FYI on MCPS middle school magnet appeal with child with IEP
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Anonymous
IEPs do not mean the curriculum is changed. But the child is entitled to specialized instruction. Big difference. |
Anonymous
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There's something wrong with your post, Takoma parent.
You say the Takoma Park magnet program has a ton of kids with "problems" which you seem to define as having a 504 or IEP. If you look at the Choice Study stats that program has very few kids with 504s or IEPs so those problem kids are in all probability not special needs kids. |
Anonymous
Yes, but you should understand that there are 2e kids (twice exceptional.) Pretty much all "geniuses" were 2e. Most of them had some form of Asperger or ADHD. (Einstein, Edison etc.) They only could focus on what they loved (math, science etc.) and where absolutely associal and quirky. Many of them struggled to fit in regular schools and study. If 2e kids can and fit into Takoma, it is life saver for that kid. Here is link about Edison, enjoy. https://www.truthorfiction.com/after-a-schoolteacher-called-thomas-edison-addled-his-heroic-mother-stepped-in/ |
Anonymous
Have you visited Takoma? I am not sure what Study determined, but if you will sit through classes you will notice many kids who a socially different. Some with official accommodations and some you can just see having problems. I did not checked their confidential files... |
Anonymous
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Hi OP, I just wanted to support you in your feeling that the MS magnet application process includes a lot of factors which tend to unnecessarily screen SN kids out of the process. That is not fair (and probably not legal, but that hasn't been tested in court).
But, I want you and other parents to know that it is possible for SN kids to get into the magnet programs. I have a DC who has an IEP with an SLD code. DC has had an IEP since 3rd grade. IEP is pretty crappy and we have sought outside private instruction to address DC's SLD. We have encountered many teachers who thought DC was lazy or disinterested or stupid, instead of understanding DC's LD. DC applied to the HGC magnet and was rejected. DC's test scores were only close to the median in one category, and DC likely had very poor teacher recommendations and no support from the principal. That was the year that we were fighting hard for an IEP and the school system was saying that the problem was just that DC wasn't that bright. We did not appeal the rejection at all, although our educational advocate later told us we should have. We got a private assessment, succeeded in getting an IEP, extra-time and other accommodations, etc. Over the next couple of ES years, we provided DC privately with the specialized instruction DC should have gotten on an IEP but never did. DC's skills improved, but the LD still shows and probably always will to some extent. DC applied to a MS magnet and got in. I think it's important to share what we did in the application process that helped. First, DC had excellent teacher recommendations. You are absolutely right that it is difficult to get these when you are at the same time fighting the school for an adequate IEP. Then, in the application, we authorized the admissions committee's access to the IEP and private neuropsych assessment and asked that it be considered alongside DC's test scores. We pointed out in the initial application that group-based test scores are well known to under-predict the performance of GT/LD students and thus unfairly screen these kids out of opportunities for which they are adequately qualified. We pointed out several aspects of the neuropsych that illustrated that DC was qualified and could be successful in the magnet program. I have no way of knowing if the committee actually looked at this outside testing or not, but I made sure it was there and some of the documentation was in the application. It also helped that the MS magnet did not provide all of DC's testing accommodations and the ones they did provide were poorly done (like giving DC extra-time in a room full of students who didn't have extra time and just sat there whispering while DC finished.) We documented the accommodations both before test administration and the failures immediately after test administration prior to the return of scores. It's important to note that our DC was accepted to the MS magnet even though all three of DC's test scores were below the median of accepted students -- 2 far below the median and a 3rd within a point or two of the median. I can't speak to what actually happened in the admissions committee, but test scores given without appropriate accommodation if used as the basis to refuse admission to a SN student would put the school system in a precarious position, legally speaking. Another important part of the application are the essays. DC used the opportunity to write about the challenges that the LD presents and how DC has worked on, around or overcome them. I'm sure that helped. So, DC is in the MS magnet with an IEP and is getting all As and Bs. The opportunity is, of course, life-changing, especially considering how often in the past DC has had to fight for acceleration or advanced classes. We have some difficulty getting teachers to implement all the accommodations, and DC works harder in those areas which are impacted by the LD. But, overall, it has worked out better than I could have imagined. A previous PP is right that there are a few kids with IEPs or 504s in our magnet, but not many. I'm sure there could be many more, but the entire SN process, the magnet application process, and the GT/LD program steers these kids away from this opportunity. In fact, when considering the acceptance, we were warned that the magnet program does not provide an inclusive or team taught classroom, which again, is probably not legal but has never been contested, to my knowledge. I encourage you to keep fighting. There are quite few kids who are accepted to both MS magnets and thus must turn down one acceptance, so getting in off the wait list is possible. This happened to a friend of ours in the HGC, so, again, it is possible. One additional problem that I see with the appeals process is that it doesn't comply with normal notions of due process -- in the first level of the appeal process it sounds like the people who are reviewing the appeal are the same people who made the original decision. I'm not an attorney, but that doesn't seem like it complies with due process. Also, the appeals process only allows you to appeal if there is "new information" to consider, and it seems you were told when you provided that new information (the neuropsych) that it couldn't be considered. For the future, it is wise to invoke your FERPA and MPIA rights in advance of your initial appeal. Under FERPA you have the right to ask to see your student's entire application file as well as any notes numerical indices made by the admissions committee. Recent teacher recommendations require that you waive your ability to see these, but you might be able to get them anyway under FERPA. I would also do an MPIA to know 1) how many kids applied 2) how many kids with 504s applied 3) how many kids with IEPs applied 4) how many kids were accepted with IEPS or 504s 5) what was the median AND range in each test (the letter only gives you the median) and 6) what was the median and range of the accepted kids with 504/IEPs and 7) how many kids were accepted whose test scores were above all three medians, above two, above one and above none. You should receive this information before the application deadline or if you don't you note in your appeal that you are being asked to apply without having been supplied with the proper foundational information. It presents a dilemma -- whether fighting and speaking out about the shortcomings helps or hurts. For us, we have been fighting the system for so long, that we are used to it, and we figure if it doesn't help us, it might help someone in the future. Good luck! |
Anonymous
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Oh, and to add to ^ -- you are right, it is hard to get recognized as gifted when one also has an IEP, but there are people and resources in MCPS/Advanced and Enriched Instruction department to help with this. Please contact Marissa Stemple if you are having trouble with this, whether or not you are at a magnet.
Also, a community resource, the GT/LD network, is very helpful. |
Anonymous
| I see that pp's post would be reassuring to the op, but many of the rest of us may find it discouraging. I don't understand why a child who scores significantly below the median on all sections of the exam should be admitted. What exactly is the difference between a child with learning disabilities who scores below the mean and a child who simply scores below the mean? Wouldn't every child probably benefit from being at the magnet? I'm not saying GT/LD status does not exist, but with extra time and a lower score required for admission, many of the 5th graders I know could get into and succeed at a magnet. How would any of their parents know if they have a learning disability or not if they aren't willing or able to pay for private testing? |
Anonymous
The choice study has statistics on kids with IEPs and 504 plans in the various programs. |
Anonymous
Um, don't you understand basic math? It's the median first of all. Half the kids admitted have scores below the median. |
Anonymous
| 14:46, thank you for sharing. |
Anonymous
It's median not mean that is referenced in the admissions letter. By mathematical definition of median, 50% score above the median and 50% score below. So, the admissions letter states the median score for admitted students, and, by definition, 50% of admitted students score above that and 50% of admitted students score below that in each of the three test sections. So, there are many students who are admitted to the MS magnet with scores in one or more of the three categories that are below the median -- some may be LD, most are not. It's mathematically impossible to say that all admitted students scored above the median of admitted students. Also, any parent who suspects their child has a learning disability which adversely impacts education and necessitates specialized instruction has a right to ask for an IEP. As part of the IEP process, a child should be provided with a free assessment. If you visit the SN board, you will see that this is not as easy as it seems, but, at least for SN kids, private testing is not supposed to be necessary. In practice, I agree that SN needs go unidentified frequently, which is a problem, but that is not a reason to refuse to serve SN kids in programs for which they are qualified. As for your if my kid had extra time, he'd be able to get in too contention -- well, it's like saying that the kid with a broken writing hand shouldn't get extra-time to write his essay, because if my kid also had extra time he'd be able to write an even better essay. Well, your kid doesn't have a broken arm and so doesn't have the difficulties that impede performance like the kid with the broken arm does. Brain differences are just as physical as the broken arm. As for "lower scores required for admission," that is something that is widely assumed, but we have no data on that. It may be that admitted LD kids have score profiles that are similar to non-LD kids, or at least not significantly different. As to the larger question is whether the selected test is an accurate predictor of all those who could succeed in the magnet programs -- I think not. If you are suggesting that the test unfairly screens out a lot of kids who could benefit from a magnet, I certainly agree that there are more kids who could be successful in these magnets than we are identifying. As a corollary, I also don't think that small differences in the number of correct questions is can validly differentiate one student as more or less deserving of a magnet seat than another. But, I don't think all kids would benefit from the magnets. In my experience, with other non-LD children who have gone thru HGCs and magnet, no, not every child benefits from a magnet. For example, our LD child can benefit from one of the MS magnets, but it would be a detriment to send DC to the other MS magnet; therefore we only decided to apply to one. The work load is heavier than the regular educational program and the underlying skills necessary for success are of a different level. For example, if you are a 5th grader reading at a 5th grade level and were you to be placed at the Eastern Magnet, you would struggle to read and understand "The Good Earth" in sixth grade. |
Anonymous
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Have you looked into MCPS GT/LD program?
http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/curriculum/enriched/gtld/ This is for kids who may have a learning difference but who are above average academically. I am not sure of the exact requirements, but I know MCPS has this. |
Anonymous
| Although the magnets and HGCs report the median (and as pointed out this means half of students are below), there are three sections of the test. Typically students who are admitted are at or above the median in one or two sections. |
Anonymous
FWIW, one can only gain access to the GT/LD program in MS if one is placed there by one's home school IEP team. By providing such a placement, the IEP team is admitting that the GT/LD student cannot be provided free and appropriate public education at their home middle school and must have an alternative placement. It is not something a parent can simply opt into or sign their child up for. Kids are not considered by competitive application. The GT/LD program does not at all have the same GT curriculum as the Eastern, Takoma and Clemente middle schools. What constitutes "GT" in the GT/LD program is being placed in "advanced" classes open to all MS students. For math, this means you could only get a placement which leads to Algebra in 7th grade. By comparison, at the MS magnets some kids are doing Algebra in 6th grade, although admittedly this is a much smaller number than prior to Curriculum 2.0. Also the curriculum in the MS magnet math is deeper than regular MCPS math. In English and World Studies, it means being able to take "Advanced" English or World Studies, which is in no way comparable to the reading level and writing instruction in the Humanities magnet. Also, at most middle schools nowadays, almost all kids take 'advanced," so practically speaking what is taught is not that advanced. My understanding is that the GT/LD students participate in "team taught" classes or some model where there are two adults in the room (one could be a para-educator) so that the GT/LD kids can get their supports and specialized instruction. This means that they have at least some GT/LD peers in their classes, but don't think the entire class is GT/LD. (Please correct me if I am wrong.) I know a number of parents of students in the GT/LD program who are very happy there. But, I think it's important for parents considering placement vs. application to magnet, to understand the differences. |
Anonymous
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14:46, thank you for your post. I do think that private testing is often necessary for appropriate placement for GT/LD kids.
- a former LD tutor |