Please Read! Are we putting the blame about Prince Georges County on the wrong people?

[Anonymous]

PP here - sorry I misread you OP - you were saying the same thing I did above. Maybe the info above will be helpful to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK so who's electing these people?

I understand your point. All I ever heard was PG needs to become more diverse..translation less black so the school system can improve, but looking at those links that's totally B.S. The racial demographics aren't the problem, when it comes to crime or schools.

Different pp. My understanding about this sentiment is two-fold:

1. other ethnic groups are better at standardized tests, so if the schools are more diverse scores will go up- instant school improvement!
2. black people are less likely to vote out crappy black elected officials because they do not want to take a successful black person down

umm so why are those 70 plus percent black schools in other counties out performing all our OURS..even ones with a significant "other" population like Bowie HS & Roosevelt? This myth was the whole point of my post and people are still falling for it. Being a majority black county is NOT the reason for the low test scores especially in HS, Charles & Baltimore County prove that. We dont have one school that matches their majority black HS test scores

PP you are responding too- I agree, it's a cheap cop out. But are the schools you are comparing Bowie and Roosevelt also similar socio-economically? I also get the sense that the high-achieving students in PG county are pulled out of the public schools and put in private well before high school.

Hmmm I wonder what the percentage is. I always assumed Moco and a much higher public to private school rate. Maybe thats an issue as well and that Charles & Baltimore county black population for the most part keep their kids in their neighborhood school. Bowie & Roosevelt are still in demographics racially and income similar to other school districts HS that are surpassing them in test scores. Once again Roosevelt is a Science & Tech school but can't test higher then a regular Baltimore County school (New Town High School) thats over 92 percent black

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in Charles County and live near both the high schools you mentioned. My children are zoned for North Point.

I think you need to examine the SES for the schools in PG vs. the CC schools that you've cited -- you are not making an apples to apples comparison (except on race -- which is problematic)

The FARMS rate of PG High Schools have been trending upward significantly in the last 10 years (33% in 2004 to 56% in 2015)

The FARMS rate of Charles County HS has increased too -- but it's about half of PG's at 29% in 2015. North Point only has 17% and Westlake is at 32%. Roosevelt is at 42.5%.

(Got all of the above data from http://reportcard.msde.maryland.gov/)

Even though the kids in these CC schools are predominately black, these are not poor children. They are middle to upper-middle class children. The neighborhoods feeding into NP and WL are subdivisions that are typically less than 30 years old, have at least 1/4 acre lots, and 3000+ sq ft McMansions. Go to city-data.com and look at the discrepancies in wealth, housing, and education between the zip codes feeding into NP and WL (20601, 20603) and Roosevelt (20770)

The issue isn't that the kids are black - it's that they are poor.

Oh wow thanks for that. I had no idea the FARM rate had increased that much in PG or that it was that much of a difference in HS when comparing counties. Its funny how the DC black population was screaming against gentrification yet its happening in DROVES...PG has been screaming FOR IT...yet the county refuses to dabble in it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK so who's electing these people?

The zombies

[Anonymous]

Roosevelt isn't all sci-tech. There is a regular or "comprehensive" program as well. So both programs play into the Great Schools score. Also, the student populations at Roosevelt and Bowie are significantly higher than 900 students.

I have two children in the public school system in PG. There are some good teachers, many average and quite a few bad. Same goes for administrators. The house needs to be cleaned, and more energetic and competent teachers and administrators need to be brought here.

[Anonymous]

PP figured it out

If you want to fix it quit having the elites taking their kids out to go to private school
You do that by having a magnet or two or three

Otherwise you have the same problem that Alexandria VA is facing. The elites won't use the public schools so the whole system suffers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Roosevelt isn't all sci-tech. There is a regular or "comprehensive" program as well. So both programs play into the Great Schools score. Also, the student populations at Roosevelt and Bowie are significantly higher than 900 students.

I have two children in the public school system in PG. There are some good teachers, many average and quite a few bad. Same goes for administrators. The house needs to be cleaned, and more energetic and competent teachers and administrators need to be brought here.

1st school posted has 1500+ kids the 2nd has over 2000. Neither is a magnet school and yet both out test our best magnet/comprehensive programn. If u look at other States like GA, ILL etc they have several schools with similar demographics that would be in the 8-10 range in MD

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP figured it out

If you want to fix it quit having the elites taking their kids out to go to private school
You do that by having a magnet or two or three

Otherwise you have the same problem that Alexandria VA is facing. The elites won't use the public schools so the whole system suffers

we do Roosevelt, Oxon hill, Flowers . plus Bowie honors program, plus the HS/College program at PG

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roosevelt isn't all sci-tech. There is a regular or "comprehensive" program as well. So both programs play into the Great Schools score. Also, the student populations at Roosevelt and Bowie are significantly higher than 900 students.

I have two children in the public school system in PG. There are some good teachers, many average and quite a few bad. Same goes for administrators. The house needs to be cleaned, and more energetic and competent teachers and administrators need to be brought here.

1st school posted has 1500+ kids the 2nd has over 2000. Neither is a magnet school and yet both out test our best magnet/comprehensive programn. If u look at other States like GA, ILL etc they have several schools with similar demographics that would be in the 8-10 range in MD

Ok, I hear you. But what can we do? My youngest is in our zone school and is struggling in honors math, despite having a tutor. He does well in his other honors courses. The school's only responses are that he needs to take responsibility for his education, that only he is to blame and not the teacher, and that maybe he needs to leave honors. However, the school says he is doing too well to have a 504 plan (he has ADHD) or to have testing. This school rates as a 5. If I could afford private or a move to a better school, I would.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roosevelt isn't all sci-tech. There is a regular or "comprehensive" program as well. So both programs play into the Great Schools score. Also, the student populations at Roosevelt and Bowie are significantly higher than 900 students.

I have two children in the public school system in PG. There are some good teachers, many average and quite a few bad. Same goes for administrators. The house needs to be cleaned, and more energetic and competent teachers and administrators need to be brought here.

1st school posted has 1500+ kids the 2nd has over 2000. Neither is a magnet school and yet both out test our best magnet/comprehensive programn. If u look at other States like GA, ILL etc they have several schools with similar demographics that would be in the 8-10 range in MD

Ok, I hear you. But what can we do? My youngest is in our zone school and is struggling in honors math, despite having a tutor. He does well in his other honors courses. The school's only responses are that he needs to take responsibility for his education, that only he is to blame and not the teacher, and that maybe he needs to leave honors. However, the school says he is doing too well to have a 504 plan (he has ADHD) or to have testing. This school rates as a 5. If I could afford private or a move to a better school, I would.

Wow sorry to hear that. Have you tried a "transfer"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roosevelt isn't all sci-tech. There is a regular or "comprehensive" program as well. So both programs play into the Great Schools score. Also, the student populations at Roosevelt and Bowie are significantly higher than 900 students.

I have two children in the public school system in PG. There are some good teachers, many average and quite a few bad. Same goes for administrators. The house needs to be cleaned, and more energetic and competent teachers and administrators need to be brought here.

1st school posted has 1500+ kids the 2nd has over 2000. Neither is a magnet school and yet both out test our best magnet/comprehensive programn. If u look at other States like GA, ILL etc they have several schools with similar demographics that would be in the 8-10 range in MD

Ok, I hear you. But what can we do? My youngest is in our zone school and is struggling in honors math, despite having a tutor. He does well in his other honors courses. The school's only responses are that he needs to take responsibility for his education, that only he is to blame and not the teacher, and that maybe he needs to leave honors. However, the school says he is doing too well to have a 504 plan (he has ADHD) or to have testing. This school rates as a 5. If I could afford private or a move to a better school, I would.

Wow sorry to hear that. Have you tried a "transfer"?

I did last year, got it and he really wanted to stay at his current school. Plus, with transfers, transportation is not provided. So I let him stay. If I can, I will apply for a transfer again and make that work if it is approved.

[Anonymous]

Here's the thing you need to understand about a Great Schools Rating. The rating only takes into account what percentage of students have managed to achieve minimal "passing" proficiency on certain State tests.

Schools with a 95% pass rate for, say, their overall math scores could just be really good at getting everyone to that basic level -- but might not be doing anything for the kids who already arrive at school able to pass the grade level tests. That is NOT The same thing as having all their kids 95% proficient in math. 95% of the kids could just basely be passing the state math tests (and formerly, the pass rate was set very, very low… sometimes as low as 50% correct on a multiple choice test where you would score 25% by random chance alone).

It is definitely possible for a school to put all its time and energy into those kids "on the bubble" -- the ones you identify at the start of the year as in danger of not making basic proficiency. You do a lot of test prep with those kids and get them just up to the "Pass proficient" level (and to do that you ignore the kids who are already able to pass and don't need extra assistance to do so).

When I see schools that are very unusual in their demographics, with near 100% pass rates despite having demographics that are usually correlated with lower pass rates, I am skeptical that these strong pass rates are really reflective of an outstanding education program. Often it turns out they reflect something different -- intense test pressure for the kids "on the bubble", relocating resources from your already proficient students and not focusing on their achievement, intensive efforts to get every testing accommodation under the sun for special needs students, and possibly, reorganizing a school to reduce the number of ESL and SPECIAL ED students by various means.

A school like Roosevelt High School has a Science Tech program that is open by exam and application. There are 250 students in that part of the program each year or 1000 students total. You can assume that almost all of those students will be able to pass a test of basic math and reading proficiency at grade level. Yet the school is twice or three times that size. So for the Magnet part of the program, the pass rate on state tests would be expected to be near 100% or a Great Schools Score of 10. However when you factor in the other students who did not enter by exam, they would not be expected to all pass at the same rate as they are general education students, not part of the STEM magnet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
As far as the High schools why dont we have at least one that is a "7" on great schools.com? Our most esteemed school is Roosevelt and that is just a "6"..again you can say the "demographics" (blacks) but look at these majority black HS in Charles & Baltimore County

Charles County:

West Lake HS: 70 percent Black, 11 percent White, 5 percent Hispanic "7"


http://www.greatschools.org/maryland/waldorf/598-Westlake-High-School/


North Point HS: 55 percent Black, 30 Percent White. Also a "7"

http://www.greatschools.org/maryland/waldorf/2554-North-Point-High-School/details/


P.S. [b]They also have 2 other HS (Black population 55 % +) that are a "6"
P.S. My point we have let PG GOVT use these things as EXCUSES as to why we can't produce high test results and low crimes. Now I know that MD test scores are really high compared to other states so even a school like Duval which is barely a 3 has about 80-85 of the student body proficient in scores which in any other state would give it at least a 5 or 6, but were not in any other state were in MD so why can't our scores match other HS with similar demographics? WE AREN'T THE PROBLEM PG GOVT IS

You know the schools you list first as examples have a much lower poverty rate than most high schools in PG County. For one thing their FARMS rate (free and reduced meals) is a lot lower than the school you are comparing it to.

West Lake High School: FARMS rate 28%
North Point High School: Farms rate 18%
Roosevelt High School: FARMS rate 40%


Even so, how well an education are those poor kids on Free/Reduced Meals being educated? Well, look at the most recent test scores for the PARCC -- Algebra I test and see how FARMS kids are doing at each of those schools. What percentage of FARMS kids passed (proficient) the Algebra I test at each school?

West Lake High School --- less than 1%
North Point High School -- less than 1 %
Roosevelt High School ---- 19%

So, if you are a poor kid, would you rather go to a school with a greatschools score of 7? Or Would 6 be OK?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I as a resident am loyal to and love the county, but it is assumed that our high crime rate (in relation to neighboring counties) is because of our proximity to the poor areas of Washington, DC.

No, convention wisdom is that as poorer areas of DC gentrify and the poorest people are pushed out, they are moving to PG County being the cheapest nearest place to move into.

Honestly the only "solution" to this problem is to gentrify PG county as well and push the poorest people... out somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. And what do you propose we do about it, OP? I see a post about a problem, but no solutions coming from you. And we all know that PG County's government and the school district have had problems with accountability and corruption. I don't think anyone believes, given the high taxes we are paying, that our children are getting our money's worth.

First solution is to actually hold them accountable by showing them that similar demographics are getting better results and stop falling for the "myths" as to why were not. In doing that their will be more accountability, because their doing what we are demanding right next door so it can be done because it is being done.

When you say similar demographics are you assuming that all black students are the same? What's the poverty rate in some of those other schools? Are any of them selective admission?