disappointed with IEP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a difference between an NT child who may have some social awkwardness and an ASD child who can't function with the social aspects of the school day including small group work, negotiating hallways, cafeterias, greeting teachers and classmates, playing in groups with other children at recess.

It is up to the IEP team to determine the extent of the challenge and to work toward mitigating the impact in a school setting. This is absolutely the school's job under IDEA. Please don't put this all on the parent. It sounds like OP is doing all s/he can.

But that's the thing. It's not the school's job to mitigate all of the impact and catch the child up to the level of a neurotypical peer. The government has decided that taxpayer-funded school services are for children who are generally in the area of the lowest ~7th percentile. If a child is above this level but not where the parent wishes them to be, it's on them to supplement with private services. There just isn't money for everyone, so the government sets the limits that the school has to then enforce. It's not personal. Nothing in government ever is.

The people who it is personal for, the family, have to do what they think their child needs. That's how it's always been. They just can't rely on government-funded services if they don't meet the requirements.

I've never seen this percentage cited anywhere, but don't disagree that it could be the case. What are you basing this on PP? And what 'government' are you referring to?

I've also never seen a percentage quoted in the law but our school said below 25% was necessary to qualify. The truth is that a variety of data should be used to evaluate kids and no one test or measurement should be used. Using a 7% standard would be in violation of the IDEA and ADA laws.

Percentile, not percent. Very different measurements.

[Anonymous]

Dear OP-

I've been in your shoes. The school drags it's feet and does not meet the child's needs. So your child doesn't fall through the cracks, you seek private therapies which work and your child makes improvement. The school reacts by either threatening to end the IEP or shrink services.

The reality is that MCPS is severely broken when it comes to servicing children with disabilities. To decide what direction to go with your child's education, you should carefully weigh the expenses and what you can afford in the longterm - including education and help for your child pass high school graduation.

If you can afford private school and are tired of fighting with Farmland, carefully research private schools that can meet your child's needs. Be upfront with the school for what you are looking for and ask how they can implement. Visit the school to see the classroom environment. Maybe even ask your private therapists if they know of any schools that would be a good fit.

If you can't afford the private school option, get what you can get from MCPS but continue to privately supplement. Hire an advocate to speak on your behalf at the IEP meetings. Schools tend to listen better to a trained advocate. An advocate would use data like the private therapy hours, recommendations from the therapists for school support, and school data that the school may not be bringing into the meeting (ie. work samples, teacher emails when problems occurred, etc.).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a difference between an NT child who may have some social awkwardness and an ASD child who can't function with the social aspects of the school day including small group work, negotiating hallways, cafeterias, greeting teachers and classmates, playing in groups with other children at recess.

It is up to the IEP team to determine the extent of the challenge and to work toward mitigating the impact in a school setting. This is absolutely the school's job under IDEA. Please don't put this all on the parent. It sounds like OP is doing all s/he can.

But that's the thing. It's not the school's job to mitigate all of the impact and catch the child up to the level of a neurotypical peer. The government has decided that taxpayer-funded school services are for children who are generally in the area of the lowest ~7th percentile. If a child is above this level but not where the parent wishes them to be, it's on them to supplement with private services. There just isn't money for everyone, so the government sets the limits that the school has to then enforce. It's not personal. Nothing in government ever is.

The people who it is personal for, the family, have to do what they think their child needs. That's how it's always been. They just can't rely on government-funded services if they don't meet the requirements.

I've never seen this percentage cited anywhere, but don't disagree that it could be the case. What are you basing this on PP? And what 'government' are you referring to?

I've also never seen a percentage quoted in the law but our school said below 25% was necessary to qualify. The truth is that a variety of data should be used to evaluate kids and no one test or measurement should be used. Using a 7% standard would be in violation of the IDEA and ADA laws.

Percentile, not percent. Very different measurements.

Same point - using a percentile as a cut off standard is a violation of the IDEA and ADA.

[Anonymous]

Everyone, please stop attacking the OP. School teams say unkind and provocative things like that all the time to try to dissuade parents from pursuing services. We have no idea whether her child needs the services or not.

OP, one thing is that few SLPs are trained in pragmatic speech beyond a certain basic level so even if your child is lacking terribly in this realm she may not be qualified to help anyway. MCPS does not provide ABA-type services unless your child is in a self-contained program and you're right they won't let your private provider come and help on a regular basis.

One option is for your ABA provider to come observe your child at school a few times and then create a program that can be used outside of school. The other option is private and the private ABA therapist working with your child at school. I know several families that did this and they were happy with the this as they had more control over the therapist and could target deficits they were seeing.

Also, ABA is not really used for higher level social skills so it sounds like your child may be beyond this. You should try a social thinking group or maybe Ivymount's Unstuck and On Target program on weekends.

[Anonymous]

Third option is to go to a school like Auburn that provides social skills integrated into the curriculum.

[Anonymous]

I just read the first post but before I reply you need to ask Jeff to take out the name of the elementary school and Bethesda. It is way too easy to identify you and your family with the info in the post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a difference between an NT child who may have some social awkwardness and an ASD child who can't function with the social aspects of the school day including small group work, negotiating hallways, cafeterias, greeting teachers and classmates, playing in groups with other children at recess.

It is up to the IEP team to determine the extent of the challenge and to work toward mitigating the impact in a school setting. This is absolutely the school's job under IDEA. Please don't put this all on the parent. It sounds like OP is doing all s/he can.

But that's the thing. It's not the school's job to mitigate all of the impact and catch the child up to the level of a neurotypical peer. The government has decided that taxpayer-funded school services are for children who are generally in the area of the lowest ~7th percentile. If a child is above this level but not where the parent wishes them to be, it's on them to supplement with private services. There just isn't money for everyone, so the government sets the limits that the school has to then enforce. It's not personal. Nothing in government ever is.

The people who it is personal for, the family, have to do what they think their child needs. That's how it's always been. They just can't rely on government-funded services if they don't meet the requirements.

I've never seen this percentage cited anywhere, but don't disagree that it could be the case. What are you basing this on PP? And what 'government' are you referring to?

I'm basing it on working local school systems. I was being general with government-funds come from both state and federal areas and are limited in nature (because taxpayers obviously have a variety of needs where they want their money distributed, such as roads, fire/EMS, other public services...), which requires limiting services to those who truly need it. 7th percentile is 1.5 standard deviations below the mean, which is a common cutoff in this area. Some districts use 2 standard deviations, which is the 3rd percentile. Very few use 1 below the mean (~16th percentile). It's just a numbers game. Just like how you can make too much money to qualify for scholarships/grants/housing assistance, etc, but not make enough money to be able to comfortably do the things you want to do. It's not personal, and it's really, really hard to be in that in-between area.

The disclaimer here is that school teams have some discretion and obviously no two children are the same, as are no two teachers and school situations. No test score is sacred and I'm speaking in generalities, but what the SLP was reported as saying, while inappropriate and not tactful, makes me think that this is the situation for this child. Doing generally well and able to access the curriculum in the school, but not at the level of his NT peers where his parents would obviously like him to be.

I still don't think that's true. I just looked through my child's private neuropsych. There's no one test for autism in general where he scored below 7th percentile. One test was the social responsiveness scale, where higher numbers indicate a problem. Another test was for theory of mind, where he was in the 11-25 percentile. No problem getting social skills services. Eligibility was based on looking at the whole picture, including classroom functioning, not just individual test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I just read the first post but before I reply you need to ask Jeff to take out the name of the elementary school and Bethesda. It is way too easy to identify you and your family with the info in the post.

I posted earlier on this thread and mentioned the name of the school my children attend, and think it's very useful to know which schools are doing what. School systems cannot in practice provide the same services in all schools, since individual principals and staff each bring their own opinions to the table, and this has created school atmospheres that are more or less welcoming to special needs students and their families. So on the contrary, I encourage people to name schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a difference between an NT child who may have some social awkwardness and an ASD child who can't function with the social aspects of the school day including small group work, negotiating hallways, cafeterias, greeting teachers and classmates, playing in groups with other children at recess.

It is up to the IEP team to determine the extent of the challenge and to work toward mitigating the impact in a school setting. This is absolutely the school's job under IDEA. Please don't put this all on the parent. It sounds like OP is doing all s/he can.

But that's the thing. It's not the school's job to mitigate all of the impact and catch the child up to the level of a neurotypical peer. The government has decided that taxpayer-funded school services are for children who are generally in the area of the lowest ~7th percentile. If a child is above this level but not where the parent wishes them to be, it's on them to supplement with private services. There just isn't money for everyone, so the government sets the limits that the school has to then enforce. It's not personal. Nothing in government ever is.

The people who it is personal for, the family, have to do what they think their child needs. That's how it's always been. They just can't rely on government-funded services if they don't meet the requirements.

Yes, this exactly. Thank you for explaining this so well. Private services wouldn't exist if it were a school's responsibility to serve everyone. When the you ask the school for services, they are deciding whether the school should decide to make taxpayers responsible for paying for the child's treatment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really understand your frustration. The school personnel may feel frustrated as well. The SLP is given guidelines to follow by the county to identify students who should receive service at taxpayer expense. Students who have a disability (rather than disorder) that has an educational impact and that requires the specialized skill of the SLP (and no one else can reasonable do it) qualify. There has to be a cut off somewhere. I am an SLP and my own daughter did not qualify for speech services in the county despite falling at the first percentile on a standardized articulation measure. I see both sides. Also, in terms of social skills, that typically gets shifted to counseling because the SLP is limited to dealing with pragmatic language, but not social skills. I hear you, but I also understand the other side (why do there have to be sides?). I am very sorry to hear that you feel you were spoken to with disrespect. That is a shame.

I've heard this quoted at IEP meetings for my child. He was diagnosed privately with a Specific Learning Disability in Reading but because the Reading Specialist couldn't get services for her child, my child by all means didn't qualify for services. Not exactly a legal argument but MCPS employees are great for discriminating against kids because of their own biases.

I'm not using this anecdote as a means of making a legal argument. I was simply commiserating withthe OP. Your leap to this suggesting that MCPS employees discriminate against kids because of their own biases is ridiculous. In fact, I'd love to go against the guidelines and pad my caseload so I can just work in one school instead of traveling between multiple schools and lugging my supplies around town all day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a difference between an NT child who may have some social awkwardness and an ASD child who can't function with the social aspects of the school day including small group work, negotiating hallways, cafeterias, greeting teachers and classmates, playing in groups with other children at recess.

It is up to the IEP team to determine the extent of the challenge and to work toward mitigating the impact in a school setting. This is absolutely the school's job under IDEA. Please don't put this all on the parent. It sounds like OP is doing all s/he can.

But that's the thing. It's not the school's job to mitigate all of the impact and catch the child up to the level of a neurotypical peer. The government has decided that taxpayer-funded school services are for children who are generally in the area of the lowest ~7th percentile. If a child is above this level but not where the parent wishes them to be, it's on them to supplement with private services. There just isn't money for everyone, so the government sets the limits that the school has to then enforce. It's not personal. Nothing in government ever is.

The people who it is personal for, the family, have to do what they think their child needs. That's how it's always been. They just can't rely on government-funded services if they don't meet the requirements.

I've never seen this percentage cited anywhere, but don't disagree that it could be the case. What are you basing this on PP? And what 'government' are you referring to?

I've also never seen a percentage quoted in the law but our school said below 25% was necessary to qualify. The truth is that a variety of data should be used to evaluate kids and no one test or measurement should be used. Using a 7% standard would be in violation of the IDEA and ADA laws.

In MCPS, no single source of data can be used. However, for standardized measures, the 90% confidence interval must not overlap with the average (85-115). The other measure (observations, language samples, other tests, informal measures) can be used to qualify even if the standardized measures do not show a need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a difference between an NT child who may have some social awkwardness and an ASD child who can't function with the social aspects of the school day including small group work, negotiating hallways, cafeterias, greeting teachers and classmates, playing in groups with other children at recess.

It is up to the IEP team to determine the extent of the challenge and to work toward mitigating the impact in a school setting. This is absolutely the school's job under IDEA. Please don't put this all on the parent. It sounds like OP is doing all s/he can.

But that's the thing. It's not the school's job to mitigate all of the impact and catch the child up to the level of a neurotypical peer. The government has decided that taxpayer-funded school services are for children who are generally in the area of the lowest ~7th percentile. If a child is above this level but not where the parent wishes them to be, it's on them to supplement with private services. There just isn't money for everyone, so the government sets the limits that the school has to then enforce. It's not personal. Nothing in government ever is.

The people who it is personal for, the family, have to do what they think their child needs. That's how it's always been. They just can't rely on government-funded services if they don't meet the requirements.

I've never seen this percentage cited anywhere, but don't disagree that it could be the case. What are you basing this on PP? And what 'government' are you referring to?

I've also never seen a percentage quoted in the law but our school said below 25% was necessary to qualify. The truth is that a variety of data should be used to evaluate kids and no one test or measurement should be used. Using a 7% standard would be in violation of the IDEA and ADA laws.

In MCPS, no single source of data can be used. However, for standardized measures, the 90% confidence interval must not overlap with the average (85-115). The other measure (observations, language samples, other tests, informal measures) can be used to qualify even if the standardized measures do not show a need.

File a State Complaint letter. Sounds like the school may not be compliant with Federal law.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First, I'm sorry. I've been in this position too. It is so frustrating. I feel like our kids with "mild" ASDs are caught in a catch 22. Schools put interventions in place. The child does well with intervention. Then, the school takes away interventions because the child is doing well. BUT... the child does well WITH the intervention, not without it.

My child had to completely hit bottom in terms of acting out and work refusal before MCPS brought in instructional specialists and the Autism Unit. We are still in this process. It has sucked for our family and my child. It has been devastating for DC's self-esteem and ability to feel comfortable and like school.

OP here. Thanks a lot for your comment. The situation you described is exactly the one i am trying to avoid. My son mastered the academics of kinder garden. He can distinguish shapes and all. But he is frustrated not understanding social dynamics and being left out. I just talked to the educational consultant and feel even more frustrated. She was explaining to me how the system does not see the need for help. Just do not want my child be crashed by the system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really understand your frustration. The school personnel may feel frustrated as well. The SLP is given guidelines to follow by the county to identify students who should receive service at taxpayer expense. Students who have a disability (rather than disorder) that has an educational impact and that requires the specialized skill of the SLP (and no one else can reasonable do it) qualify. There has to be a cut off somewhere. I am an SLP and my own daughter did not qualify for speech services in the county despite falling at the first percentile on a standardized articulation measure. I see both sides. Also, in terms of social skills, that typically gets shifted to counseling because the SLP is limited to dealing with pragmatic language, but not social skills. I hear you, but I also understand the other side (why do there have to be sides?). I am very sorry to hear that you feel you were spoken to with disrespect. That is a shame.

I've heard this quoted at IEP meetings for my child. He was diagnosed privately with a Specific Learning Disability in Reading but because the Reading Specialist couldn't get services for her child, my child by all means didn't qualify for services. Not exactly a legal argument but MCPS employees are great for discriminating against kids because of their own biases.

I'm not using this anecdote as a means of making a legal argument. I was simply commiserating withthe OP. Your leap to this suggesting that MCPS employees discriminate against kids because of their own biases is ridiculous. In fact, I'd love to go against the guidelines and pad my caseload so I can just work in one school instead of traveling between multiple schools and lugging my supplies around town all day.

OP here. Are you suggesting you represent children wit special needs at Farmland? I like your attitude. Is there a way to get in touch with you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone, please stop attacking the OP. School teams say unkind and provocative things like that all the time to try to dissuade parents from pursuing services. We have no idea whether her child needs the services or not.

OP, one thing is that few SLPs are trained in pragmatic speech beyond a certain basic level so even if your child is lacking terribly in this realm she may not be qualified to help anyway. MCPS does not provide ABA-type services unless your child is in a self-contained program and you're right they won't let your private provider come and help on a regular basis.

One option is for your ABA provider to come observe your child at school a few times and then create a program that can be used outside of school. The other option is private and the private ABA therapist working with your child at school. I know several families that did this and they were happy with the this as they had more control over the therapist and could target deficits they were seeing.

Also, ABA is not really used for higher level social skills so it sounds like your child may be beyond this. You should try a social thinking group or maybe Ivymount's Unstuck and On Target program on weekends.

Thank you for your kind note. We do go to social group with CLC which helped out a lot. We also do a lot of private therapies such as speech, OT and visual. I am setting ABA program right now at home. I am doing my part. What I am hoping to use ABA for is to correct behaviors such as invading personal space, putting objects in front of peer's faces, etc. Behaviors that would really turn someone away. Thanks a lot for the tip on Ivymount's Unstuck and On Target programs! I will check them out.