Toddler not pointing

[Anonymous]

There is a family history of Aspergers, and both DH and I had traits as kids (obsessive interests, poor social skills, studying toys rather than playing with them) that would probably raise red flags now. I don't think the words are echolalia- they're things like "DaDa read" while handing DH a book, saying moo moo when seeing a cow, saying water to ask for a drink, etc. Answers yes and no questions appropriately. Good imaginary play with feeding stuffed animals and pretending to talk on the phone and that kind of thing. Does some other gestures like waving and clapping.

I'm actually not sure the whole hand pointing counts as joint attention- it's always to label something like sees a dog, reaches out with hand saying "goggy."

Will bring me things to show me, but yeah the lack of pointing to show does seem glaring. If ped says wait and see, should I still push for an evaluation? I've raised concern before about lack of interest in peekaboo and eye contact seeming different than other babies', but ped said the baby seemed very social during the exam and that I was probably just overanxious.

[Anonymous]

Also, can point with a single finger, but only up close to label pictures in books.

[Anonymous]

OP -- The picture you're painting is now changing. If this is really about hand v finger pointing, you are looking for a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a family history of Aspergers, and both DH and I had traits as kids (obsessive interests, poor social skills, studying toys rather than playing with them) that would probably raise red flags now. I don't think the words are echolalia- they're things like "DaDa read" while handing DH a book, saying moo moo when seeing a cow, saying water to ask for a drink, etc. Answers yes and no questions appropriately. Good imaginary play with feeding stuffed animals and pretending to talk on the phone and that kind of thing. Does some other gestures like waving and clapping.

I'm actually not sure the whole hand pointing counts as joint attention- it's always to label something like sees a dog, reaches out with hand saying "goggy."

Will bring me things to show me, but yeah the lack of pointing to show does seem glaring. If ped says wait and see, should I still push for an evaluation? I've raised concern before about lack of interest in peekaboo and eye contact seeming different than other babies', but ped said the baby seemed very social during the exam and that I was probably just overanxious.

Yes, call Early Intervention. ASAP. Lack of pointing for joint attention is a serious red flag. There might be others you missed because you aren't trained to look for them.
FYI Sounds just like DS with mild autism - He had an impressive vocabulary as a toddler. Early therapy is critical for good outcomes. Trust your gut. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

I think it's even more complicated based on what you said in your latest post, OP. The talking you describe doesn't sound like echolalia, and a part of me thinks that you are expecting too much from pointing and joint attention. My second kid is 17 months and points regularly (and we have no concerns about his development), but if I were to analyze what he's doing exactly when he's pointing, I'd say he's also kind of labeling like you describe. He'll also point excitedly at a dog and say "doggie, doggie!" He absolutely engages in joint attention with us, but I'm not sure I'd say it's easy to see all or even most pointing of his as clearly trying to show us something. I mean, if I don't respond immediately to acknowledge seeing the dog, there are times he'd look to me and point more emphatically, but I don't immediately see that in my mind as I'm thinking about him doing it.

On the other hand, the fact that you've had concerns about eye contact, that there was a lack of interest in peekaboo, and that there's a family history of autism makes me feel there's more chance it could be autism. However, you also seem to suggest that you and DH had symptoms that could have been flagged as possible autism but that neither of you feel you have autism.

So, there's also a good chance that your kid will turn out to be much like one or both of you, and it's going to be really, really hard to identify at a young age whether he actually has autism or whether he's going to be like you and have some red flags but not what will be defined as autism. From this perspective, I feel a little like -- who really cares? Just focus on helping him with his development the most you can! Whether or not he'll have autism is sort of irrelevant, as much as I understand why you'd want to know. If he's not pointing, then if there's a way to intervene and see if he's eligible for Early Intervention or a specialist who can help with some therapy that might help him do this more, then do it! It's not going to be bad for him to be encouraged to do more joint attention activities and learn to point, no matter what. Talk to your ped and lay out everything, including your history and why you are concerned about this. But also be open to taking things slowly and not jumping too far into things focused on a diagnosis. Focus on development, not on what it means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, call Early Intervention. ASAP. Lack of pointing for joint attention is a serious red flag. There might be others you missed because you aren't trained to look for them.
FYI Sounds just like DS with mild autism - He had an impressive vocabulary as a toddler. Early therapy is critical for good outcomes. Trust your gut. Good luck.

New poster. How do you know when it's pointing for joint attention/to show you something, vs just expressing their own interest/excitement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a family history of Aspergers, and both DH and I had traits as kids (obsessive interests, poor social skills, studying toys rather than playing with them) that would probably raise red flags now. I don't think the words are echolalia- they're things like "DaDa read" while handing DH a book, saying moo moo when seeing a cow, saying water to ask for a drink, etc. Answers yes and no questions appropriately. Good imaginary play with feeding stuffed animals and pretending to talk on the phone and that kind of thing. Does some other gestures like waving and clapping.

I'm actually not sure the whole hand pointing counts as joint attention- it's always to label something like sees a dog, reaches out with hand saying "goggy."

Will bring me things to show me, but yeah the lack of pointing to show does seem glaring. If ped says wait and see, should I still push for an evaluation? I've raised concern before about lack of interest in peekaboo and eye contact seeming different than other babies', but ped said the baby seemed very social during the exam and that I was probably just overanxious.

Yes, call Early Intervention. ASAP. Lack of pointing for joint attention is a serious red flag. There might be others you missed because you aren't trained to look for them.
FYI Sounds just like DS with mild autism - He had an impressive vocabulary as a toddler. Early therapy is critical for good outcomes. Trust your gut. Good luck.

No such thing as mild autism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, call Early Intervention. ASAP. Lack of pointing for joint attention is a serious red flag. There might be others you missed because you aren't trained to look for them.
FYI Sounds just like DS with mild autism - He had an impressive vocabulary as a toddler. Early therapy is critical for good outcomes. Trust your gut. Good luck.

New poster. How do you know when it's pointing for joint attention/to show you something, vs just expressing their own interest/excitement?

They point at it and look at you. Like, they hear an airplane, point up at it, look at you and say 'plane!' They're getting your attention by pointing AND looking at you. If they just are like 'plane!' without paying you any mind, it's not joint attention. That's sort of a simplification, but that's the gist of it.

If you're worried, definitely call early intervention people and just ask them. They usually will have like a 5 question preview over the phone to even see if your kid needs a screening. You can describe to them what's up and they can recommend a screening if it's needed.

[Anonymous]

Pointing at something and labeling is the start of joint attention. The gesture of pointing is to show you something which is what joint attention is or well the early stages of it. My ex husband is a developmental pediatrician. Our daughter was a late pointer. My husband considers it the single most important milestone for determining delays in communication. Our daughter pointed at 18 months and had a language delay but with speech therapy to work on the non verbal and joint attention, she was able to catch up by kindergarten.

It is a big deal and should never ever be ignor d. Please contact your counties EI services for an evaluation.

(Sorry for any errors- typing on a phone)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pointing at something and labeling is the start of joint attention. The gesture of pointing is to show you something which is what joint attention is or well the early stages of it. My ex husband is a developmental pediatrician. Our daughter was a late pointer. My husband considers it the single most important milestone for determining delays in communication. Our daughter pointed at 18 months and had a language delay but with speech therapy to work on the non verbal and joint attention, she was able to catch up by kindergarten.

It is a big deal and should never ever be ignor d. Please contact your counties EI services for an evaluation.

(Sorry for any errors- typing on a phone)

OP- thank you, good to get an expert take. I'm going to call EI tomorrow and get a screening set up- if it's nothing then great, but if we can benefit from therapy then I want to get it started asap while the brain is very young and flexible.

[Anonymous]

Honestly OP your post rings of anxiety and not anything wrong with your kid. Go ahead and do the evaluation if you feel you need to for your peace of mind. But you're going to drive yourself nuts if you are going to try to "test" your child for joint attention based on what you read on the internet. If your child is verbal, social, interactive with people, and progressing, he is likely fine. There's nothing magic about pointing specifically with a finger or playing peekaboo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly OP your post rings of anxiety and not anything wrong with your kid. Go ahead and do the evaluation if you feel you need to for your peace of mind. But you're going to drive yourself nuts if you are going to try to "test" your child for joint attention based on what you read on the internet. If your child is verbal, social, interactive with people, and progressing, he is likely fine. There's nothing magic about pointing specifically with a finger or playing peekaboo.

I'm going to assume your child met all milestones on time or ahead of time. You have no idea what it's like to have a child that isn't doing what they're supposed to developmentally. Go ahead and call the mom paranoid or anxiety ridden all you want. But until you can walk in her shoes- shut up!

Get the evaluation. Early intervention was life changing for my late pointing and late talking child. No ASDbut a communication delay which was remedied by early intervention speech services. It's your child and you would move heaven and earth for your child. Don't listen to people who can never imagine the worry a mom goes through when their child doesn't meet milestones.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No such thing as mild autism.

Oh, STFU. Autism can be mild or severe or somewhere on the SPECTRUM. That's why they call it a spectrum. OP, and for some others--there is no Aspergers--there's just autism.

OP, you can call EI, but your kid might not actually qualify for services b/c they need to be a certain percentage delayed. That's why many kids who are "high functioning" autistic are often missed for diagnosis b/c they don't appear obviously delayed. Make an appointment and Children's and KKI with a developmental pediatrician and take the first available appointment if you are truly concerned.

Don't freak out. It will be okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly OP your post rings of anxiety and not anything wrong with your kid. Go ahead and do the evaluation if you feel you need to for your peace of mind. But you're going to drive yourself nuts if you are going to try to "test" your child for joint attention based on what you read on the internet. If your child is verbal, social, interactive with people, and progressing, he is likely fine. There's nothing magic about pointing specifically with a finger or playing peekaboo.

I'm going to assume your child met all milestones on time or ahead of time. You have no idea what it's like to have a child that isn't doing what they're supposed to developmentally. Go ahead and call the mom paranoid or anxiety ridden all you want. But until you can walk in her shoes- shut up!

Get the evaluation. Early intervention was life changing for my late pointing and late talking child. No ASDbut a communication delay which was remedied by early intervention speech services. It's your child and you would move heaven and earth for your child. Don't listen to people who can never imagine the worry a mom goes through when their child doesn't meet milestones.

I do have a child with delays, actually. I *also* had anxiety about autism symptoms based on the internet that were completely in my head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly OP your post rings of anxiety and not anything wrong with your kid. Go ahead and do the evaluation if you feel you need to for your peace of mind. But you're going to drive yourself nuts if you are going to try to "test" your child for joint attention based on what you read on the internet. If your child is verbal, social, interactive with people, and progressing, he is likely fine. There's nothing magic about pointing specifically with a finger or playing peekaboo.

I'm going to assume your child met all milestones on time or ahead of time. You have no idea what it's like to have a child that isn't doing what they're supposed to developmentally. Go ahead and call the mom paranoid or anxiety ridden all you want. But until you can walk in her shoes- shut up!

Get the evaluation. Early intervention was life changing for my late pointing and late talking child. No ASDbut a communication delay which was remedied by early intervention speech services. It's your child and you would move heaven and earth for your child. Don't listen to people who can never imagine the worry a mom goes through when their child doesn't meet milestones.

I do have a child with delays, actually. I *also* had anxiety about autism symptoms based on the internet that were completely in my head.

Well then you more than anyone should STFU. You more than anyone should understand delays are real and that with early intervention they can catch up. I've never met a mom of a delayed child that would ever tell another mom she's just being anxious and to not to listen to her gut and have her child evaluated. Any mom with a delayed child would know the earlier the better.