The Solution to the battle of days off with Hogan's calendar

[Anonymous]

I also dislike that spring break moves around so much from year to year based on Easter. No reason to get off the day after Easter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hogan's calendar requirements have meant that some school systems will have to tighten the calendar by removing holidays to be sure to hit the start and end dates. Well, I think there is s solution to this problem (yes it requires legal changes):


When a religious group has x% of the population, that group gets up to 2 holidays off per year in the school calendar. Holidays must occur on a weekday to be granted. In other words, if the holiday is on a Saturday, there is no day off on Friday or Monday to compensate. Then we remove ALL other holidays from the calendar. This means no winter break or spring break. We will get Christmas if it falls on a weekday. We may get Good Friday off as a Catholic holiday. We may get the two Eid holidays if they fall during the school year and on a weekday. We may get Diwali off. We may get the Jewish high holidays off.

And what do you intend to do on Christmas day when you have 90% of teachers call in sick and no one to teach? Nice try.

OP here. Christmas day is covered by the 2 religious holidays for a sizable religious group. My proposal, while still a serious one, had a side purpose to get people to really think about how a schedule should be made and made fairly to accommodate both Hogan's requirements on the school system and all the sizable religious groups that deserve to celebrate their holidays without disrupting the calendar.

[Anonymous]

The holidays aren't just about religion. Non-custodial parents often only get extended visits during breaks, especially if they live out of state.

[Anonymous]

The Hogan order is ridiculous and MCPS should seek a waiver on principle.

[Anonymous]

The only reason the Hogan rule is ridiculous, and it is ridiculous, is that 23 of 24 districts in Maryland have decided it is better for them to follow different rules.

If the districts were equally split OR mostly already following the Hogan rule, then forcing the others to follow would be okay.

If the polls saying 70% of people want the Hogan rule were true, then supporters could easily have voted in enough school boards to get the start date of at least 40 or 50% of districts to be after Labor Day.

There is no way that 70% of the people who vote in the school board elections want the rule. The wording of the poll and/or the people they picked led to whatever conclusion they wanted it to support.

You can argue that school start date isn't important enough to change a school board vote, I will argue back that I don't think we need 23 of 24 boards or 70% of the boards but just 12 of 24 boards supporting the rule to keep it.

We don't have TWO, the rule is ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only reason the Hogan rule is ridiculous, and it is ridiculous, is that 23 of 24 districts in Maryland have decided it is better for them to follow different rules.

If the districts were equally split OR mostly already following the Hogan rule, then forcing the others to follow would be okay.

If the polls saying 70% of people want the Hogan rule were true, then supporters could easily have voted in enough school boards to get the start date of at least 40 or 50% of districts to be after Labor Day.

There is no way that 70% of the people who vote in the school board elections want the rule. The wording of the poll and/or the people they picked led to whatever conclusion they wanted it to support.

You can argue that school start date isn't important enough to change a school board vote, I will argue back that I don't think we need 23 of 24 boards or 70% of the boards but just 12 of 24 boards supporting the rule to keep it.

We don't have TWO, the rule is ridiculous.

I think that's 70% of all MD voters. I couldn't care less what 70% of people who are not parents/teachers/administrators support in terms of our school schedule. It doesn't impact them. It's just a bunch of old ppl who no longer have school aged children thinking "hey, we always started the day after labor day when I was a kid! NOSTALGIA!" never mind that this doesn't benefit the CHILDREN at all and, in fact, with a longer summer, can negatively affect them.

[Anonymous]

Spring break is entirely too long. The students shut down and they don't ever seem to get the chance to ramp back up before the end of the school year. This year, Howard County designated "Easter Monday" to be a snow makeup day (as well as President's day) and I would love to see more spring break days used that way. That's what they did when I was a kid here in Maryland. The problem is that it seems like everyone wants to go on cruises during spring break and the kids get pulled from school regardless. I don't know when spring break turned into cruise week. It wasn't like that when I was a kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The only reason the Hogan rule is ridiculous, and it is ridiculous, is that 23 of 24 districts in Maryland have decided it is better for them to follow different rules.

If the districts were equally split OR mostly already following the Hogan rule, then forcing the others to follow would be okay.

If the polls saying 70% of people want the Hogan rule were true, then supporters could easily have voted in enough school boards to get the start date of at least 40 or 50% of districts to be after Labor Day.

There is no way that 70% of the people who vote in the school board elections want the rule. The wording of the poll and/or the people they picked led to whatever conclusion they wanted it to support.

You can argue that school start date isn't important enough to change a school board vote, I will argue back that I don't think we need 23 of 24 boards or 70% of the boards but just 12 of 24 boards supporting the rule to keep it.

We don't have TWO, the rule is ridiculous.

I am the PP who said it is ridiculous. I completely agree with you and that is why I think it's ridiculous if not outrageous.

[Anonymous]

A couple of years ago, when the MCPS school board removed the names of religious holidays from the school calendar, they stated that it is their policy to only include religious holidays to the calendar if the student/teacher absentee rate exceeds 15%. This is why Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur were added many years ago. This is because public school systems cannot legally call a school holiday exclusively for religious purposes - it MUST be for operational reasons.

The school board made a terrible mistake last year when they reversed that policy and added Eid to the calendar as a professional day. They admitted when they did so that they wanted to honor the diversity of our county and that the absentee data did not support it. Notice that they are currently trying to get around that mistake by suggesting that the professional day on September 12 wasn't to honor a religious holiday and that it was simply a coincidence that it occurred on EID. I would imagine that the lawyers for MCPS went bananas when the school board made that decision and that they are becoming more frustrated now that the board is considering adding Diwali and Lunar New Year, because like EID, there is not an operational reason to do so.

I think it is vitally important that we honor the religious diversity of our students in MCPS, and we do so currently by allowing students and teachers to take excused absences when religious holidays occur. However, we simply cannot honor everyone of every religious faith by having a day off - there is not enough time in the school year to do so. By adding Eid to the calendar, the board has set a precedent that will most certainly result in inequity.

I believe we should collect new data on all of our religious holidays to ensure that they are meeting the 15% threshold. In addition, I think we should be lobbying the state to eliminate Good Friday and Easter Monday from the list of state holidays and only include them if they meet the 15% absentee benchmark. I am a religious person myself, but I understand that in a public school system, we simply cannot allow religion to dictate operations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The holidays aren't just about religion. Non-custodial parents often only get extended visits during breaks, especially if they live out of state.

OK so then what would happen if we moved the break thanksgiving break? Give a week off for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A couple of years ago, when the MCPS school board removed the names of religious holidays from the school calendar, they stated that it is their policy to only include religious holidays to the calendar if the student/teacher absentee rate exceeds 15%. This is why Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur were added many years ago. This is because public school systems cannot legally call a school holiday exclusively for religious purposes - it MUST be for operational reasons.

The school board made a terrible mistake last year when they reversed that policy and added Eid to the calendar as a professional day. They admitted when they did so that they wanted to honor the diversity of our county and that the absentee data did not support it. Notice that they are currently trying to get around that mistake by suggesting that the professional day on September 12 wasn't to honor a religious holiday and that it was simply a coincidence that it occurred on EID. I would imagine that the lawyers for MCPS went bananas when the school board made that decision and that they are becoming more frustrated now that the board is considering adding Diwali and Lunar New Year, because like EID, there is not an operational reason to do so.

I think it is vitally important that we honor the religious diversity of our students in MCPS, and we do so currently by allowing students and teachers to take excused absences when religious holidays occur. However, we simply cannot honor everyone of every religious faith by having a day off - there is not enough time in the school year to do so. By adding Eid to the calendar, the board has set a precedent that will most certainly result in inequity.

I believe we should collect new data on all of our religious holidays to ensure that they are meeting the 15% threshold. In addition, I think we should be lobbying the state to eliminate Good Friday and Easter Monday from the list of state holidays and only include them if they meet the 15% absentee benchmark. I am a religious person myself, but I understand that in a public school system, we simply cannot allow religion to dictate operations.

First, the area is not 15% Jewish. Second, there are many schools where the absentee rate for students is much more than 15% on Eid.

[Anonymous]

While it's true that there are schools that have higher and lower absentee rates for specific holidays, MCPS has traditionally looked at the absentee rate for the entire school system. The reason is because that is what influences operations. Specifically, the system as a whole has trouble functioning if 15% of students/teachers are absent on a given day.

For example, if a school has a large population of teachers who practice the Islamic faith, the system can still easily provide substitute teachers at that school because many schools have fewer teachers who practice that particular faith. And while some individual schools might have to make adjustments to lesson plans if a lot of students are absent on a particular religious holiday, the whole system's operations are not really impacted if the majority of schools can still function as planned with the majority of students in attendance.

I hope I'm making sense. Long story short, we cannot incorporate religious holidays into the calendar just because there a few schools that meet the 15% threshold - it is a system-wide benchmark.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple of years ago, when the MCPS school board removed the names of religious holidays from the school calendar, they stated that it is their policy to only include religious holidays to the calendar if the student/teacher absentee rate exceeds 15%. This is why Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur were added many years ago. This is because public school systems cannot legally call a school holiday exclusively for religious purposes - it MUST be for operational reasons.

The school board made a terrible mistake last year when they reversed that policy and added Eid to the calendar as a professional day. They admitted when they did so that they wanted to honor the diversity of our county and that the absentee data did not support it. Notice that they are currently trying to get around that mistake by suggesting that the professional day on September 12 wasn't to honor a religious holiday and that it was simply a coincidence that it occurred on EID. I would imagine that the lawyers for MCPS went bananas when the school board made that decision and that they are becoming more frustrated now that the board is considering adding Diwali and Lunar New Year, because like EID, there is not an operational reason to do so.

I think it is vitally important that we honor the religious diversity of our students in MCPS, and we do so currently by allowing students and teachers to take excused absences when religious holidays occur. However, we simply cannot honor everyone of every religious faith by having a day off - there is not enough time in the school year to do so. By adding Eid to the calendar, the board has set a precedent that will most certainly result in inequity.

I believe we should collect new data on all of our religious holidays to ensure that they are meeting the 15% threshold. In addition, I think we should be lobbying the state to eliminate Good Friday and Easter Monday from the list of state holidays and only include them if they meet the 15% absentee benchmark. I am a religious person myself, but I understand that in a public school system, we simply cannot allow religion to dictate operations.

First, the area is not 15% Jewish. Second, there are many schools where the absentee rate for students is much more than 15% on Eid.

It's about 12% Jewish. High compared to other parts of the country. Some schools are much higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple of years ago, when the MCPS school board removed the names of religious holidays from the school calendar, they stated that it is their policy to only include religious holidays to the calendar if the student/teacher absentee rate exceeds 15%. This is why Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur were added many years ago. This is because public school systems cannot legally call a school holiday exclusively for religious purposes - it MUST be for operational reasons.

The school board made a terrible mistake last year when they reversed that policy and added Eid to the calendar as a professional day. They admitted when they did so that they wanted to honor the diversity of our county and that the absentee data did not support it. Notice that they are currently trying to get around that mistake by suggesting that the professional day on September 12 wasn't to honor a religious holiday and that it was simply a coincidence that it occurred on EID. I would imagine that the lawyers for MCPS went bananas when the school board made that decision and that they are becoming more frustrated now that the board is considering adding Diwali and Lunar New Year, because like EID, there is not an operational reason to do so.

I think it is vitally important that we honor the religious diversity of our students in MCPS, and we do so currently by allowing students and teachers to take excused absences when religious holidays occur. However, we simply cannot honor everyone of every religious faith by having a day off - there is not enough time in the school year to do so. By adding Eid to the calendar, the board has set a precedent that will most certainly result in inequity.

I believe we should collect new data on all of our religious holidays to ensure that they are meeting the 15% threshold. In addition, I think we should be lobbying the state to eliminate Good Friday and Easter Monday from the list of state holidays and only include them if they meet the 15% absentee benchmark. I am a religious person myself, but I understand that in a public school system, we simply cannot allow religion to dictate operations.

That makes sense. How many are observant to take the high holidays off? Even if its ALL of them, that misses the 15% threshold.




First, the area is not 15% Jewish. Second, there are many schools where the absentee rate for students is much more than 15% on Eid.

It's about 12% Jewish. High compared to other parts of the country. Some schools are much higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A couple of years ago, when the MCPS school board removed the names of religious holidays from the school calendar, they stated that it is their policy to only include religious holidays to the calendar if the student/teacher absentee rate exceeds 15%. This is why Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur were added many years ago. This is because public school systems cannot legally call a school holiday exclusively for religious purposes - it MUST be for operational reasons.

The school board made a terrible mistake last year when they reversed that policy and added Eid to the calendar as a professional day. They admitted when they did so that they wanted to honor the diversity of our county and that the absentee data did not support it. Notice that they are currently trying to get around that mistake by suggesting that the professional day on September 12 wasn't to honor a religious holiday and that it was simply a coincidence that it occurred on EID. I would imagine that the lawyers for MCPS went bananas when the school board made that decision and that they are becoming more frustrated now that the board is considering adding Diwali and Lunar New Year, because like EID, there is not an operational reason to do so.

I think it is vitally important that we honor the religious diversity of our students in MCPS, and we do so currently by allowing students and teachers to take excused absences when religious holidays occur. However, we simply cannot honor everyone of every religious faith by having a day off - there is not enough time in the school year to do so. By adding Eid to the calendar, the board has set a precedent that will most certainly result in inequity.

I believe we should collect new data on all of our religious holidays to ensure that they are meeting the 15% threshold. In addition, I think we should be lobbying the state to eliminate Good Friday and Easter Monday from the list of state holidays and only include them if they meet the 15% absentee benchmark. I am a religious person myself, but I understand that in a public school system, we simply cannot allow religion to dictate operations.

First, the area is not 15% Jewish. Second, there are many schools where the absentee rate for students is much more than 15% on Eid.

It's about 12% Jewish. High compared to other parts of the country. Some schools are much higher.

But to me that is not enough to have TWO days off for the rest of the 88%. And most of upcountry has 0% Jewish population. The county is too big.

And I personally like Hogan's new policy because it is making schools get rid of all the nonsense days off that parents have to take PPO for.