any surprises in terms of financial aid for upper middle class kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why should UMC parents be getting any financial aid at all when they can clearly pay?

Schools, even in-state schools, should have a sliding scale with higher tuition for those who can pay more and lower for those who cannot.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that they (we) should. The challenge for UMC families is that many of us can neither pay full price, nor qualify for need-based aid.

[Anonymous]

NP: forgive the rookie question (parent of a middle schooler) but how do you start to figure out which schools are likely to give your child merit aid? We are around $150K HHI right now and expect to have around $80K in a 529 by the time DC1 reaches college age. Obviously not enough to pay full freight and probably too much income to qualify for much (if any) need based aid. So how we begin to figure out which schools might give our kid some merit aid? Do college counselors help with this? Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP: forgive the rookie question (parent of a middle schooler) but how do you start to figure out which schools are likely to give your child merit aid? We are around $150K HHI right now and expect to have around $80K in a 529 by the time DC1 reaches college age. Obviously not enough to pay full freight and probably too much income to qualify for much (if any) need based aid. So how we begin to figure out which schools might give our kid some merit aid? Do college counselors help with this? Thanks.

One way to do it is to look at this list of Kiplinger's Value Colleges: http://www.kiplinger.com/tool/college/T014-S001-kiplinger-s-best-values-in-private-colleges/index.php

You can sort this list by column 9 - % of students receiving non-need based aid - also known as merit aid. It gives this percentage for liberal arts colleges, public colleges and private universities. I'm using this list to help my DD identify safety schools and get a grip on how this shakes out for the top schools she is interested in. We are allowing her to apply where she wants but that she has to have 2-3 safeties where she is at the top of the applicant poll and where we can afford. We live in DC so no instate option for us - so she has to look further down the rankings list at schools that will want her for her stats and great personality.

The financial piece is a hard pill to swallow. Now I just did the calculator for Amherst our HHI is in the donut hole and it came back that our EFC would be half of the cost. Does anyone know if the calculators on college websites are accurate? It seems like every schools has its own scale they are using to determine need-based aid. Best advice is to complete the FAFSA form even if you don't think you will qualify.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP: forgive the rookie question (parent of a middle schooler) but how do you start to figure out which schools are likely to give your child merit aid? We are around $150K HHI right now and expect to have around $80K in a 529 by the time DC1 reaches college age. Obviously not enough to pay full freight and probably too much income to qualify for much (if any) need based aid. So how we begin to figure out which schools might give our kid some merit aid? Do college counselors help with this? Thanks.

Start with this book:

https://www.amazon.com/College-Solution-Everyone-Looking-School/dp/0132944677/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1491244397&sr=1-1&keywords=the+college+solution

and website:

http://www.thecollegesolution.com/

Google name of school + merit scholarship.

Look at Kiplinger's best value schools.

Look at the Common Data Set for each school as directed by the author of the book.

Astonishingly (to me), most people are clueless about this. There is a method to the madness - you just have to learn and apply it. When acceptances and merit and FA offers come in, they should not be a surprise. If they are, you have not done your homework.

[Anonymous]

Thank you 13:06 and 14:34! Super helpful. I feel like college admissions is completely different than when I applied 25 years ago, it's overwhelming.

[Anonymous]

There are threads on College Confidential listing schools that give generous merit aid. I think there is a fairly recent one.
Some schools require very specific stats and you get the specified range of aid (1/4 tuition+, 1/2 to full tuition, etc.), others require stats plus other qualities (some specified, some not).

[Anonymous]

PP here, just FYI, we did research and our DS got full tuition one school, 1/2 tuition at another (more highly ranked). We qualify for no financial aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP: forgive the rookie question (parent of a middle schooler) but how do you start to figure out which schools are likely to give your child merit aid? We are around $150K HHI right now and expect to have around $80K in a 529 by the time DC1 reaches college age. Obviously not enough to pay full freight and probably too much income to qualify for much (if any) need based aid. So how we begin to figure out which schools might give our kid some merit aid? Do college counselors help with this? Thanks.

Start with this book:

https://www.amazon.com/College-Solution-Everyone-Looking-School/dp/0132944677/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1491244397&sr=1-1&keywords=the+college+solution

and website:

http://www.thecollegesolution.com/

Google name of school + merit scholarship.

Look at Kiplinger's best value schools.

Look at the Common Data Set for each school as directed by the author of the book.

Astonishingly (to me), most people are clueless about this. There is a method to the madness - you just have to learn and apply it. When acceptances and merit and FA offers come in, they should not be a surprise. If they are, you have not done your homework.

+1.

My 3rd DC is a HS senior and these are exactly the resources we used and in large part how we selected colleges to apply to with him and his first two siblings. And, fortunately for us, it worked, with numerous merit scholarships awarded to each DC and some excellent options from which to select.

[Anonymous]

Single parent, 1 DC, 97K HHI, no need based aid or work study.

[Anonymous]

It depends on so much more than just income. When touring some of the super-elite schools (Princeton comes to mind), they gave percentages of how many families making over $200k received aid (something like 20%) and what their average financial aid packages were (something like $20k, and none of it was loans). So clearly there are some families making over $200k that are getting significant aid from the schools with huge endowments. Princeton wasn't the only one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It depends on so much more than just income. When touring some of the super-elite schools (Princeton comes to mind), they gave percentages of how many families making over $200k received aid (something like 20%) and what their average financial aid packages were (something like $20k, and none of it was loans). So clearly there are some families making over $200k that are getting significant aid from the schools with huge endowments. Princeton wasn't the only one.

This is my impression too. There was a study done recently that showed that the majority of students at these elite schools come fro upper income families. There are very, very few poor students attending these elite schools for all their socioeconomic diversity talk. So someone is getting need based financial aid.....

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/18/upshot/some-colleges-have-more-students-from-the-top-1-percent-than-the-bottom-60.html?_r=0

We are trying to build a very diverse list of schools and including schools that offer merit aid and the list will include a couple of Ivy and little Ivy schools too. I'm really curious about how financial aid and merit aid will shake out (if DC even gets accepted).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on so much more than just income. When touring some of the super-elite schools (Princeton comes to mind), they gave percentages of how many families making over $200k received aid (something like 20%) and what their average financial aid packages were (something like $20k, and none of it was loans). So clearly there are some families making over $200k that are getting significant aid from the schools with huge endowments. Princeton wasn't the only one.

This is my impression too. There was a study done recently that showed that the majority of students at these elite schools come fro upper income families. There are very, very few poor students attending these elite schools for all their socioeconomic diversity talk. So someone is getting need based financial aid.....

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/18/upshot/some-colleges-have-more-students-from-the-top-1-percent-than-the-bottom-60.html?_r=0

We are trying to build a very diverse list of schools and including schools that offer merit aid and the list will include a couple of Ivy and little Ivy schools too. I'm really curious about how financial aid and merit aid will shake out (if DC even gets accepted).

Ivy and "little Ivy" (whatever that means) schools do not award merit aid.

Nor are they diverse, according to the link you provided.

In any case, the headline reads, "Some Colleges Have More Students From the Top 1 Percent Than the Bottom 60." The top 1 Percent. The 1 Percent can easily pay full price at Ivy and "little Ivy" schools.

According to statistical data from the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), the top 1% had an adjusted gross income of $465,626 or higher for the 2014 tax year. The Washington Center for Equitable Growth put the average household income for this group at $1,260,508 for 2014.

http://www.investopedia.com/news/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/#ixzz4dHkYZDLX

These people are not getting financial aid.

On the other hand, the top e.g. 5 Percent cannot easily pay full price (currently close to $70K/year) and are unlikely to get much if any need-based aid.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/01/15/business/one-percent-map.html

I can tell you from personal experience that Harvard will give a family of four earning $220K/year zero dollars in need-based aid. We are in the Five Percent. For us, the only choices are in-state or schools that award merit aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on so much more than just income. When touring some of the super-elite schools (Princeton comes to mind), they gave percentages of how many families making over $200k received aid (something like 20%) and what their average financial aid packages were (something like $20k, and none of it was loans). So clearly there are some families making over $200k that are getting significant aid from the schools with huge endowments. Princeton wasn't the only one.

This is my impression too. There was a study done recently that showed that the majority of students at these elite schools come fro upper income families. There are very, very few poor students attending these elite schools for all their socioeconomic diversity talk. So someone is getting need based financial aid.....

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/18/upshot/some-colleges-have-more-students-from-the-top-1-percent-than-the-bottom-60.html?_r=0

We are trying to build a very diverse list of schools and including schools that offer merit aid and the list will include a couple of Ivy and little Ivy schools too. I'm really curious about how financial aid and merit aid will shake out (if DC even gets accepted).

Ivy and "little Ivy" (whatever that means) schools do not award merit aid.

Nor are they diverse, according to the link you provided.

In any case, the headline reads, "Some Colleges Have More Students From the Top 1 Percent Than the Bottom 60." The top 1 Percent. The 1 Percent can easily pay full price at Ivy and "little Ivy" schools.

According to statistical data from the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), the top 1% had an adjusted gross income of $465,626 or higher for the 2014 tax year. The Washington Center for Equitable Growth put the average household income for this group at $1,260,508 for 2014.

http://www.investopedia.com/news/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/#ixzz4dHkYZDLX

These people are not getting financial aid.

On the other hand, the top e.g. 5 Percent cannot easily pay full price (currently close to $70K/year) and are unlikely to get much if any need-based aid.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/01/15/business/one-percent-map.html

I can tell you from personal experience that Harvard will give a family of four earning $220K/year zero dollars in need-based aid. We are in the Five Percent. For us, the only choices are in-state or schools that award merit aid.

Yes understand that Ivies and Little Ivies don't give merit aid but those will only be 3-4 options of my DC's list, the remainder will be ones that give merit aid based on the Kiplinger list. And yes understood that the top 1% will pay full freight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on so much more than just income. When touring some of the super-elite schools (Princeton comes to mind), they gave percentages of how many families making over $200k received aid (something like 20%) and what their average financial aid packages were (something like $20k, and none of it was loans). So clearly there are some families making over $200k that are getting significant aid from the schools with huge endowments. Princeton wasn't the only one.

This is my impression too. There was a study done recently that showed that the majority of students at these elite schools come fro upper income families. There are very, very few poor students attending these elite schools for all their socioeconomic diversity talk. So someone is getting need based financial aid.....

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/18/upshot/some-colleges-have-more-students-from-the-top-1-percent-than-the-bottom-60.html?_r=0

We are trying to build a very diverse list of schools and including schools that offer merit aid and the list will include a couple of Ivy and little Ivy schools too. I'm really curious about how financial aid and merit aid will shake out (if DC even gets accepted).

Ivy and "little Ivy" (whatever that means) schools do not award merit aid.

Nor are they diverse, according to the link you provided.

In any case, the headline reads, "Some Colleges Have More Students From the Top 1 Percent Than the Bottom 60." The top 1 Percent. The 1 Percent can easily pay full price at Ivy and "little Ivy" schools.

According to statistical data from the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), the top 1% had an adjusted gross income of $465,626 or higher for the 2014 tax year. The Washington Center for Equitable Growth put the average household income for this group at $1,260,508 for 2014.

http://www.investopedia.com/news/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/#ixzz4dHkYZDLX

These people are not getting financial aid.

On the other hand, the top e.g. 5 Percent cannot easily pay full price (currently close to $70K/year) and are unlikely to get much if any need-based aid.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/01/15/business/one-percent-map.html

I can tell you from personal experience that Harvard will give a family of four earning $220K/year zero dollars in need-based aid. We are in the Five Percent. For us, the only choices are in-state or schools that award merit aid.

Yes understand that Ivies and Little Ivies don't give merit aid but those will only be 3-4 options of my DC's list, the remainder will be ones that give merit aid based on the Kiplinger list. And yes understood that the top 1% will pay full freight.

The top 5% will also pay full freight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It depends on so much more than just income. When touring some of the super-elite schools (Princeton comes to mind), they gave percentages of how many families making over $200k received aid (something like 20%) and what their average financial aid packages were (something like $20k, and none of it was loans). So clearly there are some families making over $200k that are getting significant aid from the schools with huge endowments. Princeton wasn't the only one.

Keep in mind that families over $200k may be getting financial aid, but it may be an amount that does not put much of a dent in a $70k price tag. Also, it's not useful to know that there are families over $200k getting financial aid if you don't know how many children those families have in college. We make $220k with a family of four, but only one in college. Our expected family contribution is $51k. That means that DS received financial aid worth almost $20k from an Ivy, but we still were left with having to pay ~$51k. And if both are kids had been in college that year, DS would have gotten more financial aid, but we'd have been paying more than $51k out of pocket in tuition payments for both kids. So don't kid yourself about what "financial aid" means for families in this income bracket.