Lawrence University vs. Haverford vs. St. Olaf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oof, that out of pocket for Haverford would be brutal. I think it's better than the other two, but THAT much better? No. Unless she has her heart set on it, which it sounds like she does not, I'd take it off the table.

Of the other two, I went to a different SLAC in Wisconsin and am familiar with both of them; I know several graduates from each. I would pick St. Olaf -- better (ish) location -- it's relatively close to a major international airport, at least compared to Appleton. Does she have any interest in or experience with music? St. Olaf has a strong music program, so that might be worth considering too.

They're similar, and both good schools. Congratulations to her!

Yes, she loved Haverford but lucky for us, she loved Lawrence and St. Olaf equally. I guess I was just wondering, on the academic side of things, if there is a benefit to Haverford that Lawrence and St. Olaf could not provide.

She is very musical/theatrical but will not pursue them as an academic subject, though she'd like to stay involved in them.

[Anonymous]

What does she hope to do as a future career?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oof, that out of pocket for Haverford would be brutal. I think it's better than the other two, but THAT much better? No. Unless she has her heart set on it, which it sounds like she does not, I'd take it off the table.

Of the other two, I went to a different SLAC in Wisconsin and am familiar with both of them; I know several graduates from each. I would pick St. Olaf -- better (ish) location -- it's relatively close to a major international airport, at least compared to Appleton. Does she have any interest in or experience with music? St. Olaf has a strong music program, so that might be worth considering too.

They're similar, and both good schools. Congratulations to her!

Yes, she loved Haverford but lucky for us, she loved Lawrence and St. Olaf equally. I guess I was just wondering, on the academic side of things, if there is a benefit to Haverford that Lawrence and St. Olaf could not provide.

She is very musical/theatrical but will not pursue them as an academic subject, though she'd like to stay involved in them.

I don't think so, but name-brand-conscious DCUM will likely disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oof, that out of pocket for Haverford would be brutal. I think it's better than the other two, but THAT much better? No. Unless she has her heart set on it, which it sounds like she does not, I'd take it off the table.

Of the other two, I went to a different SLAC in Wisconsin and am familiar with both of them; I know several graduates from each. I would pick St. Olaf -- better (ish) location -- it's relatively close to a major international airport, at least compared to Appleton. Does she have any interest in or experience with music? St. Olaf has a strong music program, so that might be worth considering too.

They're similar, and both good schools. Congratulations to her!

Yes, she loved Haverford but lucky for us, she loved Lawrence and St. Olaf equally. I guess I was just wondering, on the academic side of things, if there is a benefit to Haverford that Lawrence and St. Olaf could not provide.

She is very musical/theatrical but will not pursue them as an academic subject, though she'd like to stay involved in them.

That's tricky. I'd pick St. Olaf, as I said, for location. Appleton is remote. Northfield is tiny, but a 45 minute drive from MSP. There will be internship and job opportunities available to her in MSP, which could be good for an econ student.

But I agree with a PP who said that it's not crazy to prefer Lawrence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oof, that out of pocket for Haverford would be brutal. I think it's better than the other two, but THAT much better? No. Unless she has her heart set on it, which it sounds like she does not, I'd take it off the table.

Of the other two, I went to a different SLAC in Wisconsin and am familiar with both of them; I know several graduates from each. I would pick St. Olaf -- better (ish) location -- it's relatively close to a major international airport, at least compared to Appleton. Does she have any interest in or experience with music? St. Olaf has a strong music program, so that might be worth considering too.

They're similar, and both good schools. Congratulations to her!

Yes, she loved Haverford but lucky for us, she loved Lawrence and St. Olaf equally. I guess I was just wondering, on the academic side of things, if there is a benefit to Haverford that Lawrence and St. Olaf could not provide.

She is very musical/theatrical but will not pursue them as an academic subject, though she'd like to stay involved in them.

It's an easier path to an I-bank or top-flight econ or management consultancy if she wants to do that for a couple of years between college and grad school. But as far as research opportunities? No. Peer group? Not significantly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oof, that out of pocket for Haverford would be brutal. I think it's better than the other two, but THAT much better? No. Unless she has her heart set on it, which it sounds like she does not, I'd take it off the table.

Of the other two, I went to a different SLAC in Wisconsin and am familiar with both of them; I know several graduates from each. I would pick St. Olaf -- better (ish) location -- it's relatively close to a major international airport, at least compared to Appleton. Does she have any interest in or experience with music? St. Olaf has a strong music program, so that might be worth considering too.

They're similar, and both good schools. Congratulations to her!

Yes, she loved Haverford but lucky for us, she loved Lawrence and St. Olaf equally. I guess I was just wondering, on the academic side of things, if there is a benefit to Haverford that Lawrence and St. Olaf could not provide.

She is very musical/theatrical but will not pursue them as an academic subject, though she'd like to stay involved in them.

It's an easier path to an I-bank or top-flight econ or management consultancy if she wants to do that for a couple of years between college and grad school. But as far as research opportunities? No. Peer group? Not significantly.

She's definitely not interested in Wall Street/banking/management consultancy/etc. - she'd be more interested in the public policy route (also considering a political science major or minor). She also would like to join the Peace Corps before going to grad school.

[Anonymous]

Appleton is not that remote. I have a child at Lawrence and the airport there has flights to Detroit, Chicago, Milwaukee, MSP, etc...pretty easy to get to. (Although definitely not as cheap).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oof, that out of pocket for Haverford would be brutal. I think it's better than the other two, but THAT much better? No. Unless she has her heart set on it, which it sounds like she does not, I'd take it off the table.

Of the other two, I went to a different SLAC in Wisconsin and am familiar with both of them; I know several graduates from each. I would pick St. Olaf -- better (ish) location -- it's relatively close to a major international airport, at least compared to Appleton. Does she have any interest in or experience with music? St. Olaf has a strong music program, so that might be worth considering too.

They're similar, and both good schools. Congratulations to her!

Yes, she loved Haverford but lucky for us, she loved Lawrence and St. Olaf equally. I guess I was just wondering, on the academic side of things, if there is a benefit to Haverford that Lawrence and St. Olaf could not provide.

She is very musical/theatrical but will not pursue them as an academic subject, though she'd like to stay involved in them.

It's an easier path to an I-bank or top-flight econ or management consultancy if she wants to do that for a couple of years between college and grad school. But as far as research opportunities? No. Peer group? Not significantly.

She's definitely not interested in Wall Street/banking/management consultancy/etc. - she'd be more interested in the public policy route (also considering a political science major or minor). She also would like to join the Peace Corps before going to grad school.

isn't she supposed to get a scholarship for a graduate program? i mean do people actually pay to get phds?

[Anonymous]

Following this as my DS also admitted to St Olaf with $20k per year scholarship and "better schools" that would cost us substantially more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oof, that out of pocket for Haverford would be brutal. I think it's better than the other two, but THAT much better? No. Unless she has her heart set on it, which it sounds like she does not, I'd take it off the table.

Of the other two, I went to a different SLAC in Wisconsin and am familiar with both of them; I know several graduates from each. I would pick St. Olaf -- better (ish) location -- it's relatively close to a major international airport, at least compared to Appleton. Does she have any interest in or experience with music? St. Olaf has a strong music program, so that might be worth considering too.

They're similar, and both good schools. Congratulations to her!

Yes, she loved Haverford but lucky for us, she loved Lawrence and St. Olaf equally. I guess I was just wondering, on the academic side of things, if there is a benefit to Haverford that Lawrence and St. Olaf could not provide.

She is very musical/theatrical but will not pursue them as an academic subject, though she'd like to stay involved in them.

It's an easier path to an I-bank or top-flight econ or management consultancy if she wants to do that for a couple of years between college and grad school. But as far as research opportunities? No. Peer group? Not significantly.

She's definitely not interested in Wall Street/banking/management consultancy/etc. - she'd be more interested in the public policy route (also considering a political science major or minor). She also would like to join the Peace Corps before going to grad school.

isn't she supposed to get a scholarship for a graduate program? i mean do people actually pay to get phds?

I had a full scholarship for my social science PhD and still took out some loans. 13K a year doesn't get you very far.

[Anonymous]

Parent of a current Ole who also got a very generous scholarship and turned down a higher ranked but full price school to go there. She is a political science major and loves it there. Let me know if you have any questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parent of a current Ole who also got a very generous scholarship and turned down a higher ranked but full price school to go there. She is a political science major and loves it there. Let me know if you have any questions.

PP at 19:05. We have yet to visit and are plannjng to see St. Olaf this month. What year is your student? My DS is not interested in music or math but perhaps political science. Would he feel left out/out of place since both of those subjects seem to be what most people emphasize. How does your DC find the professors? Do they seem available and interested in the students outside the classroom? If so, in what ways besides office hours? What does your DC say about the dry campus? What about diversity on campus? I know in some ways this is a superficial question but I am somewhat concerned about name recognition outside of the Midwest when time to find a job after graduation, especially since my DS would like to come back here - what are your thoughts? Thank you so much!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oof, that out of pocket for Haverford would be brutal. I think it's better than the other two, but THAT much better? No. Unless she has her heart set on it, which it sounds like she does not, I'd take it off the table.

Of the other two, I went to a different SLAC in Wisconsin and am familiar with both of them; I know several graduates from each. I would pick St. Olaf -- better (ish) location -- it's relatively close to a major international airport, at least compared to Appleton. Does she have any interest in or experience with music? St. Olaf has a strong music program, so that might be worth considering too.

They're similar, and both good schools. Congratulations to her!

I generally agree with this analysis. Haverford is the strongest of the three schools in most respects -- and certainly in econ. (Although certainly not in music, where St. Olaf, strong as it is, falls in behind Lawrence, which is truly outstanding.) But $120K over 4 years to go there instead of St. Olaf? When that $120K actually matters? Pass. St. Olaf is a good school with a strong econ department in a fine town -- all the makings of a great college experience. (Lawrence trails by a small gap in each respect -- I'd pay the extra $20K over 4 years for St. Olaf...but I also don't think it would be crazy to come out the other way on that question. I certainly wouldn't "force" her to attend St. Olaf if she preferred Lawrence in these circumstances.)

I second the congratulations!

Haverford is definitely the strongest. But, having gone there briefly, I can confirm that it is one nasty, invasive, weird place. I would not send anyone there, no matter what. The "honor code" is a means of ensuring total conformity. The tiny size is stifling. It is in a consortium with Swarthmore, Penn and Bryn Mawr, but it is not the equal of any of those three, by a stretch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oof, that out of pocket for Haverford would be brutal. I think it's better than the other two, but THAT much better? No. Unless she has her heart set on it, which it sounds like she does not, I'd take it off the table.

Of the other two, I went to a different SLAC in Wisconsin and am familiar with both of them; I know several graduates from each. I would pick St. Olaf -- better (ish) location -- it's relatively close to a major international airport, at least compared to Appleton. Does she have any interest in or experience with music? St. Olaf has a strong music program, so that might be worth considering too.

They're similar, and both good schools. Congratulations to her!

Yes, she loved Haverford but lucky for us, she loved Lawrence and St. Olaf equally. I guess I was just wondering, on the academic side of things, if there is a benefit to Haverford that Lawrence and St. Olaf could not provide.

She is very musical/theatrical but will not pursue them as an academic subject, though she'd like to stay involved in them.

It's an easier path to an I-bank or top-flight econ or management consultancy if she wants to do that for a couple of years between college and grad school. But as far as research opportunities? No. Peer group? Not significantly.

She's definitely not interested in Wall Street/banking/management consultancy/etc. - she'd be more interested in the public policy route (also considering a political science major or minor). She also would like to join the Peace Corps before going to grad school.

isn't she supposed to get a scholarship for a graduate program? i mean do people actually pay to get phds?

I had a full scholarship for my social science PhD and still took out some loans. 13K a year doesn't get you very far.

If she decides to get a master's in policy, chances are she'll pay a good deal for that our of pocket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Haverford is definitely the strongest. But, having gone there briefly, I can confirm that it is one nasty, invasive, weird place. I would not send anyone there, no matter what. The "honor code" is a means of ensuring total conformity. The tiny size is stifling. It is in a consortium with Swarthmore, Penn and Bryn Mawr, but it is not the equal of any of those three, by a stretch.

As an alum, I'll agree with "weird." I'm sorry you hated it.

Anyway, OP, much as I loved Haverford, I'd have a hard time telling someone to go deep in the hole financially for it, especially if you think your daughter might want another degree she'll have to pay for.

I hope this is turning into a happy quandary for her rather than an agonizing one.