Law Suit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I'm the slacker who called in April wondering about K orientation to find out that I had just missed it.

You should probably sue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Personally I don't understand this lack of "outreach" aspect. Everyone has equal access to the information. Do they expect a personal invitation?

I understand the outreach component of his argument but I'm not convinced any certain group is effected by this more than others. I mention my childe being in the Immersion program all the time and get responses from "why", to "I didn't know about that" from most people in general. I do think that a certain sub population in the Silver Spring/ Takoma Park area passes this info around so its more common knowledge amongst this group but its partially due to that being the location of most of the programs.

I will say its fairly easy to get into an immersion program if you don't care about the language and/or school of attendance if you are patient. One of our kids has been accepted to 5 slots.

[Anonymous]

Although I think the lawsuit is inappropriately brought by the plaintiff -- simply because there are people who could be better plaintiffs than this one -- anything that can shine light on how the selection process works for the all of the choice programs is helpful.

For example, my three kids all applied to the French Immersion program at Sligo Creek ES when eligible. None of the three kids made it into the program. None of the kids received a lottery number higher than 75 (two of them received numbers in the low to mid 100's). We applied in person for all three on the first available day MCPS accepted applications. Two of the three even reapplied for first grade admissions; we gave up on reapplying for the third. Yes, I understand how non-preferential lotteries work. Yes, I know that it is possible to go 0/3 or in our case 0/5 since two reapplied in the second year. However, it is difficult to accept the outcome when none of the kids made it into the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Although I think the lawsuit is inappropriately brought by the plaintiff -- simply because there are people who could be better plaintiffs than this one -- anything that can shine light on how the selection process works for the all of the choice programs is helpful.

For example, my three kids all applied to the French Immersion program at Sligo Creek ES when eligible. None of the three kids made it into the program. None of the kids received a lottery number higher than 75 (two of them received numbers in the low to mid 100's). We applied in person for all three on the first available day MCPS accepted applications. Two of the three even reapplied for first grade admissions; we gave up on reapplying for the third. Yes, I understand how non-preferential lotteries work. Yes, I know that it is possible to go 0/3 or in our case 0/5 since two reapplied in the second year. However, it is difficult to accept the outcome when none of the kids made it into the program.

Just curious... Did you only check Sligo Creek or did you apply for other programs?

[Anonymous]

I have bought about 10 power ball tickets in my life. I have never won. Other people have. It is unfair!

[Anonymous]

Only applied to Sligo. The only other French program is Maryvale. We would have to provide own transportation because would be out of boundaries for program. Children could have applied for Spanish program not interested as they have French-speaking relatives.

[Anonymous]

Ha, ha about winning Powerball. A victory in Powerball should not be equated to getting into an academic program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Although I think the lawsuit is inappropriately brought by the plaintiff -- simply because there are people who could be better plaintiffs than this one -- anything that can shine light on how the selection process works for the all of the choice programs is helpful.

For example, my three kids all applied to the French Immersion program at Sligo Creek ES when eligible. None of the three kids made it into the program. None of the kids received a lottery number higher than 75 (two of them received numbers in the low to mid 100's). We applied in person for all three on the first available day MCPS accepted applications. Two of the three even reapplied for first grade admissions; we gave up on reapplying for the third. Yes, I understand how non-preferential lotteries work. Yes, I know that it is possible to go 0/3 or in our case 0/5 since two reapplied in the second year. However, it is difficult to accept the outcome when none of the kids made it into the program.

PP, are you a lawyer? If so, you need to go back to law school for a refresher.

Please, people, it's not a "lawsuit". Jawando is not a "plaintiff". Therefore his suitability as a "plaintiff" is not at issue at all. No judge or jury will decide this case and Jawando's standing, jurisdiction, damages suffered, etc. are not at issue.

Instead, he has filed a civil rights complaint with the Department of Education's Office of Civil Rights. See their complaint process page here --http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/howto.html

ANYONE can file a complaint, "Anyone who believes that an education institution that receives federal financial assistance has discriminated against someone on the basis of race, color, national origin, sex, disability or age, or who believes that a public elementary or secondary school, or state or local education agency has violated the Boy Scouts of America Equal Access Act, may file a complaint. The person or organization filing the complaint need not be a victim of the alleged discrimination but may complain on behalf of another person or group."

This is one of many "due process" options available to families who believe that either they have directly suffered discrimination OR they have witnessed discrimination OR believe a school process is discriminatory. Due process options are -- file a lawsuit, file an OCR complaint, file a state complaint, file a complaint within MCPS, ask for mediation. Depending on your claim, you might choose one avenue over another.

OCR investigates the complaint and, if the school system is found to have violated civil rights, usually some kind of remedy is established by OCR and imposed on the school system. Sometimes this can be a one-time remedy. Sometimes it is a systemic remedy (long-term oversight, retraining of personnel or changes in a process to try to get rid of the discrimination).

Also, the complaint is not about the "unfairness" of not winning a lottery. Jawondo is not complaining about the lottery process. He is complaining that the school system does not do enough to make poor and minority students aware of these special opportunities in time to consider applying. The fact that he found out at the last minute, tends anecdotally to support his allegation. Now it is up to OCR to look at the way MCPS promotes these opportunities and decide if they do so in a non-discriminatory way. The fact that he managed to apply, was offered a partial immersion program and decided to go elsewhere has little bearing on the allegation that poor and minority students are treated in a way that makes them less likely to apply to these programs and thus the system is discriminating against them.

[Anonymous]

Now it is up to OCR to look at the way MCPS promotes these opportunities and decide if they do so in a non-discriminatory way.

Slacker K orientation misser PP here. My question is, does MCPS "promote these opportunities" at all and how does the complaint propose that they should promote them? They're on their website. Now that my kids are older and in MCPS I get mailers and robocalls about the HGCs, magnet middle school programs, voluntary summer school, Thomas Edison and other special programs. But I never heard anything about the immersion programs that begin at K, presumably because MCPS doesn't have a comprehensive list of the contact information for the parents of every 4-year-old in the county.

[Anonymous]

How MCPS know you have 4 years old at home when you haven't registered your kid in MCPS system?

[Anonymous]

MCPS can be doing a lot to reach out to communities with young minority children. Buying a NAEYC list for the county and mailing every daycare program with fliers about MCPS K registration and programs. Informing all Head Start parents about opportunities. Working thru community organizations like churches or food pantries or whatever to inform the community. Putting fliers up at county pools or playgrounds or whatever. Or working with doctors networks to hand out school fliers along with 4-year immunizations.

But, the idea that the county has no way to do any outreach before you voluntarily show up at the door in K is a little bit ridiculous and lazy. I expect more from my government.

The truth is that these immersion programs, like many other special programs in MCPS, were set up initially as "pull" forms of integration. That is to say, they were programs that would appeal to white parents (immersion, gifted centers, special math and science instruction) who would be interested enough in them to apply and send their kids to schools that were high minority and high poverty schools. At the time, MCPS knew that de-segregating schools was a legal obligation, but they also knew that county-wide forced busing (i.e. "push" integration) was unlikely to be successful (see Boston and Prince William, VA).

There are many reasons why this kind of integration isn't actually that desirable today. The magnet programs may draw a more diverse group of parents, but that doesn't necessarily benefit the home school students as it was initially thought they would. And, of course, today we realize that parents of poor and minority children should have access to these programs as well.

Particularly when it comes to immersion, IMO, the county should be leveraging it's high ESOL and native Spanish-speaking population to create a different kind of immersion -- dual immersion (instead of full or partial) programs. Dual immersion is the format at schools like Washington International School. Dual immersion means classes of equal parts native English and Spanish speakers, each of whom are expected to become fully fluent in the other language. So, native Spanish speakers (of which MoCo has plenty) are paired with native English speakers, in an alternating Spanish/English instructional pattern, with explicit instruction in both English and Spanish reading and writing. Dual immersion has been shown to be successful for ESOL and native English speakers alike.

But, in MCPS, we never developed our immersion this way, because it was explicitly set up to appeal to white, native English speakers.

Maybe it's time to fix that.

[Anonymous]

NAEYC is a small fraction of daycares and usually the highest cost ones...but they could advertise the same way they do for K orientation..grocery stores, libraries.. Also, MCPS does have at least one dual immersion program. I too think they are a great idea and hope they expand them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NAEYC is a small fraction of daycares and usually the highest cost ones...but they could advertise the same way they do for K orientation..grocery stores, libraries.. Also, MCPS does have at least one dual immersion program. I too think they are a great idea and hope they expand them.

Point taken on NAEYC. But, as you point out, there are many other venues.

[Anonymous]

Yes, Kemp Mills ES is dual immersion. You have to be zoned for that ES to go there, and not all kids are in the program.

I would hope that MCPS would expand all the language programs to better meet the demand.

[Anonymous]

Everyone does NOT have access to this information. And it also focuses on the sibling advantage (a huge number).l Did not apply to these magnets, had no interest, I do agree with his points though. Have seen it in action.