S/O - Potential defector from ACPS to APS, how does the gifted program work?

[Anonymous]

I hate the "all schools have capacity challenges" poster. Here's how one APS household sees the situation in Arlington.

1) the last two substantial parcels of land are under discussion for acquisition. In the current proposals a Carlin Springs lot will very likely be used for bus depot (schools and public transit) and Buck site almost certainly for first responders. As someone concerned that there is NO site identified for a fourth comprehensive high school, I see this as another nail in that coffin.
2) the county is claiming in the absence of land (and there are no other readily available lots left in the county), they will pursue options like shift schedulling and distance learning to meet capacity challenges. That's right, your tax dollars could go to pay for your child to essentially have NO seat in a school.
3) the county is making their problems worse by approving high rise construction with high density population. They don't have seats for the students ALREADY in the county, but everyone loves their developer fees and no one has ownership over how the schools will competently educate its students in 7+ years.

No other school system has this toxic mix of shortsightedness and land constraints. People who are happy today appear not to have awareness of how the APS system will look in 10 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate the "all schools have capacity challenges" poster. Here's how one APS household sees the situation in Arlington.

1) the last two substantial parcels of land are under discussion for acquisition. In the current proposals a Carlin Springs lot will very likely be used for bus depot (schools and public transit) and Buck site almost certainly for first responders. As someone concerned that there is NO site identified for a fourth comprehensive high school, I see this as another nail in that coffin.
2) the county is claiming in the absence of land (and there are no other readily available lots left in the county), they will pursue options like shift schedulling and distance learning to meet capacity challenges. That's right, your tax dollars could go to pay for your child to essentially have NO seat in a school.
3) the county is making their problems worse by approving high rise construction with high density population. They don't have seats for the students ALREADY in the county, but everyone loves their developer fees and no one has ownership over how the schools will competently educate its students in 7+ years.

No other school system has this toxic mix of shortsightedness and land constraints. People who are happy today appear not to have awareness of how the APS system will look in 10 years.

If they are as selfish as many Arlingtonians have become, and will be out of the school system by then, they probably just don't care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate the "all schools have capacity challenges" poster. Here's how one APS household sees the situation in Arlington.

1) the last two substantial parcels of land are under discussion for acquisition. In the current proposals a Carlin Springs lot will very likely be used for bus depot (schools and public transit) and Buck site almost certainly for first responders. As someone concerned that there is NO site identified for a fourth comprehensive high school, I see this as another nail in that coffin.
2) the county is claiming in the absence of land (and there are no other readily available lots left in the county), they will pursue options like shift schedulling and distance learning to meet capacity challenges. That's right, your tax dollars could go to pay for your child to essentially have NO seat in a school.
3) the county is making their problems worse by approving high rise construction with high density population. They don't have seats for the students ALREADY in the county, but everyone loves their developer fees and no one has ownership over how the schools will competently educate its students in 7+ years.

No other school system has this toxic mix of shortsightedness and land constraints. People who are happy today appear not to have awareness of how the APS system will look in 10 years.

They've identified three potential sites for a fourth high school, and the current plan is to create a new high school. Whether it will be a comprehensive high school or a choice program is still up in the air, but it's simply untrue that there are no options for locations for the fourth high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the "all schools have capacity challenges" poster. Here's how one APS household sees the situation in Arlington.

1) the last two substantial parcels of land are under discussion for acquisition. In the current proposals a Carlin Springs lot will very likely be used for bus depot (schools and public transit) and Buck site almost certainly for first responders. As someone concerned that there is NO site identified for a fourth comprehensive high school, I see this as another nail in that coffin.
2) the county is claiming in the absence of land (and there are no other readily available lots left in the county), they will pursue options like shift schedulling and distance learning to meet capacity challenges. That's right, your tax dollars could go to pay for your child to essentially have NO seat in a school.
3) the county is making their problems worse by approving high rise construction with high density population. They don't have seats for the students ALREADY in the county, but everyone loves their developer fees and no one has ownership over how the schools will competently educate its students in 7+ years.

No other school system has this toxic mix of shortsightedness and land constraints. People who are happy today appear not to have awareness of how the APS system will look in 10 years.

They've identified three potential sites for a fourth high school, and the current plan is to create a new high school. Whether it will be a comprehensive high school or a choice program is still up in the air, but it's simply untrue that there are no options for locations for the fourth high school.

Huh? I follow this issue pretty closely and this is not true at all. The last CIP included funding to add 1300 more high school seats-- which is *not* a full high school and *not* enough seats to get us past 2022. Even with that funding, the only spots they came up with are the office building on the WL parking lot (for 700 seats) and an addition to the existing Career Center (for another 700 seats). Now, maybe you have never been to any of those sites, but they are not "fourth high school" locations--- they do not have any field space and it is unclear that they will even have space for a gym/auditorium. These will be spaces where extra classrooms can be housed, but the kids will be going back to the other three comprehensive high schools for all sports and activities (and in the case of the Ed Center @ WL-- possibly for lunch and gym class). The County has not yet identified any space capable of housing a full-size 2200 seat high school, which is what we need post-2022 to deal with the influx of kids currently in elementary school and below when APS is projected to hit 40,000 kids.

The limitation in APS is not funding-- it is land. We can't buy our way out of this pickle. This is also why not every ES can "hire more teachers" to keep the class sizes small-- for many of the schools that are already pushing 5-6 classes per grade, there isn't any room to add more trailers. We already have at least two elementary schools in this county with no field space left due to the trailers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the "all schools have capacity challenges" poster. Here's how one APS household sees the situation in Arlington.

1) the last two substantial parcels of land are under discussion for acquisition. In the current proposals a Carlin Springs lot will very likely be used for bus depot (schools and public transit) and Buck site almost certainly for first responders. As someone concerned that there is NO site identified for a fourth comprehensive high school, I see this as another nail in that coffin.
2) the county is claiming in the absence of land (and there are no other readily available lots left in the county), they will pursue options like shift schedulling and distance learning to meet capacity challenges. That's right, your tax dollars could go to pay for your child to essentially have NO seat in a school.
3) the county is making their problems worse by approving high rise construction with high density population. They don't have seats for the students ALREADY in the county, but everyone loves their developer fees and no one has ownership over how the schools will competently educate its students in 7+ years.

No other school system has this toxic mix of shortsightedness and land constraints. People who are happy today appear not to have awareness of how the APS system will look in 10 years.

They've identified three potential sites for a fourth high school, and the current plan is to create a new high school. Whether it will be a comprehensive high school or a choice program is still up in the air, but it's simply untrue that there are no options for locations for the fourth high school.

Huh? I follow this issue pretty closely and this is not true at all. The last CIP included funding to add 1300 more high school seats-- which is *not* a full high school and *not* enough seats to get us past 2022. Even with that funding, the only spots they came up with are the office building on the WL parking lot (for 700 seats) and an addition to the existing Career Center (for another 700 seats). Now, maybe you have never been to any of those sites, but they are not "fourth high school" locations--- they do not have any field space and it is unclear that they will even have space for a gym/auditorium. These will be spaces where extra classrooms can be housed, but the kids will be going back to the other three comprehensive high schools for all sports and activities (and in the case of the Ed Center @ WL-- possibly for lunch and gym class). The County has not yet identified any space capable of housing a full-size 2200 seat high school, which is what we need post-2022 to deal with the influx of kids currently in elementary school and below when APS is projected to hit 40,000 kids.

The limitation in APS is not funding-- it is land. We can't buy our way out of this pickle. This is also why not every ES can "hire more teachers" to keep the class sizes small-- for many of the schools that are already pushing 5-6 classes per grade, there isn't any room to add more trailers. We already have at least two elementary schools in this county with no field space left due to the trailers.

Look at the most recent More Seats for More Students presentation.

[Anonymous]

If you desire gifted programs/options/standards, move to FFX not Arlington. They have a well established gifted program that runs very different to ApS. All programs have their issues (and ffx is certainly not perfect) but consensus would suggest that the FFX gifted options iate more robust and can better cater to highly gifted vs APS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you desire gifted programs/options/standards, move to FFX not Arlington. They have a well established gifted program that runs very different to ApS. All programs have their issues (and ffx is certainly not perfect) but consensus would suggest that the FFX gifted options iate more robust and can better cater to highly gifted vs APS.

We considered moving to Fairfax from APS for AAP for our highly gifted child. Based on our research, including talking to local education specialists, it didn't seem like Fairfax does meaningfully better for truly highly gifted. Eventually we will probably end up in private school, but not as long as our child is happy at school (albeit bored at times).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the "all schools have capacity challenges" poster. Here's how one APS household sees the situation in Arlington.

1) the last two substantial parcels of land are under discussion for acquisition. In the current proposals a Carlin Springs lot will very likely be used for bus depot (schools and public transit) and Buck site almost certainly for first responders. As someone concerned that there is NO site identified for a fourth comprehensive high school, I see this as another nail in that coffin.
2) the county is claiming in the absence of land (and there are no other readily available lots left in the county), they will pursue options like shift schedulling and distance learning to meet capacity challenges. That's right, your tax dollars could go to pay for your child to essentially have NO seat in a school.
3) the county is making their problems worse by approving high rise construction with high density population. They don't have seats for the students ALREADY in the county, but everyone loves their developer fees and no one has ownership over how the schools will competently educate its students in 7+ years.

No other school system has this toxic mix of shortsightedness and land constraints. People who are happy today appear not to have awareness of how the APS system will look in 10 years.

They've identified three potential sites for a fourth high school, and the current plan is to create a new high school. Whether it will be a comprehensive high school or a choice program is still up in the air, but it's simply untrue that there are no options for locations for the fourth high school.

Huh? I follow this issue pretty closely and this is not true at all. The last CIP included funding to add 1300 more high school seats-- which is *not* a full high school and *not* enough seats to get us past 2022. Even with that funding, the only spots they came up with are the office building on the WL parking lot (for 700 seats) and an addition to the existing Career Center (for another 700 seats). Now, maybe you have never been to any of those sites, but they are not "fourth high school" locations--- they do not have any field space and it is unclear that they will even have space for a gym/auditorium. These will be spaces where extra classrooms can be housed, but the kids will be going back to the other three comprehensive high schools for all sports and activities (and in the case of the Ed Center @ WL-- possibly for lunch and gym class). The County has not yet identified any space capable of housing a full-size 2200 seat high school, which is what we need post-2022 to deal with the influx of kids currently in elementary school and below when APS is projected to hit 40,000 kids.

The limitation in APS is not funding-- it is land. We can't buy our way out of this pickle. This is also why not every ES can "hire more teachers" to keep the class sizes small-- for many of the schools that are already pushing 5-6 classes per grade, there isn't any room to add more trailers. We already have at least two elementary schools in this county with no field space left due to the trailers.

Look at the most recent More Seats for More Students presentation.

Link? What are you seeing? There's no plan for a fourth comprehensive HS. Just some haphazard seats being shoved onto existing schools' campuses at W-L and Arl Tech.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate the "all schools have capacity challenges" poster. Here's how one APS household sees the situation in Arlington.

1) the last two substantial parcels of land are under discussion for acquisition. In the current proposals a Carlin Springs lot will very likely be used for bus depot (schools and public transit) and Buck site almost certainly for first responders. As someone concerned that there is NO site identified for a fourth comprehensive high school, I see this as another nail in that coffin.
2) the county is claiming in the absence of land (and there are no other readily available lots left in the county), they will pursue options like shift schedulling and distance learning to meet capacity challenges. That's right, your tax dollars could go to pay for your child to essentially have NO seat in a school.
3) the county is making their problems worse by approving high rise construction with high density population. They don't have seats for the students ALREADY in the county, but everyone loves their developer fees and no one has ownership over how the schools will competently educate its students in 7+ years.

No other school system has this toxic mix of shortsightedness and land constraints. People who are happy today appear not to have awareness of how the APS system will look in 10 years.

They've identified three potential sites for a fourth high school, and the current plan is to create a new high school. Whether it will be a comprehensive high school or a choice program is still up in the air, but it's simply untrue that there are no options for locations for the fourth high school.

Huh? I follow this issue pretty closely and this is not true at all. The last CIP included funding to add 1300 more high school seats-- which is *not* a full high school and *not* enough seats to get us past 2022. Even with that funding, the only spots they came up with are the office building on the WL parking lot (for 700 seats) and an addition to the existing Career Center (for another 700 seats). Now, maybe you have never been to any of those sites, but they are not "fourth high school" locations--- they do not have any field space and it is unclear that they will even have space for a gym/auditorium. These will be spaces where extra classrooms can be housed, but the kids will be going back to the other three comprehensive high schools for all sports and activities (and in the case of the Ed Center @ WL-- possibly for lunch and gym class). The County has not yet identified any space capable of housing a full-size 2200 seat high school, which is what we need post-2022 to deal with the influx of kids currently in elementary school and below when APS is projected to hit 40,000 kids.

The limitation in APS is not funding-- it is land. We can't buy our way out of this pickle. This is also why not every ES can "hire more teachers" to keep the class sizes small-- for many of the schools that are already pushing 5-6 classes per grade, there isn't any room to add more trailers. We already have at least two elementary schools in this county with no field space left due to the trailers.

Look at the most recent More Seats for More Students presentation.

Link? What are you seeing? There's no plan for a fourth comprehensive HS. Just some haphazard seats being shoved onto existing schools' campuses at W-L and Arl Tech.

I have no clue what this person is talking about either... Here's a link to the ArlNow story about the June School Board vote to split the 1300 seats between the Ed Center and the Career Center by 2022. There are no other plans to add any other high school seats on the table right now. https://www.arlnow.com/2017/06/30/school-board-chooses-hybrid-option-for-new-high-school/

[Anonymous]

The truth on the high school issue is somewhere in the middle of all of these posts. Even if some posters think the sites are less than ideal, the plan is to create 1,300 new high school seats, whether spread over a couple of expansion sites or through the construction of a new neighborhood high school building. The school board is still seeking land for an additional 2,200-seat high school. Lack of land space is a significant issue, but the county has options on some other properties that may become available in the next few years, and is constantly looking for new opportunities to acquire land. They can't make land appear out of nowhere, though, as pp pointed out, and the county has many competing needs that shouldn't be dismissed (first responders? mass transit? let's not pretend they're looking to build another artisphere on these parcels). Part of the rational for using expansions for those 1,300 seats is that it preserves options for creating another, larger high school down the road.

As for the high-rise development, that's simply not a huge driver of the school-aged population increase. If it were, Discovery wouldn't have built where it was to relieve the massive overcrowding in Nottingham and Tuckhoe and McKinley wouldn't have gotten the big expansion; all of those resources would have gone to where the high-rise development is. The vast majority of the people moving into that new high rise development do not have school-aged children, and they tend to move out before their children are school-aged. In the meantime, the additional tax revenue from those buildings provides revenue that can be used for, among other things, additional school infrastructure. For that to happen, though, the county board needs to do a better job of acknowledging and funding the needs of the school-aged population, and the parents of the school-aged population need to accept that part of the reality of living in a semi-urban area is that their schools won't all be placed on sprawling grounds will acres of green space.

[Anonymous]

My kid was designated gifted, and for APS middle school, I don't recall that she received any extra services.

[Anonymous]

Something like 80% of kids in Arlington are identified as gifted by middle school so the reality is the "programming" doesn't amount to much. If the label is what you're after, you'll probably get it. But if you're looking for genuine services, you may need to go private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you desire gifted programs/options/standards, move to FFX not Arlington. They have a well established gifted program that runs very different to ApS. All programs have their issues (and ffx is certainly not perfect) but consensus would suggest that the FFX gifted options iate more robust and can better cater to highly gifted vs APS.

We considered moving to Fairfax from APS for AAP for our highly gifted child. Based on our research, including talking to local education specialists, it didn't seem like Fairfax does meaningfully better for truly highly gifted. Eventually we will probably end up in private school, but not as long as our child is happy at school (albeit bored at times).

Truly gifted children don't get bored in school because they can always find something to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The truth on the high school issue is somewhere in the middle of all of these posts. Even if some posters think the sites are less than ideal, the plan is to create 1,300 new high school seats, whether spread over a couple of expansion sites or through the construction of a new neighborhood high school building. The school board is still seeking land for an additional 2,200-seat high school. Lack of land space is a significant issue, but the county has options on some other properties that may become available in the next few years, and is constantly looking for new opportunities to acquire land. They can't make land appear out of nowhere, though, as pp pointed out, and the county has many competing needs that shouldn't be dismissed (first responders? mass transit? let's not pretend they're looking to build another artisphere on these parcels). Part of the rational for using expansions for those 1,300 seats is that it preserves options for creating another, larger high school down the road.

As for the high-rise development, that's simply not a huge driver of the school-aged population increase. If it were, Discovery wouldn't have built where it was to relieve the massive overcrowding in Nottingham and Tuckhoe and McKinley wouldn't have gotten the big expansion; all of those resources would have gone to where the high-rise development is. The vast majority of the people moving into that new high rise development do not have school-aged children, and they tend to move out before their children are school-aged. In the meantime, the additional tax revenue from those buildings provides revenue that can be used for, among other things, additional school infrastructure. For that to happen, though, the county board needs to do a better job of acknowledging and funding the needs of the school-aged population, and the parents of the school-aged population need to accept that part of the reality of living in a semi-urban area is that their schools won't all be placed on sprawling grounds will acres of green space.

That vote already happened, and they decided to spread the seats to two existing schools. There will not be a new neighborhood school. It has been decided.

Also, while the majority of students are not being generated by high rise dwellers now, there are more kids than expected coming from them in the R-B corridor and we can't know that high risers will continue to move away once their kids are school-aged. I know a few people who have gotten "stuck" in their condos for longer than expected. They liked their zoned school and could not afford SFHs in the same neighborhood and didn't want to move farther away from their jobs, so they decided to stay put. So far they are sticking it out half-way through ES. Will they stay in those condos through HS? Likely not, but their plans are to save up and hopefully be able to afford a home in the same zone by that point. It's plausible that more families could make that same choice rather than move. In addition, AH that is geared towards families is having an affect on schools. Not a reason not to build AH, but it has to be taken into consideration when forecasting the number of students. As you said, the vast majority of crowding is currently being driven by SFHs, from tear downs, where much larger homes are replacing smaller homes, or where tear down lots are subdivided and more new homes are being built. Bigger and more SFHs= more students. All of this must be taken into consideration. As must the fact that most kids who are in the system now are not going to magically disappear at some future point.

As to parents' expectations of sprawling campuses, I don't think that's fair. It's not as is there are opportunities for these new urban-style school of which you speak either. I was on the working group to site the newest ES. It was made very clear that those pushing for office building space had no idea of the challenges. For one: no such building is on the market for anything close to what the school system can afford. The ONLY reason Fairfax was able to accomplish this was a building went into in default and FCPS bought it for a song. There are no such properties in Arlington, and the person who heads up acquisition for the county has no expectation of such an opportunity arising here. And they would never lease a building (too costly not to own it). Some sort of field/green space is a must for every school. Does every HS need a stadium and pool? Maybe not, but if it's going to have lesser facilities, than it had better not be built in a neighborhood where the majority of zoned kids would be on fr/l, because that's REALLY bad optics for a school system that doesn't need any further bad optics. If it's going to be different than all the other neighborhood HS, it can't be a zoned school, and it will have to be an option school. I think many would be fine with making that trade-off, assuming the focus is a popular one (like H-B).

[Anonymous]

Honestly, as a parent in ACPS who left, the capacity issue was the main reason we opted for McLean. It's going to come to a head in Arlington and I don't see any solution that isn't virtual/online schools or shift scheduling happening.