What is your experience with lower rated elementary schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here; thanks everyone!
And what do you guys make of the articles that say that kids in lower performing, less affluent schools might be up to 4 grades behind the better schools?
Right now, my son is definitely not the best in his class! so it's not like he is "not challenged enough". But I heard that a 5th grader who was top of her class in math did not get into the AP math class when she started middle school. So, being on grade level (or even above) in a lower performing school does not really guarantee you anything??

It's simple - when you have 25 kids in a classroom and 20 of them are struggling, the five who aren't look brilliant. With fcps's brainless AAP system, the best students will be removed from the classroom after 2nd grade, leaving the middle students to become the highest students. So what looks high to the teacher and students is actually only mediocre. The mediocre student is the best student now, and there is nothing for them to set their siights on that is higher. No example. And the teacher is too busy trying to get the struggling students up to the middle to worry about the one that's already there. Then in middle school those mediocre students are dumped in with all the kids whose idea of "high" is a whole level higher, and who have had the opportunity to work above grade level. It's a completely unfair system.

Statistically speaking, for whatever reason, only a small handful of children will typically leave a school where 4/5s of the students are struggling to go to AAP. So this particular issue is unfounded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here; thanks everyone!
And what do you guys make of the articles that say that kids in lower performing, less affluent schools might be up to 4 grades behind the better schools?
Right now, my son is definitely not the best in his class! so it's not like he is "not challenged enough". But I heard that a 5th grader who was top of her class in math did not get into the AP math class when she started middle school. So, being on grade level (or even above) in a lower performing school does not really guarantee you anything??

It's simple - when you have 25 kids in a classroom and 20 of them are struggling, the five who aren't look brilliant. With fcps's brainless AAP system, the best students will be removed from the classroom after 2nd grade, leaving the middle students to become the highest students. So what looks high to the teacher and students is actually only mediocre. The mediocre student is the best student now, and there is nothing for them to set their siights on that is higher. No example. And the teacher is too busy trying to get the struggling students up to the middle to worry about the one that's already there. Then in middle school those mediocre students are dumped in with all the kids whose idea of "high" is a whole level higher, and who have had the opportunity to work above grade level. It's a completely unfair system.

Statistically speaking, for whatever reason, only a small handful of children will typically leave a school where 4/5s of the students are struggling to go to AAP. So this particular issue is unfounded.

It is NOT a small handful. AAP has a ridiculous number of kids in it - way more than can actually be "gifted." It's about a handful PER GRADE LEVEL, or 20-30% of the entire fcps student population. That means one to three from each classroom. The few that would have been the best students. That's plenty to make a big difference.

[Anonymous]

Op here; we don't have a AAP system (for better or worse).
I cannot figure out our school...
On the one hand, my average son from a caring family with educated parents is not at all the best student in class! There is a kid who attends 3rd grade English language and arts. Many kids are on the accelerated reader list. So it's not like there isn't a model group of kids who are good students.
On the other hand, many good students have left throughout the year. So I am wary of this tendency.

The PTA is very weak but on the upside it is easy to get a position on the board.

I attribute lower scores to the fact that many kids are from ESOL families where parents are not college educated and often work several jobs and/or have multiple kids and just not enough resources to give them the standard middle class upbringing. It's all the usual stuff.

So far I had the following issues with the school:
- not enough "playdateable" parents; not a big deal but this is such a contrast to what we had at preschool
- teacher is relatively young and going through divorce, so slacking a lot in class lately; she does not seem to understand the "dangers" of screen time and sugary treats- so kids get tablets at free play time and sometimes at recess; and there are constant treats in the classroom. I haven't observed any small group work in class. She also is not fully certified (did not get all her credentials). I am not sure if this is true, but I have a feeling that good teachers tend to gravitate towards better schools. They might be "deployed" to lower performing schools but they tend to leave once they get through that minimal deployment necessary for career advancement.
- there seems to be almost zero help available to the teacher from parents

Behavior issues seem to be connected to special needs rather than to home life peculiarities of students.

[Anonymous]

Why do you know about the teacher's personal life? Sounds very unprofessional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op here; we don't have a AAP system (for better or worse).
I cannot figure out our school...
On the one hand, my average son from a caring family with educated parents is not at all the best student in class! There is a kid who attends 3rd grade English language and arts. Many kids are on the accelerated reader list. So it's not like there isn't a model group of kids who are good students.
On the other hand, many good students have left throughout the year. So I am wary of this tendency.

The PTA is very weak but on the upside it is easy to get a position on the board.

I attribute lower scores to the fact that many kids are from ESOL families where parents are not college educated and often work several jobs and/or have multiple kids and just not enough resources to give them the standard middle class upbringing. It's all the usual stuff.

So far I had the following issues with the school:
- not enough "playdateable" parents; not a big deal but this is such a contrast to what we had at preschool
- teacher is relatively young and going through divorce, so slacking a lot in class lately; she does not seem to understand the "dangers" of screen time and sugary treats- so kids get tablets at free play time and sometimes at recess; and there are constant treats in the classroom. I haven't observed any small group work in class. She also is not fully certified (did not get all her credentials). I am not sure if this is true, but I have a feeling that good teachers tend to gravitate towards better schools. They might be "deployed" to lower performing schools but they tend to leave once they get through that minimal deployment necessary for career advancement.
- there seems to be almost zero help available to the teacher from parents

Behavior issues seem to be connected to special needs rather than to home life peculiarities of students.

Is this a public school?

[Anonymous]

It is possible to do stations or centers without parents. It definitely takes a lot of structure with the students but it can be done.

The idea that gifted and talented children or affluent children do not have behavioral issues is absolute bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here; thanks everyone!
And what do you guys make of the articles that say that kids in lower performing, less affluent schools might be up to 4 grades behind the better schools?
Right now, my son is definitely not the best in his class! so it's not like he is "not challenged enough". But I heard that a 5th grader who was top of her class in math did not get into the AP math class when she started middle school. So, being on grade level (or even above) in a lower performing school does not really guarantee you anything??

It's simple - when you have 25 kids in a classroom and 20 of them are struggling, the five who aren't look brilliant. With fcps's brainless AAP system, the best students will be removed from the classroom after 2nd grade, leaving the middle students to become the highest students. So what looks high to the teacher and students is actually only mediocre. The mediocre student is the best student now, and there is nothing for them to set their siights on that is higher. No example. And the teacher is too busy trying to get the struggling students up to the middle to worry about the one that's already there. Then in middle school those mediocre students are dumped in with all the kids whose idea of "high" is a whole level higher, and who have had the opportunity to work above grade level. It's a completely unfair system.

Statistically speaking, for whatever reason, only a small handful of children will typically leave a school where 4/5s of the students are struggling to go to AAP. So this particular issue is unfounded.

It is NOT a small handful. AAP has a ridiculous number of kids in it - way more than can actually be "gifted." It's about a handful PER GRADE LEVEL, or 20-30% of the entire fcps student population. That means one to three from each classroom. The few that would have been the best students. That's plenty to make a big difference.

While you are ranting, get the facts right. AAP does not pretend to serve only gifted kids. It's a broader program than that. Hence the name "Advanced Academics" and not GT. It pulls about 17% of the relevant grades (not all grades, and not 20-30%), but does so very unevenly. In affluent areas 1/3-1/2 of the grade might qualify. In those that are less so it is often less than 5 kids per grade, and maybe 1-2. That is, of course, because academic achievement so closely tracks with SES. So while AAP is a big program, it takes relatively few kids from Title I schools. At any rate, back to your regularly scheduled rant.

[Anonymous]

OP here- the teacher took her maiden name back, plus there are rumors amongst PTA moms which kind of trickle down

Yes it is a public school

Behavioral issues- I mean there is no evidence that they may be attributed to lower SES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here; thanks everyone!
And what do you guys make of the articles that say that kids in lower performing, less affluent schools might be up to 4 grades behind the better schools?
Right now, my son is definitely not the best in his class! so it's not like he is "not challenged enough". But I heard that a 5th grader who was top of her class in math did not get into the AP math class when she started middle school. So, being on grade level (or even above) in a lower performing school does not really guarantee you anything??

It's simple - when you have 25 kids in a classroom and 20 of them are struggling, the five who aren't look brilliant. With fcps's brainless AAP system, the best students will be removed from the classroom after 2nd grade, leaving the middle students to become the highest students. So what looks high to the teacher and students is actually only mediocre. The mediocre student is the best student now, and there is nothing for them to set their siights on that is higher. No example. And the teacher is too busy trying to get the struggling students up to the middle to worry about the one that's already there. Then in middle school those mediocre students are dumped in with all the kids whose idea of "high" is a whole level higher, and who have had the opportunity to work above grade level. It's a completely unfair system.

Statistically speaking, for whatever reason, only a small handful of children will typically leave a school where 4/5s of the students are struggling to go to AAP. So this particular issue is unfounded.

It is NOT a small handful. AAP has a ridiculous number of kids in it - way more than can actually be "gifted." It's about a handful PER GRADE LEVEL, or 20-30% of the entire fcps student population. That means one to three from each classroom. The few that would have been the best students. That's plenty to make a big difference.

While you are ranting, get the facts right. AAP does not pretend to serve only gifted kids. It's a broader program than that. Hence the name "Advanced Academics" and not GT. It pulls about 17% of the relevant grades (not all grades, and not 20-30%), but does so very unevenly. In affluent areas 1/3-1/2 of the grade might qualify. In those that are less so it is often less than 5 kids per grade, and maybe 1-2. That is, of course, because academic achievement so closely tracks with SES. So while AAP is a big program, it takes relatively few kids from Title I schools. At any rate, back to your regularly scheduled rant.

Level IV AAP does pretend to be a gifted program, hence the kids are admitted based on the NNAT, CogAT, and GBRS (gifted behavior rating). The name was changed from GT to Advance Academics Program to make it clear that it's a program for kids who are academically gifted, not those gifted in the arts. FCPS stated this when the name change occurred. AAP does affect title I schools because the top kids tend to leave to a center and then some services like compacted math are not available because the school doesn't think there is a critical mass. I'm guessing when a lot of kids from OP child's school leave to private, there is a similar effect. OP, you need to ask what type of advanced math and language arts tracks the school has at higher grades. Also try to find out about the level of teacher turnover.