTR gentrifies like Columbia Heights/Petworth/11th St.

[Anonymous]

What does EOTR stand for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What does EOTR stand for?

East of the (Anacostia) River

[Anonymous]

Well as a Hillcrest resident, I hope we don't get that high density scene with multiple bars, etc. I like that it's fairly quiet here. I'd be ecstatic with just a few coffee shops, nice multi-cultural eateries, and a grocery store. I can't really speak for the rest of EOTR nor do I plan to live anywhere in EOTR except for Hillcrest and maybe Penn Branch. I welcome gentrification here, since that's what it seems to take for black/brown neighborhoods to get comparable city services, amenities and such.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well as a Hillcrest resident, I hope we don't get that high density scene with multiple bars, etc. I like that it's fairly quiet here. I'd be ecstatic with just a few coffee shops, nice multi-cultural eateries, and a grocery store. I can't really speak for the rest of EOTR nor do I plan to live anywhere in EOTR except for Hillcrest and maybe Penn Branch. I welcome gentrification here, since that's what it seems to take for black/brown neighborhoods to get comparable city services, amenities and such.

Agreed. I bought over here specifically because of the semi-suburban feel while still being on the Metro and close to downtown. I welcome development so that I can finally get some decent food delivered and could walk to a bar or two, but I don't think we have too much to worry about anywhere EOTR turning into "the next Adams Morgan" to use a tired cliche.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think EOTR will ever gentrify like Shaw or NOMA. If it does, it’s 10-15 years away. Prices have gone up, yes, but they will level off. In 3-5 years there will be a generation of yuppies who moved to row houses and discover that it’s not enough room with kids. You’ll get another opportunity.

You were clearly not hear in the early 90s. I lived in Shaw and my mother cried when she pulled up to the house. My friend bought in Columbia Heights on 13th street. 75K for one of the large row houses b/c no one was EVER going to live there. Your advice is wrong.

and that gentrification has spilled to Petworth and 11th St.

I wouldn't be surprised if EOTR gentrifies like Columbia Heights/Petworth/11th St.

Do we really want it to? Those areas are still kind of crappy only with a layer of yuppies, yuckies and hipsters running around prending like they don’t see the poor people

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think EOTR will ever gentrify like Shaw or NOMA. If it does, it’s 10-15 years away. Prices have gone up, yes, but they will level off. In 3-5 years there will be a generation of yuppies who moved to row houses and discover that it’s not enough room with kids. You’ll get another opportunity.

Well, I think thats a big draw for moving EOTR. For me at least, I want the space but won't leave DC, and that's where I can get it at an affordable price.

[Anonymous]

I bought EOTR (Fairlawn/Randle Heights) 3.5 years ago and think it was the best move I've ever made. I have a pretty large detached SFH with a decent yard and a driveway. I love both the neighborhood and my neighbors. And I've been gobsmacked by the appreciation in the neigbhorhood. I expected it would take more like 7 years for my house to increase in value as much as it has.

As for whether to wait and get something post-renovation...I opted for the "before" house because that was what I could afford, and I've been slowly updating as I can. On the downside, it means that I'm still living with a sub-ideal kitchen and plenty of undone projects. On the upside, my mortgage is tiny and all of the renovations are exactly to my taste. So I guess it depends on your stomach for living with a work in progress.

[Anonymous]

Are people talking TH's or detached SFHs? I don't know the markets EOTR well at all, but I do know there aren't that many detached SFHs as close to downtown DC as the EOTR neighborhoods, and almost all are either already expensive or getting there quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are people talking TH's or detached SFHs? I don't know the markets EOTR well at all, but I do know there aren't that many detached SFHs as close to downtown DC as the EOTR neighborhoods, and almost all are either already expensive or getting there quickly.

This.

I'm the 8:56 PP. I bought EOTR because I wanted a detached SFH and also wanted to be pretty close-in. I don't know where else I could have gone to get that combo of close-in/detached house for <$300k.