Stats on polic shootings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do not need any skill at statistics to see that if twice as many white people as black people are killed by officers but there are five times as many white people as black people, that black people are killed at a disproportionate rate. That's simple math.

But it IS proportional to the crime rate for each race. When you adjust for that, it's an equal number of white people as black people being killed. I looked this up the other day but don't know what to say about it. Not exactly the type of thing you put on facebook when you and a large chunk of your friends are liberal.

This. It is proportionate. And if slightly disproportionate, it's debatable how significantly. What does that mean? It means, as another pp said, Everyone should be concerned. I'd like to see most major metropolitan police departments in US step up and state that they are going to address unjustified force, do it, and then come back and show us the training they have done.

The other thing to keep in mind. It's 1,000 people. Two sides to this. That 1,000 fathers, brothers, sisters, friends. Who have 1,000 jobs and were contributing to society, and even if some were doing bad stuff, had the potential to change. They're in heaven now, and it was not their time.

But it's 1000. Should police go through more training and get help so this goes down to 800? Yes. Should the media and the public call it out? Yes. But let's not get in a tizzy that 1000 people are gone. When leading causes of death kill far greater.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I also think the total statistics probably mask a problem that is particularly abhorrent to the black community, which is the overwhelming feeling that someone like Castile would not be dead if he were white, because not only did he handle himself correctly, he went above and beyond, alerting the officer to the gun, which he had no legal obligation to do. I think this type of fact pattern is rare enough to get lost in the larger statistics, but awful enough to still infuriate the affected community.

That may be true, or it may not be. Didn't that account come from his girlfriend? As we learned in Ferguson, the first reports from participants ("hands up, don't shoot") can be self-serving and false.

[Anonymous]

To save black lives, the only solution is to give inner city youth jobs or schools to go to. It's a tough problem, generational problem.

I am fine with tax increase to pay them go to schools in the summer or jobs, but not on welfare. Blaming cops is not the answer. We are all human beings. Our brain instinctively creates bias. Absolutely cops have bias against blacks whether consciously or unconsciously. We all do. But until the crime rate from blacks going down, no political correctness campaign is going to change how human brain functions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

But it IS proportional to the crime rate for each race. When you adjust for that, it's an equal number of white people as black people being killed. I looked this up the other day but don't know what to say about it. Not exactly the type of thing you put on facebook when you and a large chunk of your friends are liberal.

This is the crux of the matter and it casts doubt on the facile "racist cop" narrative people propagate for various reasons (ratings, political gain, ignorance).

For example, though blacks are just 13.2% of the population (and black men 16-30 an even smaller percentage),

"According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with whites [ed: which includes Hispanics] 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than whites, and the victim rate 6 times higher. Most homicides were intraracial, with 84% of white victims killed by whites, and 93% of black victims killed by blacks" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#Homicide)

For whatever reason, more likely to offend -- and anecdotally, more likely to resist.

Police interact with the people committing crimes, white, black, or purple. And ironically, when police stand down, murders go up, which means more black men die.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But it IS proportional to the crime rate for each race. When you adjust for that, it's an equal number of white people as black people being killed. I looked this up the other day but don't know what to say about it. Not exactly the type of thing you put on facebook when you and a large chunk of your friends are liberal.

This is the crux of the matter and it casts doubt on the facile "racist cop" narrative people propagate for various reasons (ratings, political gain, ignorance).

For example, though blacks are just 13.2% of the population (and black men 16-30 an even smaller percentage),

"According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with whites [ed: which includes Hispanics] 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than whites, and the victim rate 6 times higher. Most homicides were intraracial, with 84% of white victims killed by whites, and 93% of black victims killed by blacks" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#Homicide)

For whatever reason, more likely to offend -- and anecdotally, more likely to resist.

Police interact with the people committing crimes, white, black, or purple. And ironically, when police stand down, murders go up, which means more black men die.

I wish this were a more prominent part of the conversation. It's important and it's something that we need to work to fix. I don't feel comfortable talking about it on FB and I'm probably not alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But it IS proportional to the crime rate for each race. When you adjust for that, it's an equal number of white people as black people being killed. I looked this up the other day but don't know what to say about it. Not exactly the type of thing you put on facebook when you and a large chunk of your friends are liberal.

This is the crux of the matter and it casts doubt on the facile "racist cop" narrative people propagate for various reasons (ratings, political gain, ignorance).

For example, though blacks are just 13.2% of the population (and black men 16-30 an even smaller percentage),

"According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with whites [ed: which includes Hispanics] 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than whites, and the victim rate 6 times higher. Most homicides were intraracial, with 84% of white victims killed by whites, and 93% of black victims killed by blacks" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#Homicide)

For whatever reason, more likely to offend -- and anecdotally, more likely to resist.

Police interact with the people committing crimes, white, black, or purple. And ironically, when police stand down, murders go up, which means more black men die.

Clearly that is wrong. The number of officer involved shootings went up since Ferguson. So no one is standing down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, is it that police killing white people is not sensational, so it isn't picked up by media or is it that those incidents were deemed justified? I'm trying to get a handle on this b/c it's all so scary and sad.

For one, no police killing should be deemed sensational . However if you don't hear about a Caucasian being killed by a cop on the news , it's simply because Caucasian don't care , call it me , myself and I syndrome . AAs on the other hand , because of this country's history go batshit mad when a Caucasian cop has been accused of killing an AA. In today's digital world , stuff like that quickly goes viral amongst AAs which then leads to the media chiming only after the issue has already spread on the four corners of the country . The media doesn't purposely go looking for these stories

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I also think the total statistics probably mask a problem that is particularly abhorrent to the black community, which is the overwhelming feeling that someone like Castile would not be dead if he were white, because not only did he handle himself correctly, he went above and beyond, alerting the officer to the gun, which he had no legal obligation to do. I think this type of fact pattern is rare enough to get lost in the larger statistics, but awful enough to still infuriate the affected community.

That may be true, or it may not be. Didn't that account come from his girlfriend? As we learned in Ferguson, the first reports from participants ("hands up, don't shoot") can be self-serving and false.

FFS, watch this video of a black man shot in SC - lucky to survive - by a cop, who FIRST asked him to produce his docs, THEN SHOT him when the guy followed his orders.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/25/sean-groubert-fired-arrested_n_5879694.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Everyone should be concerned. EVERYONE. The Black Lives Matter people are bringing this issue to the attention of the public and not letting anyone forget it. Good for them. But EVERYONE should be concerned. The police basically get to shoot who they want to and get away with it. If they don't like you, they get to shoot you. That's not how America is supposed to work. Who cares if the people getting shot are black, white or hispanic? They're Americans being shot by American police. Unreal.

Totally agree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do not need any skill at statistics to see that if twice as many white people as black people are killed by officers but there are five times as many white people as black people, that black people are killed at a disproportionate rate. That's simple math.

But it IS proportional to the crime rate for each race. When you adjust for that, it's an equal number of white people as black people being killed. I looked this up the other day but don't know what to say about it. Not exactly the type of thing you put on facebook when you and a large chunk of your friends are liberal.

Actually that's not true; blacks are killed at rates lower than you would expect based on the different crime rates. Blacks are ~30% of the people killed but commit 40-50% of violent crimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But it IS proportional to the crime rate for each race. When you adjust for that, it's an equal number of white people as black people being killed. I looked this up the other day but don't know what to say about it. Not exactly the type of thing you put on facebook when you and a large chunk of your friends are liberal.

This is the crux of the matter and it casts doubt on the facile "racist cop" narrative people propagate for various reasons (ratings, political gain, ignorance).

For example, though blacks are just 13.2% of the population (and black men 16-30 an even smaller percentage),

"According to the US Department of Justice, blacks accounted for 52.5% of homicide offenders from 1980 to 2008, with whites [ed: which includes Hispanics] 45.3% and "Other" 2.2%. The offending rate for blacks was almost 8 times higher than whites, and the victim rate 6 times higher. Most homicides were intraracial, with 84% of white victims killed by whites, and 93% of black victims killed by blacks" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States#Homicide)

For whatever reason, more likely to offend -- and anecdotally, more likely to resist.

Police interact with the people committing crimes, white, black, or purple. And ironically, when police stand down, murders go up, which means more black men die.

Clearly that is wrong. The number of officer involved shootings went up since Ferguson. So no one is standing down.

Well, the crime rate went up significantly as well. It's possible that both are true; police are standing down more, but because of the increase in violent crime there are still more shootings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone should be concerned. EVERYONE. The Black Lives Matter people are bringing this issue to the attention of the public and not letting anyone forget it. Good for them. But EVERYONE should be concerned. The police basically get to shoot who they want to and get away with it. If they don't like you, they get to shoot you. That's not how America is supposed to work. Who cares if the people getting shot are black, white or hispanic? They're Americans being shot by American police. Unreal.

Totally agree

I think this demonstration is enlightening....

[Anonymous]

I don't care about the statistics. The videos showing police shooting people are fucked up, whether the person being murdered by the police are black or white or murdered in proportion to the population or the percentage of their race who commit crimes or BLAH BLAH BLAH.

THE POLICE ARE MURDERING AMERICAN CITIZENS!!!!! It's NOT OKAY not matter WHAT the races involved are!! Come on, people -- this is America, not ISIS territory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To save black lives, the only solution is to give inner city youth jobs or schools to go to. It's a tough problem, generational problem.

I am fine with tax increase to pay them go to schools in the summer or jobs, but not on welfare. Blaming cops is not the answer. We are all human beings. Our brain instinctively creates bias. Absolutely cops have bias against blacks whether consciously or unconsciously. We all do. But until the crime rate from blacks going down, no political correctness campaign is going to change how human brain functions.

I do not see it as a generational problem, but one caused by the way society is built.
Poorer areas are more densely populated, local schools are poorly funded because of lower property taxes.
The local school does not equip the kids for college (that they do not have funds to go to anyway), but for permanent low wage workers part time unemployed careers

you get what you pay for, and if daddy is not rich, then that is your lot in life

[Anonymous]

don't care about the statistics. The videos showing police shooting people are fucked up, whether the person being murdered by the police are black or white or murdered in proportion to the population or the percentage of their race who commit crimes or BLAH BLAH BLAH.

THE POLICE ARE MURDERING AMERICAN CITIZENS!!!!! It's NOT OKAY not matter WHAT the races involved are!! Come on, people -- this is America, not ISIS territory.

That is a ridiculous statement. There are a miniscule number of very bad actors. There are a vast, vast, vast majority who are out there protecting us. If you cannot see that, it is a serious problem and makes you sound unbalanced. Five policemen are dead by someone who expressed similar views. Watch what you think.

Let the justice system handle the bad actors. It may not be perfect, but, for the most part--it works.