How to choose HS courses for 9th grader

[Anonymous]

You should know that AP classes are not what they once were. That is why kids are suddenly taking APs with out taking the HS level class first. I took me a while to figure this out. They may provide more challenge then the HS level course but are not college level. At our (non-W) HS the majority of kids take AP GOV, AP Lang etc. It is not the top select kids only with approval as it was in my day...

[Anonymous]

My ds is in 9th grade and I recall a lot of confusion last year trying to figure out the schedule. The biggest question mark for most at my school is whether to take AP US history or Honor US history. Let me tell you my ds's experience, which may help you navigate this more easily than we did.

APUSH is a LOT of work and it starts fast. This year, classes began on a Tuesday and his first APUSH chapter test was the next Monday and another one was scheduled for that Friday (two tests the second week of school), and he got a C on both. It's not that he didn't study, but that the test was hard, and a very difficult format than he was used to from Middle School. (When he brought home the test, he reached out to everyone he could find to read questions from the test (to demonstrate how difficult they were).) There are two sections to most chapter tests. The first is easy-- basic multiple choice questions that you can get correctly by reading/basic studying. The second are much more interpretation-based. For instance, which was the BIGGEST cause of X (where all four m/c answers were causes and so you need to understand the subtleties of which was more important). Or reading a passage from an author (for instance, Locke, Hamilton, etc) and being able to interpret subtleties of the arguments they are making. So in addition to the workload (mostly reading/studying, not so much writing, but I know a lot of kids staying up til 12 or 1 just to get the reading done), he found it very frustrating because he felt like no matter how much he studied he didn't know answers to many test questions.

Having said that, there were places in the class that the teacher gave easy assignments that brought grades up, and he ended up with an A in the class (barely) but friends ended up with Bs and Cs.

Second quarter has been much easier, probably because he got the hang of how to study/prepare for the tests. But the word on the street is that third quarter is the most difficult because the teacher removes some of the crutches kids have gotten up til now (for instance, receiving some of the reading passages a day ahead).

At our school, many students asked to move out of APUSH into Honors USH in the first few weeks. As far as I know, they were all accommodated but some were panicking they may not be able to drop it because counselors were having a very difficult time finding courses to put them into. I spoke with parents of kids who moved, who complained that the Honors course was way too easy-- more like a Middle School class (and at our MS, the kids didn't have much workload). So it's a shame that there isn't a course in between these two levels.

If I were in charge of the curriculum, I wouldn't let kids take APUSH without having first taken a HS level US history course. I don't think DS is coming out with the kind of understanding he needs in life, generally, and I will strongly encourage him to take US history in college, even if the AP credit 'gets him out of it.' However, I am not in charge of the curriculum, and so given the givens, if I were doing it over I'd encourage him to do the same thing-- take APUSH instead of Honors. It is a good course. It is pushing the kids hard. They are learning more than I would expect from a HS level course and also learning study skills. And frankly, none of the other freshman courses are in any way difficult, so there is room in their day for this intense study. I just think it does kids a disservice to make this their only COLLEGE level course in US History (since the AP test could waive US History at a lot of universities).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You should know that AP classes are not what they once were. That is why kids are suddenly taking APs with out taking the HS level class first. I took me a while to figure this out. They may provide more challenge then the HS level course but are not college level. At our (non-W) HS the majority of kids take AP GOV, AP Lang etc. It is not the top select kids only with approval as it was in my day...

Yeah this is such BS but everyone plays the game to inflate the GPA for college admissions and remain competive in the class rank race again for college admissions

[Anonymous]

It's not just about GPA-- the Honors level courses just aren't challenging! (Plus, the honors classes count the same for GPA as the AP classes...)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should know that AP classes are not what they once were. That is why kids are suddenly taking APs with out taking the HS level class first. I took me a while to figure this out. They may provide more challenge then the HS level course but are not college level. At our (non-W) HS the majority of kids take AP GOV, AP Lang etc. It is not the top select kids only with approval as it was in my day...

Yeah this is such BS but everyone plays the game to inflate the GPA for college admissions and remain competive in the class rank race again for college admissions

Not sure what AP classes "once were" in your experience, but I went to high school in the early 1980's, and it wasn't much different from my kids' high school experience today. You took AP classes instead of the standard or advanced class in the same subject, not in addition to. I don't think AP courses were ever really "college level."

Also, most high schools these days don't do class rankings, and if they do, the colleges don't use them anyway.

[Anonymous]

There are also specialized tracks in some high schools to consider - Arts & Humanities, various technology/STEM tracks, etc. Talk to older students and their parents to get some perspective on these.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not just about GPA-- the Honors level courses just aren't challenging! (Plus, the honors classes count the same for GPA as the AP classes...)

Wrong. An Honors grade A is a 4.0 an AP grade A is a 5.0

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not just about GPA-- the Honors level courses just aren't challenging! (Plus, the honors classes count the same for GPA as the AP classes...)

Wrong. An Honors grade A is a 4.0 an AP grade A is a 5.0

Is that new? DC graduated 2 years ago and honors counted for 5.0 in the MCPS weighted grading system.

OP, the normal AP track varies by school. At DCs school the freshman AP class is AP gov and then those kids almost all take APUSH in 10th grade. The other track is Honors US in 9th followed by AP Gov (and of course you can do honors or both too). They start with AP Gov because it's an easier class than APUSH and better suited for freshman.

[Anonymous]

AP/Honors/IB are all the same GPA wise. A= 5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
He took health as the 3-week online/face-to-face course over this last summer, because that frees him up to take another full-year class during the year rather than balance out with a one-semester class.

Thank you so much for sharing this! We had no idea that health could be done this way. My son is figuring out his courses for 10th grade and was frustrated by the half-year Health class that was making things more complicated.

For others looking into it- found this info: http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/onlinelearning/courses/health.aspx

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:AP/Honors/IB are all the same GPA wise. A= 5.

Correct for MCPS. Papi's maybe is a different county...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:9th grade parent here.

At our MS, each of the 8th grade teachers made a recommendation for what kids should take and parents made the final call. The challenge is that the teachers gave the recommendation directly to the kid so as a parent, it was a lot of Q&A to figure out what the situation was.

One important consideration-- the typical 'sequence' of courses varies somewhat across MCPS schools. For instance, at our school, high achieving science students take chem in year 1 and both bio and AP physics in year 2. The MS science teacher told as much to the kid-- I didn't really understand why but went along with it (and am glad that we did, because at the time I didn't know that kids could skip Honors bio and go straight to AP bio as a sophomore-- so this sequence opens up an option you wouldn't have if taking bio as freshman).

At our school, the really BIG question was Honors US History or AP US History. A LOT of kids who had signed up for AP and transferred back to Honors in the first 6 weeks because of the AP workload--so many wanted to transfer out that they had a very hard time finding Honors courses to put them into so kids were sort of racing to the counselor's office. (And a lot--I think about 25% of freshman class-- stayed in AP).

But different high schools have different sequences (many recommend AP US Govt in freshman year, which I understand to have a much lower time commitment). So while DCUM can help you sort through options once you know what they are, make sure you are hearing what the options are from the MS teachers/counselors.

AP teacher here: Pushing AP US History on 9th graders is not a good decision. A ton of reading and new types of writing. Can 9th graders pass? Sure, but they pass in much higher numbers and with higher scores in later grades. If you can push back on your school's recommended track, I recommend AP US Government (MCPS' NSL) or AP Human Geography as much better choices for 9th grade. (Not AP World). You can see the difference in scores by school...

[Anonymous]

NP. Parent of middle schoolers. I appreciate all of this advice.

If the typical track at my kids’ high school (Whitman) is APUSH in grade 9, can we request NSL instead in grade 9 and APUSH in grade 10?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

AP teacher here: Pushing AP US History on 9th graders is not a good decision. A ton of reading and new types of writing. Can 9th graders pass? Sure, but they pass in much higher numbers and with higher scores in later grades. If you can push back on your school's recommended track, I recommend AP US Government (MCPS' NSL) or AP Human Geography as much better choices for 9th grade. (Not AP World). You can see the difference in scores by school...

I am the pp whose 9th grader took APUSH and would second this advice. My dd is doing fine in the class, but I've had some conversations with her that make me wish she were more mature/experienced when she took the course. History has nuance and requires understanding multiple perspectives. My dd is very intelligent, but I think she just lacks the life experience to see the shades of grey. (Of course, it's not clear to me that one or two years would make the difference-- what I really want her to do is take US History again in college, but the AP credits may dissuade her from doing that.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

AP teacher here: Pushing AP US History on 9th graders is not a good decision. A ton of reading and new types of writing. Can 9th graders pass? Sure, but they pass in much higher numbers and with higher scores in later grades. If you can push back on your school's recommended track, I recommend AP US Government (MCPS' NSL) or AP Human Geography as much better choices for 9th grade. (Not AP World). You can see the difference in scores by school...

I am the pp whose 9th grader took APUSH and would second this advice. My dd is doing fine in the class, but I've had some conversations with her that make me wish she were more mature/experienced when she took the course. History has nuance and requires understanding multiple perspectives. My dd is very intelligent, but I think she just lacks the life experience to see the shades of grey. (Of course, it's not clear to me that one or two years would make the difference-- what I really want her to do is take US History again in college, but the AP credits may dissuade her from doing that.)

+1 Wish colleges still required US history...