Why does working that USPTO suck so much?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my opposite sex boss will not sign off on sick leave for doctor appointments unless I tell here what the doctor appointment is about. for example.... hey larla I submitted a sick leave request for 4 hours so I can see a doctor. I saw it but you didn't fill in the comments section telling me why you are seeing the doctor so I can't approve it until you do that. Umm..... I'm having to wake up at night to pee so I need to get a prostrate exam......

You need to report this one to HR.

+1.

If she thinks you're abusing sick leave, she can likely ask for a doctor's note, but she cannot ask you for private medical information. How are there people in government that still don't get it?

If sick leave is accrued/earned, how can there be abuse?

Bc it's meant for sickness and/or dr appts -- not bc you just want a day off. NOT suggesting that that makes PP's boss correct. Who on earth would want to know about someone else's prostate exam?? If she's so strict why not just require a dr note w/o requiring a medical reason??

Do you go to the doctor EVERY time you're sick. I know I don't because sometimes it's just a cold but I feel crappy and I have sick leave so I'm going to stay home. This is ridiculous. If it's earned it should be yours to use as needed!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you're not as talented as you think you are, OP. I know a number of people who started working there right out of law school All are still there, and all are enjoying the perks now that they are several years in (remote work, etc).

Heck, I used to hang out and play video games until like 2-3am with the guys I know who work there. Then again, they are exceptionally smart and talented people. So again, maybe you aren't as hot as you think you are.

No, as you know, it varies by unit, it varies by group. Lots of managers are bad, some are good. Lots of art units have absurd quota systems, some have very generous ones. And you can't pick which one you get, it's just luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're not as talented as you think you are, OP. I know a number of people who started working there right out of law school All are still there, and all are enjoying the perks now that they are several years in (remote work, etc).

Heck, I used to hang out and play video games until like 2-3am with the guys I know who work there. Then again, they are exceptionally smart and talented people. So again, maybe you aren't as hot as you think you are.

No, as you know, it varies by unit, it varies by group. Lots of managers are bad, some are good. Lots of art units have absurd quota systems, some have very generous ones. And you can't pick which one you get, it's just luck.

I know this sounds bad but can't you just turn in mediocre work to meet the quota?

Also, I heard somewhere that you can get overtime pay at the USPTO. Any truth to that?

[Anonymous]

One of the worst places i ever work. but it depends on the mind set of the person. Some people like this type of job. Paper pushing job to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:my opposite sex boss will not sign off on sick leave for doctor appointments unless I tell here what the doctor appointment is about. for example.... hey larla I submitted a sick leave request for 4 hours so I can see a doctor. I saw it but you didn't fill in the comments section telling me why you are seeing the doctor so I can't approve it until you do that. Umm..... I'm having to wake up at night to pee so I need to get a prostrate exam......

You need to report this one to HR.

+1.

If she thinks you're abusing sick leave, she can likely ask for a doctor's note, but she cannot ask you for private medical information. How are there people in government that still don't get it?

If sick leave is accrued/earned, how can there be abuse?

Bc it's meant for sickness and/or dr appts -- not bc you just want a day off. NOT suggesting that that makes PP's boss correct. Who on earth would want to know about someone else's prostate exam?? If she's so strict why not just require a dr note w/o requiring a medical reason??

Do you go to the doctor EVERY time you're sick. I know I don't because sometimes it's just a cold but I feel crappy and I have sick leave so I'm going to stay home. This is ridiculous. If it's earned it should be yours to use as needed!!!

I believe at our agency, they have the right to ask for a doctor's note if you take more than 3 days sick leave. But I doubt they would bother absent some reason to think you are abusing it. Most of us also wouldn't usually take time off just because we feel kind of crappy, and certainly wouldn't say just because we have the time we will find any old excuse to use it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the worst places i ever work. but it depends on the mind set of the person. Some people like this type of job. Paper pushing job to me.

How long did you last and what are you doing now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you're not as talented as you think you are, OP. I know a number of people who started working there right out of law school All are still there, and all are enjoying the perks now that they are several years in (remote work, etc).

Heck, I used to hang out and play video games until like 2-3am with the guys I know who work there. Then again, they are exceptionally smart and talented people. So again, maybe you aren't as hot as you think you are.

ummm... first, I never said I was "hot" or super talented in any way. What I said what working that USPTO sucks in comparison to my previous private sector jobs. Because your post comes off as insulting I can only assume you are trolling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're not as talented as you think you are, OP. I know a number of people who started working there right out of law school All are still there, and all are enjoying the perks now that they are several years in (remote work, etc).

Heck, I used to hang out and play video games until like 2-3am with the guys I know who work there. Then again, they are exceptionally smart and talented people. So again, maybe you aren't as hot as you think you are.

No, as you know, it varies by unit, it varies by group. Lots of managers are bad, some are good. Lots of art units have absurd quota systems, some have very generous ones. And you can't pick which one you get, it's just luck.

I know this sounds bad but can't you just turn in mediocre work to meet the quota?

Also, I heard somewhere that you can get overtime pay at the USPTO. Any truth to that?[/quote]


Here is how pay at the USPTO works....

We collect "points" during the bi-week and essentially trade them in at the end of the bi-week for our pay.
Here is how the scam works.....


We have a list of assigned activities. Each activity is work a certain number of "points" (most activities are worth only some fraction of a point or no points at all). The activities are timed and have a hard deadline. Each GS level has a progressively higher number of points they must collect each bi-week. For example.... an appeal = .25 points. An equivalence can be drawn between the points assigned to a task and the number of hours they expect you to work in order to finish the task... for example appeal = .25 points = less than .5 work days (less than 4 hours). What this means is that we are compensated for less than 4 hours of work even if the task takes us 8 hours. This can easily happen when doing examining because the lawyers will reply with pages (think 30, 40, 50 pages) of arguments and we are required to respond in detail to each argument. Plus do the search and re-write the Office action.

So... is there overtime?? YES.... but it is conditional.

If an Examiner can collect the required number of points during the bi-week AND he/she spends extra time at the Office collecting points above and beyond those which are required then he can in theory ask to be compensated for the extra points he/she has collected.

This is very much just like working in a textile mill 150 years ago and being paid a penny for each shirt or shoe or sock you sew.

The problem is that the work of examining is a not akin to a wrote task such a sewing a shirt. Examining is a combination of legal, scientific, and political (yes... cause you got to work with reviewers). Each case requires a unique evaluation and each Office action is different (even though they all have to address the same body of law). This means that everything takes a different amount of time to complete.... UNLESS you really do crap work.


Because of how the system is structured I believe that promotes wage theft. They have a point floor below which we are told will result in our being fired for not meeting and then they compensate us for only a fraction of the amount of time it takes to do the work.

From what I've seen in my AU examiners take vacation and work those days off in order to meet their quota. Not always but often. I've seen senior examiners do the following... 1. request to go part time in order just to keep up with their production (this gets their quota dropped.... but they still are working 40+ hours even though the Office is only paying them for 32)... 2. trading vacation time. 3. I've seen one senior examiner frequently trade sick leave just to lower his quote requirement.

[Anonymous]

I am a bit surprised at these gloom and doom stories. I know several mid thirties folk who are at GA 15 level, work from home all the time, have side jobs. Not sure how they pull it off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a bit surprised at these gloom and doom stories. I know several mid thirties folk who are at GA 15 level, work from home all the time, have side jobs. Not sure how they pull it off.

GS15 = doesn't do examining.... there is a layer of non-production GS-15 types at the PTO that don't do anything but go to meetings and make presentations and things of that nature. The is a slice at the top that live very nicely doing nothing much. Those jobs are hard to come by.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a bit surprised at these gloom and doom stories. I know several mid thirties folk who are at GA 15 level, work from home all the time, have side jobs. Not sure how they pull it off.

GS15 = doesn't do examining.... there is a layer of non-production GS-15 types at the PTO that don't do anything but go to meetings and make presentations and things of that nature. The is a slice at the top that live very nicely doing nothing much. Those jobs are hard to come by.

Interesting, so GS15 is just managerial. This person went to GS15 in about 6 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a bit surprised at these gloom and doom stories. I know several mid thirties folk who are at GA 15 level, work from home all the time, have side jobs. Not sure how they pull it off.

GS15 = doesn't do examining.... there is a layer of non-production GS-15 types at the PTO that don't do anything but go to meetings and make presentations and things of that nature. The is a slice at the top that live very nicely doing nothing much. Those jobs are hard to come by.

Is it normal to still be a 13 patent examiner after 15 years? I have an acquaintance who is, and it struck me as a place where you hit a ceiling at some point. Are 14 s realistic to expect with that level of experience? I know I got my 15 relatively fast at another agency, so have little reference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're not as talented as you think you are, OP. I know a number of people who started working there right out of law school All are still there, and all are enjoying the perks now that they are several years in (remote work, etc).

Heck, I used to hang out and play video games until like 2-3am with the guys I know who work there. Then again, they are exceptionally smart and talented people. So again, maybe you aren't as hot as you think you are.

No, as you know, it varies by unit, it varies by group. Lots of managers are bad, some are good. Lots of art units have absurd quota systems, some have very generous ones. And you can't pick which one you get, it's just luck.

I know this sounds bad but can't you just turn in mediocre work to meet the quota?

Also, I heard somewhere that you can get overtime pay at the USPTO. Any truth to that?[/quote]


Here is how pay at the USPTO works....

We collect "points" during the bi-week and essentially trade them in at the end of the bi-week for our pay.
Here is how the scam works.....


We have a list of assigned activities. Each activity is work a certain number of "points" (most activities are worth only some fraction of a point or no points at all). The activities are timed and have a hard deadline. Each GS level has a progressively higher number of points they must collect each bi-week. For example.... an appeal = .25 points. An equivalence can be drawn between the points assigned to a task and the number of hours they expect you to work in order to finish the task... for example appeal = .25 points = less than .5 work days (less than 4 hours). What this means is that we are compensated for less than 4 hours of work even if the task takes us 8 hours. This can easily happen when doing examining because the lawyers will reply with pages (think 30, 40, 50 pages) of arguments and we are required to respond in detail to each argument. Plus do the search and re-write the Office action.

So... is there overtime?? YES.... but it is conditional.

If an Examiner can collect the required number of points during the bi-week AND he/she spends extra time at the Office collecting points above and beyond those which are required then he can in theory ask to be compensated for the extra points he/she has collected.

This is very much just like working in a textile mill 150 years ago and being paid a penny for each shirt or shoe or sock you sew.

The problem is that the work of examining is a not akin to a wrote task such a sewing a shirt. Examining is a combination of legal, scientific, and political (yes... cause you got to work with reviewers). Each case requires a unique evaluation and each Office action is different (even though they all have to address the same body of law). This means that everything takes a different amount of time to complete.... UNLESS you really do crap work.


Because of how the system is structured I believe that promotes wage theft. They have a point floor below which we are told will result in our being fired for not meeting and then they compensate us for only a fraction of the amount of time it takes to do the work.

From what I've seen in my AU examiners take vacation and work those days off in order to meet their quota. Not always but often. I've seen senior examiners do the following... 1. request to go part time in order just to keep up with their production (this gets their quota dropped.... but they still are working 40+ hours even though the Office is only paying them for 32)... 2. trading vacation time. 3. I've seen one senior examiner frequently trade sick leave just to lower his quote requirement.

This post made me sad, especially the part about people trading vacation time and sick days just to meet the quotas. Doesn't the union do anything over there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP it looks like you are on the Patent side. Don't paint the entire USPTO with the same broad brush. I've been an attorney on the trademark side for 19 years, the last 12 from home. I work 40 hours a week and get my work done easily. I work with great, helpful coworkers, my boss leaves me alone and trusts me to get my work done and I am represented by a union that is very proactive. It isn't perfect, but I feel so lucky to have this job every day. (I'm on leave right now lest anyone call me out on my use of the govt computer during work hours).

If you have so many issues, you need to talk to your POPA reps.

I've been trying to get hired on the trademark side for years now. Please, what is it that they are looking for in candidates? I'd really like to know.

[Anonymous]

...sucked for me too. I had a terrible supervisor who waited until the end of 2nd bi-week to review cases i turned in the 1st bi-week. I worked 7 days a week and didn't get compensated. The production numbers were a joke. Telecommuting co-workers made it hard to develop relationships and team cohesion with