DOJ, AUSA at large metro city - criminal vs. DOJ Main, Trial Lawyer - Fraud task force

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You must be talking about the DC USAO. It's the only one that has the 18-month initial rotation. Between that and Fraud, I'm not sure you're going to notice that much of a difference quality of life wise. Both carry long hours, and Fraud usually involves a lot of travel. You have found two government jobs that aren't really much better than BigLaw in terms of hours. The difference is that the work is one million times more interesting and engrossing than the typical BigLaw associate or junior partner's experience. I had the same choice as you a few year's back and chose the USAO over Fraud, but I have lots of friends who have done both and friends who are still at Fraud.

Hands down, you will get way, way more trial experience in any USAO than at Fraud, but it's not necessarily trial experience that will translate to exit opportunities. Tell me what you are you interested in doing after DOJ, and I can better advise on which job will position you better.

No, not DC. West coast. Was thinking of working long term and then to a judgeship, even if state. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

OP - I work in DOJ. What were you offered ($$) or steps for both positions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You must be talking about the DC USAO. It's the only one that has the 18-month initial rotation. Between that and Fraud, I'm not sure you're going to notice that much of a difference quality of life wise. Both carry long hours, and Fraud usually involves a lot of travel. You have found two government jobs that aren't really much better than BigLaw in terms of hours. The difference is that the work is one million times more interesting and engrossing than the typical BigLaw associate or junior partner's experience. I had the same choice as you a few year's back and chose the USAO over Fraud, but I have lots of friends who have done both and friends who are still at Fraud.

Hands down, you will get way, way more trial experience in any USAO than at Fraud, but it's not necessarily trial experience that will translate to exit opportunities. Tell me what you are you interested in doing after DOJ, and I can better advise on which job will position you better.

No, not DC. West coast. Was thinking of working long term and then to a judgeship, even if state. Thanks!

I understand if you don't want to be more specific about what office you're considering, but be wary of C.D. Cal. It does not have a good reputation, either as a place to work or a place with good AUSAs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Main Justice goes to trial just not as often. They are civil litigators usually. AUSAs do the criminal work (again usually IME).

Everything - and I mean EVERYTHING - depends on your manager.

Antitrust Division is an exception to this. We have both civil AND criminal litigators

Not sure if other components at DOJ have criminal litigators. We may be unique. Our criminal attorneys don't see much courtroom action. Maybe once a year at best. They do a lot of investigative work.

I think most every division except for civil has criminal litigators (most of whom go to trial more often than antitrust folks, I suspect. . .).

In addition to the Criminal Division, I know that Tax, Civil Rights, and ENRD have at least some criminal litigators. And all three of those Divisions have both criminal and civil litigators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You must be talking about the DC USAO. It's the only one that has the 18-month initial rotation. Between that and Fraud, I'm not sure you're going to notice that much of a difference quality of life wise. Both carry long hours, and Fraud usually involves a lot of travel. You have found two government jobs that aren't really much better than BigLaw in terms of hours. The difference is that the work is one million times more interesting and engrossing than the typical BigLaw associate or junior partner's experience. I had the same choice as you a few year's back and chose the USAO over Fraud, but I have lots of friends who have done both and friends who are still at Fraud.

Hands down, you will get way, way more trial experience in any USAO than at Fraud, but it's not necessarily trial experience that will translate to exit opportunities. Tell me what you are you interested in doing after DOJ, and I can better advise on which job will position you better.

No, not DC. West coast. Was thinking of working long term and then to a judgeship, even if state. Thanks!

If you want to be a judge, I'd recommend the USAO, which will allow you to network with the local and state bar. You're likely to get "bigger" cases at Main, and more cases at the USAO. Definitely more travel at Main.

[Anonymous]

I agree with basically any AUSA if you want to be a judge in that area. Planning your career around becoming a judge seems a bit like a gamble, but an AUSA better fits the classic profile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You must be talking about the DC USAO. It's the only one that has the 18-month initial rotation. Between that and Fraud, I'm not sure you're going to notice that much of a difference quality of life wise. Both carry long hours, and Fraud usually involves a lot of travel. You have found two government jobs that aren't really much better than BigLaw in terms of hours. The difference is that the work is one million times more interesting and engrossing than the typical BigLaw associate or junior partner's experience. I had the same choice as you a few year's back and chose the USAO over Fraud, but I have lots of friends who have done both and friends who are still at Fraud.

Hands down, you will get way, way more trial experience in any USAO than at Fraud, but it's not necessarily trial experience that will translate to exit opportunities. Tell me what you are you interested in doing after DOJ, and I can better advise on which job will position you better.

No, not DC. West coast. Was thinking of working long term and then to a judgeship, even if state. Thanks!

I understand if you don't want to be more specific about what office you're considering, but be wary of C.D. Cal. It does not have a good reputation, either as a place to work or a place with good AUSAs.

NP here -- any other intel on C.D. Cal. I'm not applying for a few yrs but have always considered taking a shot at the LA area. Is it a reputation problem re type of work? Or the work environment? Exit opportunities? Or something else altogether.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You must be talking about the DC USAO. It's the only one that has the 18-month initial rotation. Between that and Fraud, I'm not sure you're going to notice that much of a difference quality of life wise. Both carry long hours, and Fraud usually involves a lot of travel. You have found two government jobs that aren't really much better than BigLaw in terms of hours. The difference is that the work is one million times more interesting and engrossing than the typical BigLaw associate or junior partner's experience. I had the same choice as you a few year's back and chose the USAO over Fraud, but I have lots of friends who have done both and friends who are still at Fraud.

Hands down, you will get way, way more trial experience in any USAO than at Fraud, but it's not necessarily trial experience that will translate to exit opportunities. Tell me what you are you interested in doing after DOJ, and I can better advise on which job will position you better.

No, not DC. West coast. Was thinking of working long term and then to a judgeship, even if state. Thanks!

I understand if you don't want to be more specific about what office you're considering, but be wary of C.D. Cal. It does not have a good reputation, either as a place to work or a place with good AUSAs.

NP here -- any other intel on C.D. Cal. I'm not applying for a few yrs but have always considered taking a shot at the LA area. Is it a reputation problem re type of work? Or the work environment? Exit opportunities? Or something else altogether.

NP here too. I'm interested in hearing about C.D. Cal. too. It's a huge office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You must be talking about the DC USAO. It's the only one that has the 18-month initial rotation. Between that and Fraud, I'm not sure you're going to notice that much of a difference quality of life wise. Both carry long hours, and Fraud usually involves a lot of travel. You have found two government jobs that aren't really much better than BigLaw in terms of hours. The difference is that the work is one million times more interesting and engrossing than the typical BigLaw associate or junior partner's experience. I had the same choice as you a few year's back and chose the USAO over Fraud, but I have lots of friends who have done both and friends who are still at Fraud.

Hands down, you will get way, way more trial experience in any USAO than at Fraud, but it's not necessarily trial experience that will translate to exit opportunities. Tell me what you are you interested in doing after DOJ, and I can better advise on which job will position you better.

No, not DC. West coast. Was thinking of working long term and then to a judgeship, even if state. Thanks!

I understand if you don't want to be more specific about what office you're considering, but be wary of C.D. Cal. It does not have a good reputation, either as a place to work or a place with good AUSAs.

NP here -- any other intel on C.D. Cal. I'm not applying for a few yrs but have always considered taking a shot at the LA area. Is it a reputation problem re type of work? Or the work environment? Exit opportunities? Or something else altogether.

It's just not a very well run office and doesn't seem to attract the talent level that you would expect in a major city. I think maybe it's just not considered as prestigious a job in places other than the East Coast. I work with AUSAs all across the country, and I go out of my way to avoid bringing cases to C.D. Cal. because every time I have it has been mishandled in some way.

[Anonymous]

I was an AUSA in a big, prestigious, office and also spent a lot of time at main justice in criminal division and other places. I would recommend AUSA experience at some point - crim division only is sometimes discounted (with the exception of the FCPA folks),even on TF. Either is good, if you are good and aggressive, but for the average experience i think an AUSA experience is premier (FWIW).

[Anonymous]

I assume you're weighing your options between AUSA and one of those medicaid fraud strike force positions that's kind of a hybrid fraud/USAO thing. I'd take AUSA in a heartbeat. Youll try more cases and get experience across a wide array of areas, instead of focusing on one particular fairly uninteresting crime. Those healthcare fraud gigs are the black sheep of the fraud section.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I assume you're weighing your options between AUSA and one of those medicaid fraud strike force positions that's kind of a hybrid fraud/USAO thing. I'd take AUSA in a heartbeat. Youll try more cases and get experience across a wide array of areas, instead of focusing on one particular fairly uninteresting crime. Those healthcare fraud gigs are the black sheep of the fraud section.

Not the OP but wanted to bump this thread. Anyone else have insights on the Healthcare Fraud lawyers in the satellite offices? I specifically want to know their work-life balance and travel obligations.