Honors vs. Non-Honors MCPS high school courses

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take honors if your DC can handle. It gives tremendous wGPA boost.

This. It saddens me that parents not in the know believe that "honors" is so much harder that it should be avoided. Unweighted GPA points so significantly change a GOA that it has a serious negative effect on college admissions.

To me non-honors enrollment in mixed classes is the modern equivalent of separate but equal...

One upside to honors that I can think of is... When I was in HS a number of kids in my science classes were terrible at basic math. They couldn't actually teach anything meaningful. Chemistry was basically advanced baby-sitting since they couldn't just fail half the class. I would hope that a program like honors at least allows kids that aren't prepared to learn to opt out...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take honors if your DC can handle. It gives tremendous wGPA boost.

This. It saddens me that parents not in the know believe that "honors" is so much harder that it should be avoided. Unweighted GPA points so significantly change a GOA that it has a serious negative effect on college admissions.

To me non-honors enrollment in mixed classes is the modern equivalent of separate but equal...

Elite colleges no longer care nearly as much about GPA, weighted or unweighted, as they did a generation ago. They care about students pursuing academic challenge, evidence of intellectual curiosity, academic awards and accomplishments, writing skills, extra-curricular accomplishments and standardized test scores. I have a nephew who was ranked 60th in his class when he graduated from a MoCo public school last year, yet fared better in college admissions than anybody in the top ten (no, he's not an athlete, he won various science prizes, scored 800s on SAT subject tests and 5s on half a dozen APs). How do I know this? I earn a good living as an independent college counselor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take honors if your DC can handle. It gives tremendous wGPA boost.

This. It saddens me that parents not in the know believe that "honors" is so much harder that it should be avoided. Unweighted GPA points so significantly change a GOA that it has a serious negative effect on college admissions.

To me non-honors enrollment in mixed classes is the modern equivalent of separate but equal...

Elite colleges no longer care nearly as much about GPA, weighted or unweighted, as they did a generation ago. They care about students pursuing academic challenge, evidence of intellectual curiosity, academic awards and accomplishments, writing skills, extra-curricular accomplishments and standardized test scores. I have a nephew who was ranked 60th in his class when he graduated from a MoCo public school last year, yet fared better in college admissions than anybody in the top ten (no, he's not an athlete, he won various science prizes, scored 800s on SAT subject tests and 5s on half a dozen APs). How do I know this? I earn a good living as an independent college counselor.

I agree with your basic point, but am confused by your example. MCPS doesn't rank students.

[Anonymous]

Some schools don't offer a non-honors version of certain classes (like English and foreign language), some offer both, so first question is are there actually options?

Kids claim that the speed of certain classes and the amount of material covered (particularly in math and science courses) is what separates honors from non-honors.

From a student's perspective, it is easier to try honors first and drop down to regular if it is too hard rather than the reverse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take honors if your DC can handle. It gives tremendous wGPA boost.

This. It saddens me that parents not in the know believe that "honors" is so much harder that it should be avoided. Unweighted GPA points so significantly change a GOA that it has a serious negative effect on college admissions.

To me non-honors enrollment in mixed classes is the modern equivalent of separate but equal...

Elite colleges no longer care nearly as much about GPA, weighted or unweighted, as they did a generation ago. They care about students pursuing academic challenge, evidence of intellectual curiosity, academic awards and accomplishments, writing skills, extra-curricular accomplishments and standardized test scores. I have a nephew who was ranked 60th in his class when he graduated from a MoCo public school last year, yet fared better in college admissions than anybody in the top ten (no, he's not an athlete, he won various science prizes, scored 800s on SAT subject tests and 5s on half a dozen APs). How do I know this? I earn a good living as an independent college counselor.

You must be a terrible college counselor. Top tiers don't care because almost everyone has perfect stats. Lower tier schools certainly do care about GPAs - w and uw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Take honors if your DC can handle. It gives tremendous wGPA boost.

This. It saddens me that parents not in the know believe that "honors" is so much harder that it should be avoided. Unweighted GPA points so significantly change a GOA that it has a serious negative effect on college admissions.

To me non-honors enrollment in mixed classes is the modern equivalent of separate but equal...

Elite colleges no longer care nearly as much about GPA, weighted or unweighted, as they did a generation ago. They care about students pursuing academic challenge, evidence of intellectual curiosity, academic awards and accomplishments, writing skills, extra-curricular accomplishments and standardized test scores. I have a nephew who was ranked 60th in his class when he graduated from a MoCo public school last year, yet fared better in college admissions than anybody in the top ten (no, he's not an athlete, he won various science prizes, scored 800s on SAT subject tests and 5s on half a dozen APs). How do I know this? I earn a good living as an independent college counselor.

You must be a terrible college counselor. Top tiers don't care because almost everyone has perfect stats. Lower tier schools certainly do care about GPAs - w and uw.

So you agree with the PP, but still say he is a terrible counselor?

[Anonymous]

I wish the posters replying to this thread would identify their children's high schools when responding! My kids are at Pyle Middle School which also enrolls ALL the kids in honors so it is very hard to know what a "real" honors class in high school will be like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wish the posters replying to this thread would identify their children's high schools when responding! My kids are at Pyle Middle School which also enrolls ALL the kids in honors so it is very hard to know what a "real" honors class in high school will be like.

How do you know that all the kids at Pyle get enrolled in honors courses? I have an 8th grader there, and I know what he was recommended for, but I have no idea about other kids. Is this posted somewhere? In my son's case, most of the recommendations were for honors, but one was for AP NSL government. I don't know the difference between honors and AP, but I guess they'll tell us at the meeting next week --- if anyone has info there, I'd appreciate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish the posters replying to this thread would identify their children's high schools when responding! My kids are at Pyle Middle School which also enrolls ALL the kids in honors so it is very hard to know what a "real" honors class in high school will be like.

How do you know that all the kids at Pyle get enrolled in honors courses? I have an 8th grader there, and I know what he was recommended for, but I have no idea about other kids. Is this posted somewhere? In my son's case, most of the recommendations were for honors, but one was for AP NSL government. I don't know the difference between honors and AP, but I guess they'll tell us at the meeting next week --- if anyone has info there, I'd appreciate it.

AP GOV is a college level class (supposedly) but it is taught over the whole year rather than 1 semester as it would be in college. It is generally considered the easiest of the AP and a good place to start. If the student scores high enough on the AP test at the end of the year they may receive college credit..depends on the college. My HS does not offer APs to freshman but more than 1/2 of all kids take AP GOV in 10th grade. One thing to keep in mind is that your child has had 1/2 of US History in 8th grade. If they take GOV in 9th they will then go back to US History in 10th. I think it is better to take US History in sequence unless you really want your child to take an AP class as a 9th grader.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish the posters replying to this thread would identify their children's high schools when responding! My kids are at Pyle Middle School which also enrolls ALL the kids in honors so it is very hard to know what a "real" honors class in high school will be like.

How do you know that all the kids at Pyle get enrolled in honors courses? I have an 8th grader there, and I know what he was recommended for, but I have no idea about other kids. Is this posted somewhere? In my son's case, most of the recommendations were for honors, but one was for AP NSL government. I don't know the difference between honors and AP, but I guess they'll tell us at the meeting next week --- if anyone has info there, I'd appreciate it.

Same for Hoover. Virtually all of the kids end up in honors history/social studies and English unless they have learning issues or parents insist that they not do honors classes. Be careful with AP classes for 9th graders. Most of them are not ready for college level classes, but the schools (especially the W schools) continue to push more kids into that in 9th grade. Been there, done that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honors is also a good way to get your kid a better peer group in schools where the non-honors can be trouble

This.

Note that the teachers can't say this at the school events discussing HS course selection.

This is what I've heard from countless actual high school students, and it infuriates me. Honors is meaningless and is basically the regular level since the majority of students land there. The more type A students end up in APs (even freshman year), and the kids who couldn't care less about school are placed in regular classes.

The homework is ridiculous. Too much, especially for regular kids. Those kids would be better served in regular classes, but then they have to deal with the disruptive students (the stories I've heard are shocking).

I'm conflicted (oldest is in MS). I know a bright kid who should have been in honors classes with his peer group, but his parents enrolled him in regular for freshman year...and he's earning straight As. It's not easy...there's still tons of homework. I'm sure someone will comment on weighted gpa and college admissions, but if the goal is to end up at umcp (whether directly or after a semester at MC) does it matter?

UMCP is not easy to get into. Look at their admissions stats. You will be surprised.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honors is also a good way to get your kid a better peer group in schools where the non-honors can be trouble

This.

Note that the teachers can't say this at the school events discussing HS course selection.

This is what I've heard from countless actual high school students, and it infuriates me. Honors is meaningless and is basically the regular level since the majority of students land there. The more type A students end up in APs (even freshman year), and the kids who couldn't care less about school are placed in regular classes.

The homework is ridiculous. Too much, especially for regular kids. Those kids would be better served in regular classes, but then they have to deal with the disruptive students (the stories I've heard are shocking).

I'm conflicted (oldest is in MS). I know a bright kid who should have been in honors classes with his peer group, but his parents enrolled him in regular for freshman year...and he's earning straight As. It's not easy...there's still tons of homework. I'm sure someone will comment on weighted gpa and college admissions, but if the goal is to end up at umcp (whether directly or after a semester at MC) does it matter?

UMCP is not easy to get into. Look at their admissions stats. You will be surprised.

Agreed. The average GPA for admitted freshman at UMD is a 4.2; pretty hard to get that without honors/AP courses...

[Anonymous]

My DS is very strong in humanities but quite weak in math (B's and C's in Algebra in 8th with a lot of help). I am really liking the pace of the Non-honors Geometry class. Much more reasonable than the Algebra class in terms of pace and difficulty. This way he can concentrate on his honors humanities courses, which he enjoys more and excels at. The Bio is pretty demanding in MCPS. DS is in honors Bio and it is too demanding, however his teacher is known to be especially exacting so I would not dissuade your son necessarily from trying honors.