Why Do We Judge Parents For Putting Kids At Perceived — But Unreal — Risk?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting article. Love articles that examine relative risks!

"So here's another possibility. It's not that risks to children have increased, provoking an increase in moral outrage when children are left unattended. Instead, it could be that moral attitudes toward parenting have changed, such that leaving children unsupervised is now judged morally wrong. And because it's judged morally wrong, people overestimate the risk."

http://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2016/08/22/490847797/why-do-we-judge-parents-for-putting-kids-at-perceived-but-unreal-risk?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20160822

First, I didn't click through all the links in the article, but the link to support "eight times more children are killed in parking lots than in parked cars" is completely bogus. It's a 2014 NYPost article saying that 19 to 23 kids had died in hot cars during January-August 2014, as compared to an estimated 68 struck by cars. That is not in any way support for saying that leaving your kid in the car is safer. Actually very disappointing from NPR.

That aside, I don't agree with the article's conclusions about moral attitudes toward parenting. I think people consider the need to take the risk, and have negative views of unnecessary risk. Driving is statistically really risky, but I need to get my child to school and we are not a society set up around walkable schools. So, the driving risk is not seen as that bad, compared to other options. Leaving your kid alone in a house so you can play Pokemon is an unnecessary risk, even if statistically unlikely to have a bad result. The reason we're divided about a mom leaving her kid to play in the park while the mom works is that we disagree, culturally, about access to childcare and income for a person in that mom's situation -- i.e., about her choices and the need to do that.

People also consider perceived control. Although it's false to believe you completely control your driving risk -- you can always be hit by someone else -- you do have the choice to drive safely. When your child is unattended, you have no control over the events or the aftermath, e.g., getting your child to safety or medical help.

I do think there are "recent" factors, including the constant barrage of unlikely horror stories shared over media in a way they weren't previously. I also think that culturally we (everyone, including moms) are uncomfortable with the tension between being a mother and a worker (and a person with hobbies, etc.) and so you see a lot of mommy-wars judgment and guilt over whether you are doing enough for your kid, including spending enough time supervising them and protecting them. That's the negative side of control.

Infants and toddlers are NOT the same. Infants are likely to die in a car. An older child (7 yo say) is able to open the door and get out if it gets too hot.

[Anonymous]

Love this article. I often rant to people that women aren't allowed to eat unpasteurized cheese while pregnant, but then every one of us drives home from the hospital with our newborn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I'm going to judge parents who leave their 2 year old unattended while they go off to play Pokemon Go. How stupid. Sorry.

I'm also going to judge a mom who allows her 9 year old to hang out at a public park for hours alone while mom is at work. That's too much responsibility for a 9 year old child. A 9 year old left home alone for a few hours with firm rules and boundaries in place - I'm not going to judge.

A 4 year old left alone in a car while his mom dashes in/out of a store. I'm not going to worry about. A 4 year old left playing in a fountain in front of the store while his mom window shops I'm going to judge.

This right here.

Your own biases about perceived risk is not backed up by science. Why must you judge? Why can't you just note the differences in assessment?

[Anonymous]

It's a way to but I to other people's business with the added bonus of being able to call the police. It's not remotely about helping a child it's about shaming a woman. A popular pass time through the ages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's a way to but I to other people's business with the added bonus of being able to call the police. It's not remotely about helping a child it's about shaming a woman. A popular pass time through the ages.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Born in 1970, grew up in DC. It really was just 'normal' and no one questioned that was normal that even early elementary kids played outside and wandered the neighborhood until dinner time, walked to school alone, came home alone after school (latch key) etc. The norm has changed. I think the shift started when there were some really high profile child abductions (like Adam Walsh) and there was a string of child murders in Georgia etc which changed the perceived risks and started a big national conversation (what evolved to stranger danger etc). By the time my brother - six years younger - was going through school, many fewer latch key kids.

I'm the same age and I recall learning the term kidnapped as young as four, but also recall that going to the grocery store came with the option of staying in the car while mom or dad shopped. I did it all the time, sitting in the back seat with my Merlin or a book.

This discussion is also reminding me of a season one episode of Mad Men when Don and Betty had a party at their house and another dad smacked Don's kid for running (or something that was not that big of a deal.) My husband (who was born in 66) and I goggled at hitting a kid, but recalled that it was normal and expected that any adult could discipline another kid and the "wrongdoing" would be the kid's. If someone else had to tell you how to behave, you were just an embarrassment which meant extra punishment once your parents found out about it. Everyone pretty much watched each other's kid but what was also different is that abusive behavior was normal parenting. No one could be meaner to your kid than you, and that was a-okay. I remember two brothers in my after school daycare in third grade. Both of them regularly had black eyes and bruising in the shape of a hand on other parts of their body. We all knew what was happening and no one said a word about it.

So, you know, I think the judgement is a good thing.

[Anonymous]

15:17 - I discipline other people's kids and it's no problem. I yell at the kids in my building who are screaming in the hallways, the kids throwing balls against the wall, the kids who tried to throw out garbage and made a mess on the floor, whatever.

I have a teacher voice though not a teacher, and it commands respect. Weirdly, even from adults. No joke I stopped a couple last weekend to ask where they got their daughter's outfit and the guy said "I thought we were in trouble!"

[Anonymous]

I admit to being an overprotective parent. I do not let my 7 or 9 year old go to the park alone. There is no doubt in my mind this is influenced by the Adam Walsh case and more recently Shawn Hornbeck. But also a personal experience - a 2nd grade friend of mine was kidnapped riding her bike to a park in 1975 and never found. She stopped to look at a cardboard box full of kittens and her friend rode home to ask if they could take them in. Gee I wonder who left the box there? Do you think your kid would ride past a box of kittens and not stop? I still rode my bike around the neighborhood and stayed out playing hide and seek til dark. But you can bet we all cast a much more wary eye on windowless panel vans after that.

[Anonymous]

I am amazed at the amount of judgement, mainly by other parents. I get if someone leaves a 2 year old alone, but after awhile it becomes a judgement call by the parent.

I also think a lot of parents get thier jollies by judging others. One mom I know almost giggles with glee when she gets to judge me on something. I fully admit, I tend to egg her on. I might even start making things up just to see her reaction.

I also think part of it is overprotective parents raise kids to be less independent and then they cannot fathom how anyone would leave such a dependent kid alone. They do not get that other kids the same age are independent. I admit I struggle with doing things to increase my sons independence, but I acknowledge that there are kids his age that are amazingly independent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I admit to being an overprotective parent. I do not let my 7 or 9 year old go to the park alone. There is no doubt in my mind this is influenced by the Adam Walsh case and more recently Shawn Hornbeck. But also a personal experience - a 2nd grade friend of mine was kidnapped riding her bike to a park in 1975 and never found. She stopped to look at a cardboard box full of kittens and her friend rode home to ask if they could take them in. Gee I wonder who left the box there? Do you think your kid would ride past a box of kittens and not stop? I still rode my bike around the neighborhood and stayed out playing hide and seek til dark. But you can bet we all cast a much more wary eye on windowless panel vans after that.

But the point is, instead of stopping your kid from riding thier bikes, you teach them to stay away from the dangers. Box of kittens, free candy, please help me find my lost puppy, all signs to stay far away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I admit to being an overprotective parent. I do not let my 7 or 9 year old go to the park alone. There is no doubt in my mind this is influenced by the Adam Walsh case and more recently Shawn Hornbeck. But also a personal experience - a 2nd grade friend of mine was kidnapped riding her bike to a park in 1975 and never found. She stopped to look at a cardboard box full of kittens and her friend rode home to ask if they could take them in. Gee I wonder who left the box there? Do you think your kid would ride past a box of kittens and not stop? I still rode my bike around the neighborhood and stayed out playing hide and seek til dark. But you can bet we all cast a much more wary eye on windowless panel vans after that.

But the point is, instead of stopping your kid from riding thier bikes, you teach them to stay away from the dangers. Box of kittens, free candy, please help me find my lost puppy, all signs to stay far away.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Born in 1970, grew up in DC. It really was just 'normal' and no one questioned that was normal that even early elementary kids played outside and wandered the neighborhood until dinner time, walked to school alone, came home alone after school (latch key) etc. The norm has changed. I think the shift started when there were some really high profile child abductions (like Adam Walsh) and there was a string of child murders in Georgia etc which changed the perceived risks and started a big national conversation (what evolved to stranger danger etc). By the time my brother - six years younger - was going through school, many fewer latch key kids.

I'm the same age and I recall learning the term kidnapped as young as four, but also recall that going to the grocery store came with the option of staying in the car while mom or dad shopped. I did it all the time, sitting in the back seat with my Merlin or a book.

This discussion is also reminding me of a season one episode of Mad Men when Don and Betty had a party at their house and another dad smacked Don's kid for running (or something that was not that big of a deal.) My husband (who was born in 66) and I goggled at hitting a kid, but recalled that it was normal and expected that any adult could discipline another kid and the "wrongdoing" would be the kid's. If someone else had to tell you how to behave, you were just an embarrassment which meant extra punishment once your parents found out about it. Everyone pretty much watched each other's kid but what was also different is that abusive behavior was normal parenting. No one could be meaner to your kid than you, and that was a-okay. I remember two brothers in my after school daycare in third grade. Both of them regularly had black eyes and bruising in the shape of a hand on other parts of their body. We all knew what was happening and no one said a word about it.

So, you know, I think the judgement is a good thing.

Your Merlin! Love it.