Seeking advice on sign language for mostly non-verbal ASD son

[Anonymous]

For our mostly nonverbal 5 year old, we use both AAC and sign.

As several PPs have said, it is TOTALLY INCORRECT that you need to wait until your son learns to type to use AAC. If an SLP told you that I would take everything they say with a grain of salt because they really don't know what they're talking about. Our son uses an iPad mini with the Speak for Yourself app, which is a great system that can be used by kids as young as 1 or 2 up to adults: http://www.speakforyourself.org/

For signing, we have the Signing Times DVDs for 3-8 year olds: https://store.signingtime.com/signing-time/#top

I don't think there's any reason to pick one over the other necessarily. I will say that if your child may never have verbal speech, being able to use an AAC device will allow him to communicate with a lot more people than will sign, because not as many people know sign.

Best of luck OP. It's great that you're exploring

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is six years old, on the spectrum, with major issues in expressive communication. We've tried speech therapy for over two years now, and there has not been much progress. He can say some words -- "I don't know" is his default response to any question -- and can speak more easily with prompts, but often seems to have problems getting a word out on his own. We are coming to accept that he will likely be mostly non-verbal, and are considering whether to take up sign language to supplement his communication skills. The alternative is to wait for him to learn to type and rely on assistive technology.

Does anyone have any advice on how to approach this?

And if we go forward with sign language, should I learn it first, so that I can help him learn it later? Or should the family learn it at the same time, so we can determine in real time whether sign language is appropriate for him? Also, are there affordable facilities near Bethesda that teach sign to people with hearing (parent or child)? I don't think DVDs or apps will be that effective for me — given my old brain, new languages are hard to learn.

Also, any thoughts on learning ASL versus signed speech?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

I'm baffled by the bolded. There are many assistive tech solutions that don't involve typing. I would probably choose symbol based AAC over signing, and definitely over typing, in your situation.

Do you have a gage of his receptive language skills? In my experience (special ed teacher) kids who have low receptive and expressive language skills often benefit from a keyword approach using either sign or high tech AAC. So if we were playing a game, I might say "hey WAIT a minute! It's MY TURN!" and sign or model on a device the words WAIT MY TURN.

If I did choose sign, I'd use ASL signs, but not with ASL grammar. I'd use a keyword approach, with English word order, but just the most important words signed or modeled.

That is actually how people who sign do things - it is very much an abbreviated language. You don't sign many of the words that you would speak or write.

You learn the gestures and abbreviations from someone fluent in sign language.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Sign_Language

http://m.mentalfloss.com/article.php?id=13107

[Anonymous]

My DS has ASD and had severe expressive disorder when he was six. He had severe echolalia and couldn't answer most questions. He would say I don't know to answer most questions till recently. We saw no improvement the first few years of therapy but he continued to receive speech therapy for 9 years and now can hold short conversations. I tried sign language. I tried PECs. At the end, I understood that if he can answer some questions even with help or just to say I don't know, he can talk. In other words, he can produce the sounds for the speech and if he can sign something, he can say it. If he can't say it because of expressive delay, he can't say it in any form. For years, I have giving him words for everything. Point it, sign it, say it, put it in a sentence, give the meaning, repeat it, ask it in a question, give synonyms, give antonyms, and don't accept I don't know as an answer, give him acceptable answers and let him pick one and say it. He would get frustrated at the beginning and he would always pick the last option for answers to end the conversation but when he started to get the carrots instead of ice-cream he caught on. Now he asks for meanings and tries to understand how to use a word.

I understand augmented communication devices help if the child is non-verbal but he is verbal and can communicate so how can augmented communication help with a verbal child?

My be my DS has a different problem than OP's. I am not saying my way is correct or augmented communication is wrong in this case but I am wondering if 2 years of therapy is enough. OP, have you tried other speech therapists?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DS has ASD and had severe expressive disorder when he was six. He had severe echolalia and couldn't answer most questions. He would say I don't know to answer most questions till recently. We saw no improvement the first few years of therapy but he continued to receive speech therapy for 9 years and now can hold short conversations. I tried sign language. I tried PECs. At the end, I understood that if he can answer some questions even with help or just to say I don't know, he can talk. In other words, he can produce the sounds for the speech and if he can sign something, he can say it. If he can't say it because of expressive delay, he can't say it in any form. For years, I have giving him words for everything. Point it, sign it, say it, put it in a sentence, give the meaning, repeat it, ask it in a question, give synonyms, give antonyms, and don't accept I don't know as an answer, give him acceptable answers and let him pick one and say it. He would get frustrated at the beginning and he would always pick the last option for answers to end the conversation but when he started to get the carrots instead of ice-cream he caught on. Now he asks for meanings and tries to understand how to use a word.

I understand augmented communication devices help if the child is non-verbal but he is verbal and can communicate so how can augmented communication help with a verbal child?

My be my DS has a different problem than OP's. I am not saying my way is correct or augmented communication is wrong in this case but I am wondering if 2 years of therapy is enough. OP, have you tried other speech therapists?

I'm the PP special educator above. AAC can be a powerful support for kids who are verbal but have low skills. It provides a visual model, and is much easier for most kids to imitate. It also helps kids make connections. It also forces the person teaching language to be more systematic about how they model and teach language, which can be very helpful for some kids. Finally, it gives kids a way to explore language on their own, particularly kids who like repetition and cause and effect, which can include many kids with ASD.

I'm not saying that it's right for your kid, but it could be a very good match for OP's kid, even if he has some language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is six years old, on the spectrum, with major issues in expressive communication. We've tried speech therapy for over two years now, and there has not been much progress. He can say some words -- "I don't know" is his default response to any question -- and can speak more easily with prompts, but often seems to have problems getting a word out on his own. We are coming to accept that he will likely be mostly non-verbal, and are considering whether to take up sign language to supplement his communication skills. The alternative is to wait for him to learn to type and rely on assistive technology.

Does anyone have any advice on how to approach this?

And if we go forward with sign language, should I learn it first, so that I can help him learn it later? Or should the family learn it at the same time, so we can determine in real time whether sign language is appropriate for him? Also, are there affordable facilities near Bethesda that teach sign to people with hearing (parent or child)? I don't think DVDs or apps will be that effective for me — given my old brain, new languages are hard to learn.

Also, any thoughts on learning ASL versus signed speech?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

I'm baffled by the bolded. There are many assistive tech solutions that don't involve typing. I would probably choose symbol based AAC over signing, and definitely over typing, in your situation.

Do you have a gage of his receptive language skills? In my experience (special ed teacher) kids who have low receptive and expressive language skills often benefit from a keyword approach using either sign or high tech AAC. So if we were playing a game, I might say "hey WAIT a minute! It's MY TURN!" and sign or model on a device the words WAIT MY TURN.

If I did choose sign, I'd use ASL signs, but not with ASL grammar. I'd use a keyword approach, with English word order, but just the most important words signed or modeled.

That is actually how people who sign do things - it is very much an abbreviated language. You don't sign many of the words that you would speak or write.

You learn the gestures and abbreviations from someone fluent in sign language.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Sign_Language

http://m.mentalfloss.com/article.php?id=13107

No, ASL is a language with it's own grammar, and word/sign order. It doesn't match English.

Speaking English while signing ASL is almost impossible, because of the differences in word order. It would be like speaking French while writing English. It's not just that the individual words are different, but the order and grammar are totally different.

It may be true that because of the way ASL combines classifiers, and movement, and position, that it is more efficient than speech. But it's not abbreviated.

Keyword signing is totally different, in that it doesn't use ASL grammar, just ASL signs.

I agree that a fluent signer is best to teach the signs, even if you're not going to use them in ASL grammar.

[Anonymous]

My 5yo son is HFA, very verbal, but still loves to sign. He signs and speaks simultaneously quite a bit of the time. We LOVE the Signing Time DVDs. They are available on Amazon Prime for 1.99/episode for a week. I don't think it would be harmful. Especially if you just try one. The signs are set to music and are pretty conversational, so very appropriate. My son loves animals so we just got the Zoo Train one this week and he's been having great fun with it. He sees the animal in a book, sees the spelling and then signs the animal. I'm not a SLP, I don't know what the risk is of adding another method of communication to his learning, but they really are cute and the music is fun. He uses it to communicate with his nonverbal classmates that know some ASL. His teachers love it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS is six years old, on the spectrum, with major issues in expressive communication. We've tried speech therapy for over two years now, and there has not been much progress. He can say some words -- "I don't know" is his default response to any question -- and can speak more easily with prompts, but often seems to have problems getting a word out on his own. We are coming to accept that he will likely be mostly non-verbal, and are considering whether to take up sign language to supplement his communication skills. The alternative is to wait for him to learn to type and rely on assistive technology.

Does anyone have any advice on how to approach this?

And if we go forward with sign language, should I learn it first, so that I can help him learn it later? Or should the family learn it at the same time, so we can determine in real time whether sign language is appropriate for him? Also, are there affordable facilities near Bethesda that teach sign to people with hearing (parent or child)? I don't think DVDs or apps will be that effective for me — given my old brain, new languages are hard to learn.

Also, any thoughts on learning ASL versus signed speech?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

I'm baffled by the bolded. There are many assistive tech solutions that don't involve typing. I would probably choose symbol based AAC over signing, and definitely over typing, in your situation.

Do you have a gage of his receptive language skills? In my experience (special ed teacher) kids who have low receptive and expressive language skills often benefit from a keyword approach using either sign or high tech AAC. So if we were playing a game, I might say "hey WAIT a minute! It's MY TURN!" and sign or model on a device the words WAIT MY TURN.

If I did choose sign, I'd use ASL signs, but not with ASL grammar. I'd use a keyword approach, with English word order, but just the most important words signed or modeled.

That is actually how people who sign do things - it is very much an abbreviated language. You don't sign many of the words that you would speak or write.

You learn the gestures and abbreviations from someone fluent in sign language.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Sign_Language

http://m.mentalfloss.com/article.php?id=13107d

You have no idea what you are talking about and your ignorance is rude and insulting to the Deaf Cultural minority of ASL users.

American Sign Language (ASL) is a complete, complex language that employs signs made by moving the hands combined with facial expressions and postures of the body. It is the primary language of many North Americans who are deaf and is one of several communication options used by people who are deaf or hard-of-hearing.
American Sign Language | NIDCD
National Institutes of Health (.gov) › nidcd ›

American Sign Language (ASL) is a visual-gestural language that is used as a primary means of communication by many deaf people in the United States and Canada. For a long time, it was thought to be either a crude collection of gestures, or to be an "inferior" form of English. However, linguistic research beginning in the 1960s has shown that ASL is a true, complete and rich language in its own right, unrelated to English. ASL is a major part of American Deaf culture, and is transmitted from one generation of signers to the next.

http://libguides.gallaudet.edu/content_mobile.php?pid=114804&sid=991858#box_991858

[Anonymous]

Baby signing time DVDs.

Our SLP had DS watch them 3 times a day. We watched them too- and learned along with him.

The first video is 'eat, drink, sleep, hurt' ect. Learning those words were a game changer in our household.

Rent DVD one from the library.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you tried signing time DVDs? They are tailored for kids (both babies and older kids). My kid learnt how to sign from those DVDs. They are interactive and use music to engage kids. If you kid likes music, he will love these DVDs.
Here is the link to their website:

http://www.signingtime.com/

Hope it helps!

THIS! I learned sign language along with my child and it was much easier with these DVDs.