TJ Math 4

[Anonymous]

And as a parent of a TJ senior I am telling you it will resolve itself. The entire class won't get a final D on the report card. Your students know what to do - let them talk to the teacher, their counselors, their peers, etc.

But any future TJ parents please learn from this - several of the low grades may be because the students haven't had enough preparatory math. Don't rush your 9th grader into Math 4. Call or go to ANY meeting with a college admissions officer and they will tell you that accelerating for the sake of accelerating isn't an advantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your DCs will survive at TJ with a couple Ds and even Fs in the gradebook for a while - I promise. If you get this worked up in 9th grade, it will be a long slog for your and your DC will be miserable because you will make it so. It is a hard school. The kids are smart, the teachers are smart and 99.8% are very caring and help the students. Just calm down ...

+1.

I think it’s mostly the freshman parents who are freaking out. Please calm down and back up. Let your kid handle this. You are undoubtedly making more stress for your kid by your overreaction. It will be OK.

+ 100

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And as a parent of a TJ senior I am telling you it will resolve itself. The entire class won't get a final D on the report card. Your students know what to do - let them talk to the teacher, their counselors, their peers, etc.

But any future TJ parents please learn from this - several of the low grades may be because the students haven't had enough preparatory math. Don't rush your 9th grader into Math 4. Call or go to ANY meeting with a college admissions officer and they will tell you that accelerating for the sake of accelerating isn't an advantage.

As a current TJ parent, I agree with this. Every year, parents push theirs hrouummer school geometry to get them a year ahead and into TJ. And many don't get in. While I know quite a few kids who came in with just Algebra and are fine. And then they insist their kids take summer RS. So they can take freshman Math 4/5 and sophomore Calc. And the school says, and parents who have BTDT say: starting TJ in math 4 is a terrible idea. It's an incibly hard class and they will not get as good a foundation as the Math 3 kids. And the parents say, but my kid is a super special snowflake.

And this time every year, the same freshman parents have kids failing math 4, and dropping to math 3 and completely freaking out and seem genuinely shocked.

TJ isn't a race. And for 90% of the kids, no matter how smart, 1st semester freshman year Math 4 bad idea. If they must take summer geometry (and most kids whoget in don't) at least let them take RS 1st semester, so they can ask inoTJ math with the counselors keeping an eye on things, and the extra chances, and more understanding teachers.

I really hope the new math test weeds out these kids whose understanding of math is a mile wide and an inch deep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP - and the parents getting most fired up about Math 4 appear to be the ones who super accelerated their kids in summer school so they could take Math 4 in 9th grade ... 10th and 11th grade parents know the drill at TJ, including with retakes ...

Not really. Unhappy 10th grade parent here. I know the TJ math drill. You do not normally have to wait until the end of the quarter for retakes. You may or may not be limited to one retake per quarter, but you can retake promptly (within a week or two). A kid who can't retake until the end of the quarter does not know whether he gotten a better handle on the material. And does. It really know where he or she stands gradewise, and whether they are in trouble or not. Which is a problem, because Math 4 concepts build on each other. Also, math tests are generally curved to some version of a B. The average on this test was a 61-- a D-,and no curve is being given. Also, graded tests tests are always returned promptly. Under the self advocacy guidelines that is required so that kids can see what they missed and learn from their mistakes. These tests were graded more than a week ago. Most kids have not seen their test, and none of the tests have actually been returned. So it looks like they are trying to keep parents from seeing them.

I think the number of freshmen accelerated into Math 4 is making a bad problem worse. It is a really hard math class, and should not be your first TJ math test. I'm sure that brought the average grade down. But, it is not just freshmen parents who are unhappy. Believe me, my kid's sophomore friend's parents are also very, very unhappy. About the grades (in my kid's carpool they ranged from a 54 to a 62). About the lack of curve. Because flunking half the class is ridiculous. About the retake policy on the test. About the fact the teachers will not answer questions about point for test corrections, which is SOP in the math department. And mostly about the complete breakdown in communication.

And having a new principal is not helping this situation. For all of his faults, Dr. glazer did good job with PR. He would have recognized there were a couple hundred pissed off kids with pissed off parents, had the math department articulate a plan and emailed it out to math 4 kids and parents. There would be a curve/test corrections/retakes. And mostly, what was being done to make sure there was not a repeat on the next test. He definately had shortcomings. But, he was good on communication and damage control.

The silence from the new principal is not a good sign. The longer parents speculate among themselves and get worked up, and the longer kids TJ vent, the greater the chance Jay Matthew's writes a "Half of the Kids at the Nation's Top STEM School Can't Pass a Pre-Calculus Test" hit job article.

A D- average on a major test is a problem. Someone needs to solve it and communicate. I nominate the person in charge. But will take answers (not rumors, actual facts) from any TJ Rep.

Calm Down!! Why would any parent ask the car pool kids what their grade was? It's sneaky and invasion of privacy. I'm a freshman parent FWIW, let the teachers do their job and kids sort it out.

[Anonymous]

There is an easy solution to this

Make Math 4 not available to Freshman

To take Math 4 as a Freshman you are part of the problem accelerating for no reason. It's not helping anyone especially your kid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP - and the parents getting most fired up about Math 4 appear to be the ones who super accelerated their kids in summer school so they could take Math 4 in 9th grade ... 10th and 11th grade parents know the drill at TJ, including with retakes ...

Not really. Unhappy 10th grade parent here. I know the TJ math drill. You do not normally have to wait until the end of the quarter for retakes. You may or may not be limited to one retake per quarter, but you can retake promptly (within a week or two). A kid who can't retake until the end of the quarter does not know whether he gotten a better handle on the material. And does. It really know where he or she stands gradewise, and whether they are in trouble or not. Which is a problem, because Math 4 concepts build on each other. Also, math tests are generally curved to some version of a B. The average on this test was a 61-- a D-,and no curve is being given. Also, graded tests tests are always returned promptly. Under the self advocacy guidelines that is required so that kids can see what they missed and learn from their mistakes. These tests were graded more than a week ago. Most kids have not seen their test, and none of the tests have actually been returned. So it looks like they are trying to keep parents from seeing them.

I think the number of freshmen accelerated into Math 4 is making a bad problem worse. It is a really hard math class, and should not be your first TJ math test. I'm sure that brought the average grade down. But, it is not just freshmen parents who are unhappy. Believe me, my kid's sophomore friend's parents are also very, very unhappy. About the grades (in my kid's carpool they ranged from a 54 to a 62). About the lack of curve. Because flunking half the class is ridiculous. About the retake policy on the test. About the fact the teachers will not answer questions about point for test corrections, which is SOP in the math department. And mostly about the complete breakdown in communication.

And having a new principal is not helping this situation. For all of his faults, Dr. glazer did good job with PR. He would have recognized there were a couple hundred pissed off kids with pissed off parents, had the math department articulate a plan and emailed it out to math 4 kids and parents. There would be a curve/test corrections/retakes. And mostly, what was being done to make sure there was not a repeat on the next test. He definately had shortcomings. But, he was good on communication and damage control.

The silence from the new principal is not a good sign. The longer parents speculate among themselves and get worked up, and the longer kids TJ vent, the greater the chance Jay Matthew's writes a "Half of the Kids at the Nation's Top STEM School Can't Pass a Pre-Calculus Test" hit job article.

A D- average on a major test is a problem. Someone needs to solve it and communicate. I nominate the person in charge. But will take answers (not rumors, actual facts) from any TJ Rep.

Calm Down!! Why would any parent ask the car pool kids what their grade was? It's sneaky and invasion of privacy. I'm a freshman parent FWIW, let the teachers do their job and kids sort it out.

It may shock you to know that if you turn on NPR, shut up, and just drive the car for 45 minutes, teens will talk among themselves about all sorts of things— including how badly they got “shafted” by a math test and how upset and angry they are. It’s like when mom is driving carpool, she does not even exist. It’s a great way to learn all sorts of things about what is really going on in your teen’s life. Drive carpool, day nothing, and pretend you can’t hear them. It may be sneaky, I guess. But really— who do they think is driving.

I would never ask a kid what their grades are like. Does not mean they will not tell my kid.

[Anonymous]

Update from BTS night - they are giving a bonus quiz for next week. They said they did not feel like the test was too hard but did acknowledge it was too long. Quiz is ten extra bonus points.

[Anonymous]

But, mind you, this isn't curving. Setting grades at pre-determined percentages is stupid. One can always design a test to attempt to get any mean and standard deviation you want. If you fail, just resort to these tactics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But, mind you, this isn't curving. Setting grades at pre-determined percentages is stupid. One can always design a test to attempt to get any mean and standard deviation you want. If you fail, just resort to these tactics.

I never realized before this how extreme the grade inflation is at TJ. The emperor has no clothes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And as a parent of a TJ senior I am telling you it will resolve itself. The entire class won't get a final D on the report card. Your students know what to do - let them talk to the teacher, their counselors, their peers, etc.

But any future TJ parents please learn from this - several of the low grades may be because the students haven't had enough preparatory math. Don't rush your 9th grader into Math 4. Call or go to ANY meeting with a college admissions officer and they will tell you that accelerating for the sake of accelerating isn't an advantage.

As a current TJ parent, I agree with this. Every year, parents push theirs hrouummer school geometry to get them a year ahead and into TJ. And many don't get in. While I know quite a few kids who came in with just Algebra and are fine. And then they insist their kids take summer RS. So they can take freshman Math 4/5 and sophomore Calc. And the school says, and parents who have BTDT say: starting TJ in math 4 is a terrible idea. It's an incibly hard class and they will not get as good a foundation as the Math 3 kids. And the parents say, but my kid is a super special snowflake.

And this time every year, the same freshman parents have kids failing math 4, and dropping to math 3 and completely freaking out and seem genuinely shocked.

TJ isn't a race. And for 90% of the kids, no matter how smart, 1st semester freshman year Math 4 bad idea. If they must take summer geometry (and most kids whoget in don't) at least let them take RS 1st semester, so they can ask inoTJ math with the counselors keeping an eye on things, and the extra chances, and more understanding teachers.

I really hope the new math test weeds out these kids whose understanding of math is a mile wide and an inch deep.

TJ in 10 years at current immigration levels.

[Anonymous]

Not really the point, but to each their own.

Back in the old days before grade inflation, " everyone" flunked out.

[Anonymous]

This is not grade inflation. Langley - 20% of the class has 4.5 weighted. TJ - maybe 3 kids get that ... when TJ kids have had about 10 more AP or post-AP classes than the average Langley kid. Just saying .... B-, B, even C - common grade at TJ -- on the report card.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is not grade inflation. Langley - 20% of the class has 4.5 weighted. TJ - maybe 3 kids get that ... when TJ kids have had about 10 more AP or post-AP classes than the average Langley kid. Just saying .... B-, B, even C - common grade at TJ -- on the report card.

What is your source for the 20% of class having a 4.5 weighted at Langley?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But, mind you, this isn't curving. Setting grades at pre-determined percentages is stupid. One can always design a test to attempt to get any mean and standard deviation you want. If you fail, just resort to these tactics.

I never realized before this how extreme the grade inflation is at TJ. The emperor has no clothes.

The average grade on this test was a 61. I'm not sure how giving kids the opportunity to raise the average to a 71-- a C- is grade inflation??

Approximately 2% of FCPS kids graduate from TJ. The administration says that each year a small handful of kids-- usually at least one, never as many as 5-- of the 450 who graduate-- have an unweighted 4.0. If a kid is putting in the work (and it is a lot of work), going to 8th period and using peer tutoring in weak subjects, taking right leveled, not getting in over their head classes (see the kids not ready for Math 4) AND not taking too heavy a load-- on average 3-4 APs junior year, then they should be able to avoid getting Cs and Ds. But that's a lot of ifs. And it's open season on Bs. Bs and B+s are very common and very respectable grades, and most kids have a department where they get them. My kid is just a B math student, which is not considered being weak in math. He just isn't incredibly strong. Some kids get Bs in the Humanities blocks. Some in chemistry and physics. Certain foreign language classes have a lot of Bs. Every kid hits them some time, in some subject, or some year when they overload.

And again, this is a test in magnet that takes only 2% of FCPS kids. Over 100 NMSFs. Over 300 NMSFs plus NMSF commendeds. Almost all of these kids had unweighted 4.0s in MS, including high school level math and foreign language. And, almost all of these kids would have unweighted 4.0s at their base high schools.

You can accuse TJ of a lot of things and have a point. Stress. Cheating. Too much homework. All fair points. But, accusing TJ of grade inflation is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is not grade inflation. Langley - 20% of the class has 4.5 weighted. TJ - maybe 3 kids get that ... when TJ kids have had about 10 more AP or post-AP classes than the average Langley kid. Just saying .... B-, B, even C - common grade at TJ -- on the report card.

Wow, 10 more AP classes than Langley students means even PE at TJ must be AP...because I know kids at base schools who are on track to take 15 AP or post-APs by the time they finish.
Gee, if they're so advanced, how is it that Langley has beaten them twice in the last three years at SO, without any of the amazing TJ resources and advanced curriculum at their disposal?
How is it that a good number of TJ kids don't score pass advanced on their math and science SOLs, which are minimum proficiency exams?
http://schoolprofiles.fcps.edu/schlprfl/f?p=108:18:::NO:0_CURRENT_SCHOOL_ID,P0_EDSL:300,0
(This is where you say, "they're too busy doing far more advanced things to care about extracurriculars or SOLs").

At base schools, a grade is a grade. I don't know of any classes that curve to begin with, let alone where only the bottom 5% (two standard deviations below the mean?) end up with a D or below as a result of the curve, which is what was claimed on this thread or its predecessor.

Ridiculous statements like the above are going to get you flamed with facts every time.