National Cathedral Choristers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't mention whether your child is a boy or a girl. This may be obvious, but the experience and commitment level is very different depending on if chorister is a boy or girl. Because the boys age out of the program when their voices change, they can move on to participating fully in other sports and music groups at STA. The girls are committing all the way through high school making sports and other extracurriculars much more difficult although not impossible. Also your entire family's vacation schedule (Christmas and Easter) will revolve around the singing schedule for their entire secondary school career. A truly amazing and unique opportunity but a longer (in terms of years) commitment for the girls

I have had the opportunity of having both a son and a daughter in the program. As you know, the girls program does not start in 4th gade, though the boys do - the entry level year for STA. When the girls start, they are more mature, generally have developed time management skills, are certainly familiar with the school culture and demands, and have a pretty good idea of who they are as people, their interests, their strengths and weaknesses. The boys have none of this starting out. It takes the better part of a year to get fully acclimated. I think because of this, the commitment is actually more onerous for the boys. Granted, it is absolutely a huge commitment and sacrifice for both. But I think all things considered, it is "easier" to be a girl chorister.

I think it is only "easier" for,the girls because they are not bullied relentlessly by their peers for being a chorister. And yes I know not sll boy choristers have been bullied. But many have and some have left the school as a result.

Girls commitment is a six year commtiment. There are many ways to pursue music at NCS and St. Albans. Anglican Church music has a pretty limited appeal.

Do you really want to break down the stipend? $8000 per year for how many hours?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't mention whether your child is a boy or a girl. This may be obvious, but the experience and commitment level is very different depending on if chorister is a boy or girl. Because the boys age out of the program when their voices change, they can move on to participating fully in other sports and music groups at STA. The girls are committing all the way through high school making sports and other extracurriculars much more difficult although not impossible. Also your entire family's vacation schedule (Christmas and Easter) will revolve around the singing schedule for their entire secondary school career. A truly amazing and unique opportunity but a longer (in terms of years) commitment for the girls

I have had the opportunity of having both a son and a daughter in the program. As you know, the girls program does not start in 4th gade, though the boys do - the entry level year for STA. When the girls start, they are more mature, generally have developed time management skills, are certainly familiar with the school culture and demands, and have a pretty good idea of who they are as people, their interests, their strengths and weaknesses. The boys have none of this starting out. It takes the better part of a year to get fully acclimated. I think because of this, the commitment is actually more onerous for the boys. Granted, it is absolutely a huge commitment and sacrifice for both. But I think all things considered, it is "easier" to be a girl chorister.

I think it is only "easier" for,the girls because they are not bullied relentlessly by their peers for being a chorister. And yes I know not sll boy choristers have been bullied. But many have and some have left the school as a result.

Girls commitment is a six year commtiment. There are many ways to pursue music at NCS and St. Albans. Anglican Church music has a pretty limited appeal.

Do you really want to break down the stipend? $8000 per year for how many hours?

Ha. The former Choristers I know are some of the biggest Alpha males out there. A large majority of boys in the lower, middle and upper schools sing in the many choral arts and other musical groups. If you attend the Lessons and Carols service in December, he sheer number of participants is staggering. My point is that yes, there is bullying of boys at STA. But it has nothing to do with a boys interest in choral music. The boys I have known who left the program did so because they school was not a good fit for socially and/or academically. At least 2 boys I am aware of were asked to leave because of discipline issues. Those Chorister people run a tight and rigid ship, and are not very forgiving of boys being boys antics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our DS is a chorister, and it's been the best part of his education at STA.

The funny thing is that the boys moan and groan as they are in it. But for my boy and his friends, when they graduated and looked back at the experience, it was cited as one of the top formative and memorable time of their STA lives.

[Anonymous]

Anglican Church music has a pretty limited appeal.

Not if you are Anglican! And not if you are among the thousands of tourists, worshipers, and concertgoers who visit the Cathedral each year in part to hear this very repertoire in a magnificent setting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don't mention whether your child is a boy or a girl. This may be obvious, but the experience and commitment level is very different depending on if chorister is a boy or girl. Because the boys age out of the program when their voices change, they can move on to participating fully in other sports and music groups at STA. The girls are committing all the way through high school making sports and other extracurriculars much more difficult although not impossible. Also your entire family's vacation schedule (Christmas and Easter) will revolve around the singing schedule for their entire secondary school career. A truly amazing and unique opportunity but a longer (in terms of years) commitment for the girls

I agree the commitment and experience is very different depending on whether you have a son or daughter in the program. It's a choir of pre-adolescent boys and older girls- not a bad mix for the boys. But for the upper school girls much less appealing. The girls are supposed to commit all the way through 12th grade but there are so many other opportunities in upper school (plays,musicals, other singing groups, clubs) many want to quit by then. There isn't a binding commitment to stay through 12th- other than losing the stipend.

It can be a great experience for a certain type of kid. My DD is friends with several and their views on it are vastly different than those expressed by their parents. They sing to an empty ( or nearly empty) cathedral twice a week during evensong and then with a larger audience during church services most of the day every other Sunday - it's very spiritual and peaceful. But not geared towards a child who enjoys the performance aspect of singing. They sit a lot and stand but don't move around much. This can be good discipline for young boys, but isn't great for older girls who spend all day sitting in class. There are fewer girls than boys in each grade so the friendship dynamics can be difficult over the years for the girls. The school does incorporate social skills into the chorister curriculum (they have their own classes for some subjects due to their chorister schedule) to try to address this. My DDs friends also say the school is very accommodating of their time commitment and will let them take tests later and turn homework in late.

[Anonymous]

OP here, my son will enter form C, making me think that this is a good experience for the next couple of years, until sports can begin. He's sporty and musical. His musical interest and skills has allowed him to perform a lot and the post about lots of sitting is a good thing to consider. He hasn't ever been to sleep-away camp and I see that is part of the program. We are meeting with the head of the program to discuss the possibility of him joining and the expectations. I wonder what time kids leave for their rehearsals during the school day. Lots to consider, if he even is considered a good fit for the program. Thanks for all of the input.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't mention whether your child is a boy or a girl. This may be obvious, but the experience and commitment level is very different depending on if chorister is a boy or girl. Because the boys age out of the program when their voices change, they can move on to participating fully in other sports and music groups at STA. The girls are committing all the way through high school making sports and other extracurriculars much more difficult although not impossible. Also your entire family's vacation schedule (Christmas and Easter) will revolve around the singing schedule for their entire secondary school career. A truly amazing and unique opportunity but a longer (in terms of years) commitment for the girls

I agree the commitment and experience is very different depending on whether you have a son or daughter in the program. It's a choir of pre-adolescent boys and older girls- not a bad mix for the boys. But for the upper school girls much less appealing. The girls are supposed to commit all the way through 12th grade but there are so many other opportunities in upper school (plays,musicals, other singing groups, clubs) many want to quit by then. There isn't a binding commitment to stay through 12th- other than losing the stipend.

It can be a great experience for a certain type of kid. My DD is friends with several and their views on it are vastly different than those expressed by their parents. They sing to an empty ( or nearly empty) cathedral twice a week during evensong and then with a larger audience during church services most of the day every other Sunday - it's very spiritual and peaceful. But not geared towards a child who enjoys the performance aspect of singing. They sit a lot and stand but don't move around much. This can be good discipline for young boys, but isn't great for older girls who spend all day sitting in class. There are fewer girls than boys in each grade so the friendship dynamics can be difficult over the years for the girls. The school does incorporate social skills into the chorister curriculum (they have their own classes for some subjects due to their chorister schedule) to try to address this. My DDs friends also say the school is very accommodating of their time commitment and will let them take tests later and turn homework in late.

It's a wonderful program, and whether you are a boy or a girl, I would imagine it is an experience that will mold and define you in some way, shape or form, forever. I must say PP, I was put off a bit by your post. I know you are well meaning, but it was odd to me that you did not even have a child in the program, but still confidently make such a broad suggestion that the "commitment" is somehow lesser for a boy and his family is something I am sure a lot of boys, and their families, who have sacrificed in ways you cannot even imagine, would take issue with. It is a huge commitment for anyone. Period. It is a fantastic experience for anyone. Period. All who participate, sacrifice in some way. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, my son will enter form C, making me think that this is a good experience for the next couple of years, until sports can begin. He's sporty and musical. His musical interest and skills has allowed him to perform a lot and the post about lots of sitting is a good thing to consider. He hasn't ever been to sleep-away camp and I see that is part of the program. We are meeting with the head of the program to discuss the possibility of him joining and the expectations. I wonder what time kids leave for their rehearsals during the school day. Lots to consider, if he even is considered a good fit for the program. Thanks for all of the input.

I think being sporty and musical is a tried and true recipe for the making of a successful student at STA, and a well-rounded man beyond that.

[Anonymous]

It is an amazing and unique program.

Yes, there is a very rigorous schedule. The boys sacrifice in so many ways, as do the parents. But the music education is top notch, skills such as time management and poise/comfort appearing before large crowds developed, and the experiences once-in-a lifetime (performing at too many to list presidential and such events, recording, and singing regularly at the glorious Cathedral as well as other venues such as the Kennedy Center).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have a child in this choir? My child is interested. The practice and performance load looks overwhelming. I'd love to hear from anyone with experience.

Observational -- really big commitment. Doesn't work as well if your child wants to play sports at a committed varsity level. But if voice/choral is the number one extracurricular interest it can be great.

I thought the choir was for pre-adolescent voices.

On the boys side only. The girls go through high school.
Quite competitive and an honor to get in. Provides subsidized tuition and the time commitment is considerable. A side benefit, and not the reason to do it, with appropriate grades, the EC value in applying to colleges is the same as a strongly recruited athlete.

I don't see the girl choristers being recruited like athletes by the more competitive colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here, my son will enter form C, making me think that this is a good experience for the next couple of years, until sports can begin. He's sporty and musical. His musical interest and skills has allowed him to perform a lot and the post about lots of sitting is a good thing to consider. He hasn't ever been to sleep-away camp and I see that is part of the program. We are meeting with the head of the program to discuss the possibility of him joining and the expectations. I wonder what time kids leave for their rehearsals during the school day. Lots to consider, if he even is considered a good fit for the program. Thanks for all of the input.

Good luck, OP. It was a great experience for my son, musically, socially and in terms of developing discipline and maturity. Two things to know--it is typical for boys to continue into 7th grade, so there are a couple of years when after-school sports and choir overlap. The expectation is that choir commitments come first. DS has been fine with missing the occasional STA game or meet, but a travel sport would have been impossible for our family. Please don't go into it with the intention of dropping out after two years...they invest a lot in training the junior boys, and they really need those musically trained, senior boys as singers and leaders to make it all work. The boys rehearse during the school day...it used to be that they missed music and religion class at STA, not sure whether that is still the case. In addition, they stay after school on Tuesdays and Thursdays for rehearsal and evensong. Also, the choir camp is a big highlight for the boys. My son had never done sleepaway camp, either, and he loved it. Hope this helps with your decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your child can only do it for the music. Not the subsidy, not the college boost. It is a superb musical education. It is not only a serious time commitment, it is a serious musical commitment. It is also a family commitment. Every vacation you take will be determined by the Choir schedule. I think the commitment is less reasonable for a high school student. I think the commitment and sacrifices are more acceptable for middle school.

The subsidy is not really a factor. It is 25% of tuition. Some of the opportunities are nice but much of it is just a really long day singing church music.

I would speak to former chorister parents. They might be the most honest.

When you consider the number of hours put into the commitment, by both the boy and his parents, it comes out to about 10 cents per hour. No one does it for the money. You (actually your son) really have to be passionate about choral arts/music and be quite talented to seriously think about it.

You have 2 separate applications. One to Choristers. The other for admission to the school. They really are separate. I know of many boys who try out for Choristers, do not make the cut, but go to STA anyway. I also know of talented singers who had the musical skills but nonetheless did not get admitted to STA because they could not make the academic cut. By the way, the tryout process is also very intense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our DS is a chorister, and it's been the best part of his education at STA.

+1000

The Chorister program is an amazing program. The music education is on another scale altogether. And the opportunities to sing in addition to the Cathedral services -- which by themselves are an incredible experience -- are jaw dropping (Carnegie Hall, Kennedy Center, Vice President's House, etc.).

But yes it is INTENSE.

The Chorister Program tries to work closely with the school to avoid or minimize conflicts. But yes, if there is a choir commitment and a sports commitment, choir trumps sports. That said, every year there are at least 1-2 boys who are tremendously talented athletes, who participate not only in school sports but travel/club team commitments. It is not easy to coordinate all of this and school, but it is do-able, and one of the many great things the boys necessarily learn as a Chorister is time management.

Most of the boys who age out of the Chorister Program stay with the school. At that point, they have become such a fabric of the STA community, that it is hard to transition out. It does happen, but usually for the boys for whom academics were already taking a heavy toll. I would say the overwhelming majority of the boys do stay through graduation, and along the way they put their musical skills to great use, in the form of participation in the many different choir and singing groups in high school and musical theater.

I have always found the Chorister boys to be some of the most well-rounded and highly accomplished boys on the Close.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

My son graduated from the chorister program a number of years ago, and I attended yesterday afternoon the Sta and Ncs spring concert. I saw every chorister I remembered from those years in the chorale and a Capella groups. I am told that many of these boys are student leaders, top notch varsity athletes, and of course heavily involved in the arts. If the chorister program is part of the reason these talented young men are at sta, then that's yet another reason the school should more fully support and finance the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son graduated from the chorister program a number of years ago, and I attended yesterday afternoon the Sta and Ncs spring concert. I saw every chorister I remembered from those years in the chorale and a Capella groups. I am told that many of these boys are student leaders, top notch varsity athletes, and of course heavily involved in the arts. If the chorister program is part of the reason these talented young men are at sta, then that's yet another reason the school should more fully support and finance the program.

I was not at the concert, but I am friends with a number of families who had choristers. Now in middle and high school, I think it is fun to see how a number of these boys have gone on to be star soccer, lacrosse, football, wrestling and track athletes. Puts the negative stereotypes of timid choir boys on its head, and reinforces the notion of Muscular Christianity that is at the core of the school.