Vienna VA - Feedback Please on MS and HS Options

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live near Wolftrap and are zoned for Kilmer - Madison. We loved the neighborhood and didn't know about the split when we purchased the house. I'm not worried about it. The kids in the neighborhood are all close and who knows who they will be friends with in a few years anyway. We have heard people zoned for Marshall talk about possibly pupil placing later for AP and vice versa for IB. It's impossible to predict where all of their friends will end up.

The analysis isn't the same if your kids attend elementary school in the area before going to Kilmer and then Madison. If your child has 60+ kids they know from elementary school, then most of those same kids will be continuing on to Madison after Kilmer. Not a social problem.

If your child is new to the area going into Kilmer, and then is part of the 10% that goes on to Madison, there is a very real likelihood that your child will know no one or almost no one going over to Madison. That's the difference.

Easy to solve split feeder problem if the Kilmer boundaries became the Marshall boundaries and the Thoreau boundaries became the Madison boundaries. But then some Town kids might have to go to Marshall (gasp).

Kilmer and Thoreau are very close to one another. Just as easy to move all of the kids in Dunn Loring to Kilmer and they are closer to Marshall. there are no Madison bound kids that are close to Marshall.

Not going to happen. Thoreau is almost in Dunn Loring (the closest neighborhood is Dunn Loring Woods). Would you have kids who live a few blocks from Thoreau go to Kilmer instead? The Vienna middle schools will just continue to be split feeders when they don't need to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live near Wolftrap and are zoned for Kilmer - Madison. We loved the neighborhood and didn't know about the split when we purchased the house. I'm not worried about it. The kids in the neighborhood are all close and who knows who they will be friends with in a few years anyway. We have heard people zoned for Marshall talk about possibly pupil placing later for AP and vice versa for IB. It's impossible to predict where all of their friends will end up.

The analysis isn't the same if your kids attend elementary school in the area before going to Kilmer and then Madison. If your child has 60+ kids they know from elementary school, then most of those same kids will be continuing on to Madison after Kilmer. Not a social problem.

If your child is new to the area going into Kilmer, and then is part of the 10% that goes on to Madison, there is a very real likelihood that your child will know no one or almost no one going over to Madison. That's the difference.

Easy to solve split feeder problem if the Kilmer boundaries became the Marshall boundaries and the Thoreau boundaries became the Madison boundaries. But then some Town kids might have to go to Marshall (gasp).

Kilmer and Thoreau are very close to one another. Just as easy to move all of the kids in Dunn Loring to Kilmer and they are closer to Marshall. there are no Madison bound kids that are close to Marshall.

Not going to happen. Thoreau is almost in Dunn Loring (the closest neighborhood is Dunn Loring Woods). Would you have kids who live a few blocks from Thoreau go to Kilmer instead? The Vienna middle schools will just continue to be split feeders when they don't need to be.

Actually, Stonewall Manor is probably the closest to Thoreau than Dunn Loring Woods.

Proximity is not always an indicator as to which school a neighbohood feeds into. For examples, all the apartment/condo buildings, except 1, surrounding the Dunn Loring metro feed into Shervewood, even though Stenwood is less than 1/4 of a mile away. Stenwood just doesn't have the space to handle the amount of kids that live in the apartment/condo buildings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live near Wolftrap and are zoned for Kilmer - Madison. We loved the neighborhood and didn't know about the split when we purchased the house. I'm not worried about it. The kids in the neighborhood are all close and who knows who they will be friends with in a few years anyway. We have heard people zoned for Marshall talk about possibly pupil placing later for AP and vice versa for IB. It's impossible to predict where all of their friends will end up.

The analysis isn't the same if your kids attend elementary school in the area before going to Kilmer and then Madison. If your child has 60+ kids they know from elementary school, then most of those same kids will be continuing on to Madison after Kilmer. Not a social problem.

If your child is new to the area going into Kilmer, and then is part of the 10% that goes on to Madison, there is a very real likelihood that your child will know no one or almost no one going over to Madison. That's the difference.

Easy to solve split feeder problem if the Kilmer boundaries became the Marshall boundaries and the Thoreau boundaries became the Madison boundaries. But then some Town kids might have to go to Marshall (gasp).

Kilmer and Thoreau are very close to one another. Just as easy to move all of the kids in Dunn Loring to Kilmer and they are closer to Marshall. there are no Madison bound kids that are close to Marshall.

Not going to happen. Thoreau is almost in Dunn Loring (the closest neighborhood is Dunn Loring Woods). Would you have kids who live a few blocks from Thoreau go to Kilmer instead? The Vienna middle schools will just continue to be split feeders when they don't need to be.

Actually, Stonewall Manor is probably the closest to Thoreau than Dunn Loring Woods.

Proximity is not always an indicator as to which school a neighbohood feeds into. For examples, all the apartment/condo buildings, except 1, surrounding the Dunn Loring metro feed into Shervewood, even though Stenwood is less than 1/4 of a mile away. Stenwood just doesn't have the space to handle the amount of kids that live in the apartment/condo buildings.

Point taken re Stonewall Manor, although DLW is very close as well.

In any event, people at Kilmer and Thoreau complain a lot about the split feeder patterns that send a very small percentage of Kilmer students to Madison and a very small percentage of Thoreau students to Marshall. Without a doubt, the easiest way to fix that is to align Madison's boundaries with Thoreau's, and Marshall's boundaries with Kilmer's. You can't do the opposite because both Kilmer and Thoreau are located within the Marshall district.

Otherwise, you end up just changing the current Kilmer and Thoreau boundaries to align the feeders, and there's no particular logic to adjusting them so that all Town students attend Thoreau and Madison. Neither Thoreau nor Madison is located within the Town of Vienna, and Town residents have no special right to dictate school boundaries.

[Anonymous]

They don't, however town residents pay both Town of Vienna taxes and full Fairfax County taxes and yet they have their own police, community center, and roads. Between these separate payments and the fact that houses are very expensive in Vienna, Vienna is a cash cow for Fairfax County. As a town resident, I would be very upset if my kid was aligned to Marshall which is not anywhere near my house and not affiliated with the town. I think Fairfax County would be stupid to move town kids out of Madison's boundary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not *less competitive* just with similar size schools. Marshall was one of the smallest in Liberty District before they were moved to Capitol. Madison, on the other hand, beginning this fall is in Concorde w/ Oakton, Cville, Chantilly and Westfield.

The district with the smaller schools was decidedly less competitive, both because most of the schools in that district were smaller but also because they had more students who have after-school jobs and fewer students who play sports (Stuart, Lee, Falls Church, Edison, Wakefield).

The placements are getting shuffled around again soon, and Marshall will have to play tougher competition again, at least in the regional competition.

Marshall is in the newly formed National District (with Stuart, Lee, Falls Church, Edison, TJ, Wakefield) for the next two years at least. Marshall has been winning lots of district titles, and would likely not want to move up to a district with more competitive, larger schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They don't, however town residents pay both Town of Vienna taxes and full Fairfax County taxes and yet they have their own police, community center, and roads. Between these separate payments and the fact that houses are very expensive in Vienna, Vienna is a cash cow for Fairfax County. As a town resident, I would be very upset if my kid was aligned to Marshall which is not anywhere near my house and not affiliated with the town. I think Fairfax County would be stupid to move town kids out of Madison's boundary.

There are areas in 22182 zoned for Marshall that are considerably further from Marshall than areas in the Town of Vienna (NE) that are zoned for Madison. So there is no reason why part of the Town couldn't be reassigned to Marshall in return for moving part of the county to Madison, other than people in the Town insisting they should all go to Madison, even though Madison is not in the Town, it is not operate by the Town, and part of the town went to Oakton years ago.

But, I don't expect this to happen, as FCPS is now planning to expand Madison and turn it into a much bigger school, while Thoreau may well end up a three-way split feeder to Oakton, Madison and Marshall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not *less competitive* just with similar size schools. Marshall was one of the smallest in Liberty District before they were moved to Capitol. Madison, on the other hand, beginning this fall is in Concorde w/ Oakton, Cville, Chantilly and Westfield.

The district with the smaller schools was decidedly less competitive, both because most of the schools in that district were smaller but also because they had more students who have after-school jobs and fewer students who play sports (Stuart, Lee, Falls Church, Edison, Wakefield).

The placements are getting shuffled around again soon, and Marshall will have to play tougher competition again, at least in the regional competition.

Marshall is in the newly formed National District (with Stuart, Lee, Falls Church, Edison, TJ, Wakefield) for the next two years at least. Marshall has been winning lots of district titles, and would likely not want to move up to a district with more competitive, larger schools.

They are going to be allowed to play in the National District ("District 5") for the next two years against the weaker teams, but at the same time they are being moved up from Class 5 to Class 6 (Region D) for regional purposes. Not sure how that works out in practice - they may win district titles in some sports and then get butchered in regional competition. Either way with so many more kids than they had 10 years ago they will be more competitive in major sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They don't, however town residents pay both Town of Vienna taxes and full Fairfax County taxes and yet they have their own police, community center, and roads. Between these separate payments and the fact that houses are very expensive in Vienna, Vienna is a cash cow for Fairfax County. As a town resident, I would be very upset if my kid was aligned to Marshall which is not anywhere near my house and not affiliated with the town. I think Fairfax County would be stupid to move town kids out of Madison's boundary.

I am really confused by this. We lived in ToV for 8 years and paid the extra taxes -- we basically got trash pickup and a discounted rate on Vienna Community Center classes and rentals, and that's it. The Town taxes go to the town government, not Fairfax County - same with the Vienna meals tax. Fairfax is not charging Vienna residents extra; Vienna residents have their own government to fund and run. I now live in Vienna just outside the town boundaries, and we have to schedule and pay for our own trash pickup, pay extra for community center classes and use at the Community Center on Park Street, and the Vienna police do not respond to our address (Fairfax police do). Our just-out-of-town house also cost 150% of what our in-town house did, so that's kind of a BS argument - housing prices have more to do with size, age, and walkability than they do to the town borders. A number of people I know deliberately moved just out of town to avoid the additional taxes, so not everyone is itching for the chance to pay more for a 22180 ZIP code. And Madison High School is not actually in Town of Vienna - it's certainly closer, but it's outside the Town border.

[Anonymous]

I think maybe PP was partly saying that the Town residents pay Vienna taxes and Ffx Cnty taxes... so Fairfax County is getting a good deal b/c the county doesn't have to provide police services to Vienna (proper) and yet the county gets their taxes. Of course, the county IS providing schools, roads and other things that town of Vienna residents use. But, the idea would be that the residents in the town of Vienna cost the county a little less b/c some services are being provided by the town of Vienna (which the residents pay for through additional taxes).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think maybe PP was partly saying that the Town residents pay Vienna taxes and Ffx Cnty taxes... so Fairfax County is getting a good deal b/c the county doesn't have to provide police services to Vienna (proper) and yet the county gets their taxes. Of course, the county IS providing schools, roads and other things that town of Vienna residents use. But, the idea would be that the residents in the town of Vienna cost the county a little less b/c some services are being provided by the town of Vienna (which the residents pay for through additional taxes).

The town pays for most of its own roads. The rest are funded by the state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think maybe PP was partly saying that the Town residents pay Vienna taxes and Ffx Cnty taxes... so Fairfax County is getting a good deal b/c the county doesn't have to provide police services to Vienna (proper) and yet the county gets their taxes. Of course, the county IS providing schools, roads and other things that town of Vienna residents use. But, the idea would be that the residents in the town of Vienna cost the county a little less b/c some services are being provided by the town of Vienna (which the residents pay for through additional taxes).

So, in return, FCPS should defer to the wishes of certain ToV residents when it comes to school boundaries? I mean, one thing really has nothing to do with the other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They don't, however town residents pay both Town of Vienna taxes and full Fairfax County taxes and yet they have their own police, community center, and roads. Between these separate payments and the fact that houses are very expensive in Vienna, Vienna is a cash cow for Fairfax County. As a town resident, I would be very upset if my kid was aligned to Marshall which is not anywhere near my house and not affiliated with the town. I think Fairfax County would be stupid to move town kids out of Madison's boundary.

I am really confused by this. We lived in ToV for 8 years and paid the extra taxes -- we basically got trash pickup and a discounted rate on Vienna Community Center classes and rentals, and that's it. The Town taxes go to the town government, not Fairfax County - same with the Vienna meals tax. Fairfax is not charging Vienna residents extra; Vienna residents have their own government to fund and run. I now live in Vienna just outside the town boundaries, and we have to schedule and pay for our own trash pickup, pay extra for community center classes and use at the Community Center on Park Street, and the Vienna police do not respond to our address (Fairfax police do). Our just-out-of-town house also cost 150% of what our in-town house did, so that's kind of a BS argument - housing prices have more to do with size, age, and walkability than they do to the town borders. A number of people I know deliberately moved just out of town to avoid the additional taxes, so not everyone is itching for the chance to pay more for a 22180 ZIP code. And Madison High School is not actually in Town of Vienna - it's certainly closer, but it's outside the Town border.

The town funds the entire community center. No Fairfax County taxes went into paying for it originally or for its recent upgrade. People outside the town can use it, but they didn't pay taxes to build it. Town taxes go to much more than just discounts on taxes and trash. They also pay for water and sewer upgrades. The county benefits by not having to provide these services in the town while still collecting full taxes. Madison is adjacent to the town border.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous

Parts of Vienna near Wolf Trap (the performing arts center, not the elementary school) are zoned for Longfellow MS/McLean HS or Cooper MS/Langley HS, both excellent as well. McLean is quite similar to Madison, though with less emphasis on sports and more emphasis on student publications and performing arts.

Not really a lot of private schools in Vienna - closest is probably Flint Hill in Oakton.

NP here. Disagree that Madison is just a jock school. This was the case under the old principal, but is changing. Both schools have good bands and orchestras.

For K-8, there is also Green Hedges School, a private in Vienna.

[Anonymous]

OP, you need to be aware also that Marshall is an IB school, while Madison is AP-based. Not sure if that would make a difference to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anonymous

Parts of Vienna near Wolf Trap (the performing arts center, not the elementary school) are zoned for Longfellow MS/McLean HS or Cooper MS/Langley HS, both excellent as well. McLean is quite similar to Madison, though with less emphasis on sports and more emphasis on student publications and performing arts.

Not really a lot of private schools in Vienna - closest is probably Flint Hill in Oakton.

NP here. Disagree that Madison is just a jock school. This was the case under the old principal, but is changing. Both schools have good bands and orchestras.

For K-8, there is also Green Hedges School, a private in Vienna.

Didn't say that Madison was "just a jock school," but great to hear that the current principal (he came from Thoreau, right?) is changing the culture to be more inclusive.