What to do when VP schedules meeting to "debrief" on error you made?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most posters on DCUM are dog-eat-dog types; they're going to tell you to bend over and spread the cheeks. Ignore them and figure out your long term goals. If you don't have any other options, say whatever necessary to keep your job. If you have options, stand your ground.

Or they're people who've actually worked in a professional environment and no that some sort of dog-ate-my-homework/it's-never-my-fault attitude isn't going to get you anywhere, including if your long-term goals involve having a positive reference from a prior employer. The mistake's been made and all you can control your response. All mistakes occur because there's a problem in the process or there's a problem with a person in the process. Figure out what it is and find a solution, know how to present a solution in a direct and logical way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The easier and comforting advice to follow is to accept responsibility, etc...

Based on the facts you have presented and my experience, I wouldn't do that here.

The project was de-prioritized. The VP may be looking for a reason to blame the loss of deal on. It's time to turn the VP and SVP against each other.

In my experience, unfortunately, the craft pyschopaths generally did well while the upstanding worker bees took the fall and got passed up for promotions.

You sound like you do good work, so get busy sharpening your elbows and defend yourself - without looking defensive.

To VP:
You have to sounds like you are taking responsibility while actually blaming SVP

"Yes, it is unfortunate that the result came to x dollars over y years. When I ran some test scenarios, I saw the result might be different under a, b, c assumptions but didn't run them through the model because SVP told me pencils down.

To SVP:

Same intro as above. Except "It made sense to prioritize VP's client. I understand. Especially in light of non-signed VP client telling VP they had no intent to sign.

This is OP and you have described me to a T. I was asked to take on this project, knowing the inherent risks due to no support, and I threw myself into it and have been met with praise from all levels of the organization (including the VP in question, until none of his deals sold and now he's coming after me). And yet, I continue to get passed up for promo, despite even my boss saying I've earned it, due to "budget pitfalls" while these VPs continue to receive huge bonus checks. I love your advice because it accurately reflects the truth about SVP telling me pencils down, etc.

It's 13:09 again. All professional service organizations (banks, consulting firms, law firms) are pyramids: there's not enough room at the top for all the mid-level staff despite all the talk of promotions and valuing human capital. If you let yourself be blamed for anything, you are just making it easier for them to not promote you as the pyramid gets skinnier.

For all you know the VP and SVP occasionally clash or jockey for position amongst their superiors/peers. They each need to be scared that you, as the 'witness' to what happened will make them look bad. It is NOT about your technical output from the model (which you readily concede reflected X instead of Y). It's about who fucked up: the VP or SVP. Once they have that mindset, they both quickly let it die.

The debrief is an attempt by the VP to get you to say something incriminating. You need to turn the tables, even if you have to get creative and reference something vague but clearly threatening and worrisome to the VP. But deliver it like you don't realize you're making a threat.

[Anonymous]

You will want to cut off your little finger before the meeting and have it ready to present to him to expiate your shame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The easier and comforting advice to follow is to accept responsibility, etc...

Based on the facts you have presented and my experience, I wouldn't do that here.

The project was de-prioritized. The VP may be looking for a reason to blame the loss of deal on. It's time to turn the VP and SVP against each other.

In my experience, unfortunately, the craft pyschopaths generally did well while the upstanding worker bees took the fall and got passed up for promotions.

You sound like you do good work, so get busy sharpening your elbows and defend yourself - without looking defensive.

To VP:
You have to sounds like you are taking responsibility while actually blaming SVP

"Yes, it is unfortunate that the result came to x dollars over y years. When I ran some test scenarios, I saw the result might be different under a, b, c assumptions but didn't run them through the model because SVP told me pencils down.

To SVP:

Same intro as above. Except "It made sense to prioritize VP's client. I understand. Especially in light of non-signed VP client telling VP they had no intent to sign.

This is OP and you have described me to a T. I was asked to take on this project, knowing the inherent risks due to no support, and I threw myself into it and have been met with praise from all levels of the organization (including the VP in question, until none of his deals sold and now he's coming after me). And yet, I continue to get passed up for promo, despite even my boss saying I've earned it, due to "budget pitfalls" while these VPs continue to receive huge bonus checks. I love your advice because it accurately reflects the truth about SVP telling me pencils down, etc.

It's 13:09 again. All professional service organizations (banks, consulting firms, law firms) are pyramids: there's not enough room at the top for all the mid-level staff despite all the talk of promotions and valuing human capital. If you let yourself be blamed for anything, you are just making it easier for them to not promote you as the pyramid gets skinnier.

For all you know the VP and SVP occasionally clash or jockey for position amongst their superiors/peers. They each need to be scared that you, as the 'witness' to what happened will make them look bad. It is NOT about your technical output from the model (which you readily concede reflected X instead of Y). It's about who fucked up: the VP or SVP. Once they have that mindset, they both quickly let it die.

The debrief is an attempt by the VP to get you to say something incriminating. You need to turn the tables, even if you have to get creative and reference something vague but clearly threatening and worrisome to the VP. But deliver it like you don't realize you're making a threat.

Oooo, I like this. Will have to think about ways to creatively insert something like that. THank you! And yup this is a consulting firm, no surprise there

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You will want to cut off your little finger before the meeting and have it ready to present to him to expiate your shame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The easier and comforting advice to follow is to accept responsibility, etc...

Based on the facts you have presented and my experience, I wouldn't do that here.

The project was de-prioritized. The VP may be looking for a reason to blame the loss of deal on. It's time to turn the VP and SVP against each other.

In my experience, unfortunately, the craft pyschopaths generally did well while the upstanding worker bees took the fall and got passed up for promotions.

You sound like you do good work, so get busy sharpening your elbows and defend yourself - without looking defensive.

To VP:
You have to sounds like you are taking responsibility while actually blaming SVP

"Yes, it is unfortunate that the result came to x dollars over y years. When I ran some test scenarios, I saw the result might be different under a, b, c assumptions but didn't run them through the model because SVP told me pencils down.

To SVP:

Same intro as above. Except "It made sense to prioritize VP's client. I understand. Especially in light of non-signed VP client telling VP they had no intent to sign.

This is OP and you have described me to a T. I was asked to take on this project, knowing the inherent risks due to no support, and I threw myself into it and have been met with praise from all levels of the organization (including the VP in question, until none of his deals sold and now he's coming after me). And yet, I continue to get passed up for promo, despite even my boss saying I've earned it, due to "budget pitfalls" while these VPs continue to receive huge bonus checks. I love your advice because it accurately reflects the truth about SVP telling me pencils down, etc.

It's 13:09 again. All professional service organizations (banks, consulting firms, law firms) are pyramids: there's not enough room at the top for all the mid-level staff despite all the talk of promotions and valuing human capital. If you let yourself be blamed for anything, you are just making it easier for them to not promote you as the pyramid gets skinnier.

For all you know the VP and SVP occasionally clash or jockey for position amongst their superiors/peers. They each need to be scared that you, as the 'witness' to what happened will make them look bad. It is NOT about your technical output from the model (which you readily concede reflected X instead of Y). It's about who fucked up: the VP or SVP. Once they have that mindset, they both quickly let it die.

The debrief is an attempt by the VP to get you to say something incriminating. You need to turn the tables, even if you have to get creative and reference something vague but clearly threatening and worrisome to the VP. But deliver it like you don't realize you're making a threat.

Oooo, I like this. Will have to think about ways to creatively insert something like that. THank you! And yup this is a consulting firm, no surprise there

There's one more layer here.  This may be the beginning of a dynamic where its critically important to pick the right side (VP or SVP) to align yourself with.

Scenario 1

The SVP has a very strong position within the organization.  He/she generates a lot of revenue, is well-liked and has all the key relationships in industry, making it really tough for rising VPs to make a name for themselves.  In this case, the VP may be spinning his/her wheels - chasing a lot of low probability stuff that never closes.  The VP literally spends every waking minute worrying about revenue generation.  In all likelihood, the VP won't make it long term because the SVP has things locked up.  Just not enough room for them both. 

Scenario 2
The SVP is dead wood.  Been there a while, but not bringing in any business.  The VP is up and coming and in a short time will be an SVP.  The current SVP is worried and doing his/her best to undermine (hence the re-directing of resources).

It sounds to me more like scenario 1 is playing out.  But the point is you need to keep and eye on things and pick the right side if there is a competitive dynamic . So in scenario 2, while the VP may have screwed you, be sure you don't hitch your wagon to the wrong star. You can still play them off each other (the core advice), but you may need to think a few steps forward in case it doesn't die. 

[Anonymous]

So what ever happened? How was the meeting? What strategy did u use?