is there any HARM in doing immune protocol recommended by RI? can it decrease chances?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who see Hamersley - how early in the process did you go to her? If you got pregnant, from which week is she monitoring you?

I saw her starting around week 9 or 10 for a pregnancy confirmation/dating scan. Saw her for the NT scan a couple weeks later. Again at 18 and 20 weeks for the anatomy scan (had to do it twice). Then monthly thereafter until 34 weeks, at which point I will see her weekly. This is on top of regular OB visits since she does not deliver. (But I skip the scanning stuff with the OB since she does it better.) I have also continued to see Abbasi (just the nurse) every 2-3 weeks for blood draws so she can monitor the immune stuff. It's a lot of appointments, but hopefully worth it in the end!

Thank you for responding PP. So presumably by the week 9 or 10 you were already on some sort of regimen for immunes and/or clotting issues. Was that whatever Abbasi prescribed for the IVF, or something else?

Yes, all this stuff was prescribed by Abbasi to start a few days before my IUI (along with letrozole) and I have just continued it with monitoring by her and Hamersley. I did IUI, not IVF -- like another PP, I get pregnant easily but my issue is recurrent miscarriage. I don't think IVF would have entailed a different regimen other than what is needed for IVF itself. We would have tried that next, with PGS testing, had the IUI not worked or the baby had a chromosomal issue. Abbasi left it up to us which procedure to try first and did not indicate that the immune meds would have been any different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's somewhat unclear if fiddling with your immune system (i.e. through steroids, intralipids or IVIG) could increase the risk for cancer. But there's probably not much risk with short-term use.

IVIGs have been tested and approved by FDS and are actually used for other conditions. So are the steroids. Why is it all of a sudden "unclear" for infertility patients?

I can't speak to other conditions for which IVIG, etc. are indicated but when I started treatment through the Beer Center several years ago, I had to sign a release that I understood that cancer could be one risk of treatment. See below:

VI. What is Intralipid?

Intralipids are a fat emulsion solution used as a nutritional supplement in patients with nutritional deficiencies. It is a synthetic product that has 10% soybean oil, egg yolk phospholipids, glycerin and water. It also contains a small amount of aluminum (25mcg/L). It is administered intravenously (injected in the vein).

Some recent studies have shown it may decrease the killing activity (cytotoxicity) of natural killer cells (NK cells). NK cells are part of the immune system that helps control infection and cancer growth. In infertility patients this may improve implantation and successful pregnancy outcome rates. The conventional treatment for increased cytotoxicity is an infusion of intravenous gamma globulin (IVIG).

http://www.immunologysupport.com/treatments.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's somewhat unclear if fiddling with your immune system (i.e. through steroids, intralipids or IVIG) could increase the risk for cancer. But there's probably not much risk with short-term use.

IVIGs have been tested and approved by FDS and are actually used for other conditions. So are the steroids. Why is it all of a sudden "unclear" for infertility patients?

I can't speak to other conditions for which IVIG, etc. are indicated but when I started treatment through the Beer Center several years ago, I had to sign a release that I understood that cancer could be one risk of treatment. See below:

VI. What is Intralipid?

Intralipids are a fat emulsion solution used as a nutritional supplement in patients with nutritional deficiencies. It is a synthetic product that has 10% soybean oil, egg yolk phospholipids, glycerin and water. It also contains a small amount of aluminum (25mcg/L). It is administered intravenously (injected in the vein).

Some recent studies have shown it may decrease the killing activity (cytotoxicity) of natural killer cells (NK cells). NK cells are part of the immune system that helps control infection and cancer growth. In infertility patients this may improve implantation and successful pregnancy outcome rates. The conventional treatment for increased cytotoxicity is an infusion of intravenous gamma globulin (IVIG).

http://www.immunologysupport.com/treatments.html

Yes, intralipids are sketchier, but cheaper. Note the last sentence where it clearly says that IVIG is the conventional method (typical, more accepted).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's somewhat unclear if fiddling with your immune system (i.e. through steroids, intralipids or IVIG) could increase the risk for cancer. But there's probably not much risk with short-term use.

IVIGs have been tested and approved by FDS and are actually used for other conditions. So are the steroids. Why is it all of a sudden "unclear" for infertility patients?

I can't speak to other conditions for which IVIG, etc. are indicated but when I started treatment through the Beer Center several years ago, I had to sign a release that I understood that cancer could be one risk of treatment. See below:

VI. What is Intralipid?

Intralipids are a fat emulsion solution used as a nutritional supplement in patients with nutritional deficiencies. It is a synthetic product that has 10% soybean oil, egg yolk phospholipids, glycerin and water. It also contains a small amount of aluminum (25mcg/L). It is administered intravenously (injected in the vein).

Some recent studies have shown it may decrease the killing activity (cytotoxicity) of natural killer cells (NK cells). NK cells are part of the immune system that helps control infection and cancer growth. In infertility patients this may improve implantation and successful pregnancy outcome rates. The conventional treatment for increased cytotoxicity is an infusion of intravenous gamma globulin (IVIG).

http://www.immunologysupport.com/treatments.html

Yes, intralipids are sketchier, but cheaper. Note the last sentence where it clearly says that IVIG is the conventional method (typical, more accepted).

Yes, IVIG is the more established treatment but both IVIG and Intralipids have the same effect, which is to decrease the cytotoxicity of NK cells. What you're essentially doing is temporarily scaling back your body's natural defense against cancer. For most people--in the short term--this is unlikely to be a problem but what if you happen to have a tiny undiagnosed tumor somewhere in your body right now? Could you be enabling something to grow and prosper that your immune system might otherwise take care of?

I'm as much a believer in the power of reproductive immunology as anyone else. I have two healthy and beautiful children as a result of my own treatment, but I think we need to be realistic about the potential risks. The Beer Center wouldn't be asking patients to sign a release that mentions cancer if it wasn't at least a small risk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:wait so you're doing intralipids, prednisone, lovenox etc and TTC naturally, not IVF? why?

Not PP, but my guess is that she gets pregnant easily but can't stay pregnant.

. I'm 14:36 and yes, that's correct. I get pregnant on my own but have chemical pregnancies. I tested for immune issues and found answers before considering IVF. I gather that's not always the case for people because many REs don't believe in or offer immune treatments.

Immune vet here and this was the case for me too. When trying naturally all my treatments were from ovulation to AF or continue through beta and onward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's somewhat unclear if fiddling with your immune system (i.e. through steroids, intralipids or IVIG) could increase the risk for cancer. But there's probably not much risk with short-term use.

IVIGs have been tested and approved by FDS and are actually used for other conditions. So are the steroids. Why is it all of a sudden "unclear" for infertility patients?

I can't speak to other conditions for which IVIG, etc. are indicated but when I started treatment through the Beer Center several years ago, I had to sign a release that I understood that cancer could be one risk of treatment. See below:

VI. What is Intralipid?

Intralipids are a fat emulsion solution used as a nutritional supplement in patients with nutritional deficiencies. It is a synthetic product that has 10% soybean oil, egg yolk phospholipids, glycerin and water. It also contains a small amount of aluminum (25mcg/L). It is administered intravenously (injected in the vein).

Some recent studies have shown it may decrease the killing activity (cytotoxicity) of natural killer cells (NK cells). NK cells are part of the immune system that helps control infection and cancer growth. In infertility patients this may improve implantation and successful pregnancy outcome rates. The conventional treatment for increased cytotoxicity is an infusion of intravenous gamma globulin (IVIG).

http://www.immunologysupport.com/treatments.html

Yes, intralipids are sketchier, but cheaper. Note the last sentence where it clearly says that IVIG is the conventional method (typical, more accepted).

Yes, IVIG is the more established treatment but both IVIG and Intralipids have the same effect, which is to decrease the cytotoxicity of NK cells. What you're essentially doing is temporarily scaling back your body's natural defense against cancer. For most people--in the short term--this is unlikely to be a problem but what if you happen to have a tiny undiagnosed tumor somewhere in your body right now? Could you be enabling something to grow and prosper that your immune system might otherwise take care of?

I'm as much a believer in the power of reproductive immunology as anyone else. I have two healthy and beautiful children as a result of my own treatment, but I think we need to be realistic about the potential risks. The Beer Center wouldn't be asking patients to sign a release that mentions cancer if it wasn't at least a small risk.

I'm not sure I'd say IL and IVIG have the same effect. They definitely had very different impacts on my numbers with IVIG being more effective for both NKs and TNF. This is why prednisone is typically added with IL. The issues that some of us have with our immune system is about balance and sometimes that involves suppressing TNF-a or NKs to allow another cell subset to come to the forefront the way they are supposed to during early pregnancy. Some treatments suppress and others enhance. IVIG enhances the immune system of former cancer patients vs suppressing it. Neupogen also enhances the immune system by increasing WBC counts and lymphocytes. So there is some push and pull here and other cell subsets that can cause apoptosis of cancer cells vs just TNF and NKs. The immune system is so very complex I think this is a bit of a loaded discussion here and probably impossible to prove one way or the other with the information at hand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's somewhat unclear if fiddling with your immune system (i.e. through steroids, intralipids or IVIG) could increase the risk for cancer. But there's probably not much risk with short-term use.

IVIGs have been tested and approved by FDS and are actually used for other conditions. So are the steroids. Why is it all of a sudden "unclear" for infertility patients?

I can't speak to other conditions for which IVIG, etc. are indicated but when I started treatment through the Beer Center several years ago, I had to sign a release that I understood that cancer could be one risk of treatment. See below:

VI. What is Intralipid?

Intralipids are a fat emulsion solution used as a nutritional supplement in patients with nutritional deficiencies. It is a synthetic product that has 10% soybean oil, egg yolk phospholipids, glycerin and water. It also contains a small amount of aluminum (25mcg/L). It is administered intravenously (injected in the vein).

Some recent studies have shown it may decrease the killing activity (cytotoxicity) of natural killer cells (NK cells). NK cells are part of the immune system that helps control infection and cancer growth. In infertility patients this may improve implantation and successful pregnancy outcome rates. The conventional treatment for increased cytotoxicity is an infusion of intravenous gamma globulin (IVIG).

http://www.immunologysupport.com/treatments.html

Yes, intralipids are sketchier, but cheaper. Note the last sentence where it clearly says that IVIG is the conventional method (typical, more accepted).

Yes, IVIG is the more established treatment but both IVIG and Intralipids have the same effect, which is to decrease the cytotoxicity of NK cells. What you're essentially doing is temporarily scaling back your body's natural defense against cancer. For most people--in the short term--this is unlikely to be a problem but what if you happen to have a tiny undiagnosed tumor somewhere in your body right now? Could you be enabling something to grow and prosper that your immune system might otherwise take care of?

I'm as much a believer in the power of reproductive immunology as anyone else. I have two healthy and beautiful children as a result of my own treatment, but I think we need to be realistic about the potential risks. The Beer Center wouldn't be asking patients to sign a release that mentions cancer if it wasn't at least a small risk.

New poster. This is exactly why I decided to stop all treatments once I was diagnosed with immune issues (severe). There has to be a reason why my immune system is so ramped up right now, possibly because I have a tiny undiagnosed tumor that my ramped up immune system is keeping in check. It is not worth it to me to take these medications, for which we have no long term health effects data, to try to get pregnant when the risk of getting cancer later from suppressing my immune system now is too much of a risk for me to deal with. I have tons of cancer in my family history and don't want to take that risk given that the chances of success of trying to get pregnant are so low. Other people may find the risk acceptable, but for me it's not a risk I want to take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's somewhat unclear if fiddling with your immune system (i.e. through steroids, intralipids or IVIG) could increase the risk for cancer. But there's probably not much risk with short-term use.

IVIGs have been tested and approved by FDS and are actually used for other conditions. So are the steroids. Why is it all of a sudden "unclear" for infertility patients?

I can't speak to other conditions for which IVIG, etc. are indicated but when I started treatment through the Beer Center several years ago, I had to sign a release that I understood that cancer could be one risk of treatment. See below:

VI. What is Intralipid?

Intralipids are a fat emulsion solution used as a nutritional supplement in patients with nutritional deficiencies. It is a synthetic product that has 10% soybean oil, egg yolk phospholipids, glycerin and water. It also contains a small amount of aluminum (25mcg/L). It is administered intravenously (injected in the vein).

Some recent studies have shown it may decrease the killing activity (cytotoxicity) of natural killer cells (NK cells). NK cells are part of the immune system that helps control infection and cancer growth. In infertility patients this may improve implantation and successful pregnancy outcome rates. The conventional treatment for increased cytotoxicity is an infusion of intravenous gamma globulin (IVIG).

http://www.immunologysupport.com/treatments.html

Yes, intralipids are sketchier, but cheaper. Note the last sentence where it clearly says that IVIG is the conventional method (typical, more accepted).

Yes, IVIG is the more established treatment but both IVIG and Intralipids have the same effect, which is to decrease the cytotoxicity of NK cells. What you're essentially doing is temporarily scaling back your body's natural defense against cancer. For most people--in the short term--this is unlikely to be a problem but what if you happen to have a tiny undiagnosed tumor somewhere in your body right now? Could you be enabling something to grow and prosper that your immune system might otherwise take care of?

I'm as much a believer in the power of reproductive immunology as anyone else. I have two healthy and beautiful children as a result of my own treatment, but I think we need to be realistic about the potential risks. The Beer Center wouldn't be asking patients to sign a release that mentions cancer if it wasn't at least a small risk.

New poster. This is exactly why I decided to stop all treatments once I was diagnosed with immune issues (severe). There has to be a reason why my immune system is so ramped up right now, possibly because I have a tiny undiagnosed tumor that my ramped up immune system is keeping in check. It is not worth it to me to take these medications, for which we have no long term health effects data, to try to get pregnant when the risk of getting cancer later from suppressing my immune system now is too much of a risk for me to deal with. I have tons of cancer in my family history and don't want to take that risk given that the chances of success of trying to get pregnant are so low. Other people may find the risk acceptable, but for me it's not a risk I want to take.

Neupogen could replace IVIG for you since it does not kill the immunity.

[Anonymous]

I did IVIG with Dr Abassi after trying "the usual" methods... everything short of IVF. I knew it would be the answer for me because I was having no trouble conceiving (and had zero trouble with my first born child) but just couldn't seem to carry another child past the first trimester. I did IVIG with an IUI. Nothing happened that month, but the next month I conceived naturally, twins, and they stuck! It was a miracle treatment for me, and has also improved my other autoimmune health condition - measurably - as verified by a different doctor who treats me for that condition.