Fed Jobs - What's negotiable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I took my fed job I had over 15 years prior experience. I had 24 days of vacation in my private sector position. Two graduate degrees and passed the bar. I was expecting a higher end of the pay scale but they offered the low end. I asked about negotiating the pay/vacation time. I also need to postpone my start date a few weeks because I didn't have anyone to take care of my kids and it was summer time. The recruiter told me... and I quote "take it or leave it... we are in a depression and I can get someone else... I need to know by the end of the day." I was very shocked by his attitude. I was out of work so I took it.

After I joined I spoke with other people that got hired the same month as me..... one girl was able to negotiate her salary and start date. She had no prior work experience and was given the same salary as me. Another girl was able to delay her start date because she wanted her kid to start school first. I can only surmise that because I'm a man they didn't want to negotiate but they wanted to negotiate with females.

...or it was just a different HR person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I took my fed job I had over 15 years prior experience. I had 24 days of vacation in my private sector position. Two graduate degrees and passed the bar. I was expecting a higher end of the pay scale but they offered the low end. I asked about negotiating the pay/vacation time. I also need to postpone my start date a few weeks because I didn't have anyone to take care of my kids and it was summer time. The recruiter told me... and I quote "take it or leave it... we are in a depression and I can get someone else... I need to know by the end of the day." I was very shocked by his attitude. I was out of work so I took it.

After I joined I spoke with other people that got hired the same month as me..... one girl was able to negotiate her salary and start date. She had no prior work experience and was given the same salary as me. Another girl was able to delay her start date because she wanted her kid to start school first. I can only surmise that because I'm a man they didn't want to negotiate but they wanted to negotiate with females.

Maybe you aren't a good negotiator?

[Anonymous]

It depends on the agency and the office. I was able to come in at a step 3 as opposed to a step 1, however I had a friend try the same at another agency and she was told no.

[Anonymous]

Salary may be negotiable but typically only a step or two within the grade. The reason the pay bands are so wide these days is to get people from private industry, who may be paid more (and some come with many years of experience) into the range. The feds will almost always start someone off at the low end of the range unless you can prove you were paid more. Bring in your most recent w2 and they will typically match it.

Benefits are rigid but some are offered cafeteria style. Keep in mind the benefits are much more attractive than in industry. One of the key ones is the work/life balance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Getting your foot in the door is the hardest part as a fed. Just because you see a position posted that would be perfect for you, doesn't mean you will make the cert, get an interview and get an offer. You also need to take into consideration that it does start out at 4 hours of leave per pay period (approx. 2.6 weeks) which can possibly be negotiated to 6 (4 weeks). You also get a pension AND a 401K (TSP). You will be competing against internal candidates who potentially really know the program or the hiring officials as well as vets, who (rightfully so) get preference. I would not make $4 your battle to chose. If you are offered a position, you can potentially discuss a higher step increase to match your current salary, but they may or may not match it.

If you are a contractor at the agency you are applying for negotiations are a lot easier. The agency will do everything they can to match what you currently make and how much leave you currently get. When I 'flipped' my agency matched my salary and my leave. I was coming from a consulting company that offered similar perks as the fed so I was going to flip unless they matched my pay. As it was my health insurance premiums went up when I went from private sector to fed for the same coverage.

[Anonymous]

*was not going to flip

[Anonymous]

Lots of good advice here. If you want more leave to start, prove that you have the equivalent number of years to earn 6 or 8 hrs as someone working in that fed job would have -- not just your work experience in general.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I took my fed job I had over 15 years prior experience. I had 24 days of vacation in my private sector position. Two graduate degrees and passed the bar. I was expecting a higher end of the pay scale but they offered the low end. I asked about negotiating the pay/vacation time. I also need to postpone my start date a few weeks because I didn't have anyone to take care of my kids and it was summer time. The recruiter told me... and I quote "take it or leave it... we are in a depression and I can get someone else... I need to know by the end of the day." I was very shocked by his attitude. I was out of work so I took it.

After I joined I spoke with other people that got hired the same month as me..... one girl was able to negotiate her salary and start date. She had no prior work experience and was given the same salary as me. Another girl was able to delay her start date because she wanted her kid to start school first. I can only surmise that because I'm a man they didn't want to negotiate but they wanted to negotiate with females.

Maybe you aren't a good negotiator?

Or maybe people don't want to work with a tool who calls grown a$$ women girls. Just a thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting your foot in the door is the hardest part as a fed. Just because you see a position posted that would be perfect for you, doesn't mean you will make the cert, get an interview and get an offer. You also need to take into consideration that it does start out at 4 hours of leave per pay period (approx. 2.6 weeks) which can possibly be negotiated to 6 (4 weeks). You also get a pension AND a 401K (TSP). You will be competing against internal candidates who potentially really know the program or the hiring officials as well as vets, who (rightfully so) get preference. I would not make $4 your battle to chose. If you are offered a position, you can potentially discuss a higher step increase to match your current salary, but they may or may not match it.

If you are a contractor at the agency you are applying for negotiations are a lot easier. The agency will do everything they can to match what you currently make and how much leave you currently get. When I 'flipped' my agency matched my salary and my leave. I was coming from a consulting company that offered similar perks as the fed so I was going to flip unless they matched my pay. As it was my health insurance premiums went up when I went from private sector to fed for the same coverage.

I don't care how good a consultant is. If I bring them on board as a fed, they're coming in at a step 1. Contractors are usually paid more because of decreased benefits/job insecurity. Why would I match their pay and increase their benefits?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I took my fed job I had over 15 years prior experience. I had 24 days of vacation in my private sector position. Two graduate degrees and passed the bar. I was expecting a higher end of the pay scale but they offered the low end. I asked about negotiating the pay/vacation time. I also need to postpone my start date a few weeks because I didn't have anyone to take care of my kids and it was summer time. The recruiter told me... and I quote "take it or leave it... we are in a depression and I can get someone else... I need to know by the end of the day." I was very shocked by his attitude. I was out of work so I took it.

After I joined I spoke with other people that got hired the same month as me..... one girl was able to negotiate her salary and start date. She had no prior work experience and was given the same salary as me. Another girl was able to delay her start date because she wanted her kid to start school first. I can only surmise that because I'm a man they didn't want to negotiate but they wanted to negotiate with females.

Maybe you aren't a good negotiator?

Or maybe people don't want to work with a tool who calls grown a$$ women girls. Just a thought.

Exactly!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Salary may be negotiable but typically only a step or two within the grade. The reason the pay bands are so wide these days is to get people from private industry, who may be paid more (and some come with many years of experience) into the range. The feds will almost always start someone off at the low end of the range unless you can prove you were paid more. Bring in your most recent w2 and they will typically match it.

Benefits are rigid but some are offered cafeteria style. Keep in mind the benefits are much more attractive than in industry. One of the key ones is the work/life balance.

I call B.S. on this.

1. my medical coverage went up 200 per month when I went fed with higher deductibles and worse coverage.
a. braces are not covered unless I've been on the plan for three years. Not the case at previous employer.
b. boss wants to know "why" I need medical leave... as in asks me "why are you going to the doctor" which is totally inappropriate.
2. my vacation went from 4 weeks to two weeks when I went fed.
3. My work hours went from 50hrs per week to nearly 70 hrs per week for less pay so I have much LESS work life balance.

[Anonymous]

In my agency there was no negotiating leave. As to step, for positions I'm familiar with (excepted service/ attorneys), you were given the step closest to your previous salary, conditioned on the grade at which the position was advertised.

So coming from BigLaw (making $150k/yr+) you'd come in as a 14/10 unless you qualified as a national/subject matter expert and the position was announced as a 14/15. In some cases you might come in as a 15/10.

In my case coming from a small private firm nearly 30 yrs ago I came in as a GS-13 step 6 (it was a GS-13/14 position), which was a few hundred $ more than my private firm salary. The General Counsel said I was one of the only people he'd seen who got a raise coming out of private practice (we joked about my firm's pay scale being somewhat low).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In my agency there was no negotiating leave. As to step, for positions I'm familiar with (excepted service/ attorneys), you were given the step closest to your previous salary, conditioned on the grade at which the position was advertised.

So coming from BigLaw (making $150k/yr+) you'd come in as a 14/10 unless you qualified as a national/subject matter expert and the position was announced as a 14/15. In some cases you might come in as a 15/10.

In my case coming from a small private firm nearly 30 yrs ago I came in as a GS-13 step 6 (it was a GS-13/14 position), which was a few hundred $ more than my private firm salary. The General Counsel said I was one of the only people he'd seen who got a raise coming out of private practice (we joked about my firm's pay scale being somewhat low).

I got effed on pay. We have this hiring matrix so I went from $200K at Biglaw to $110K at my agency. Still worth the move but I'm jealous of all those people that come in at 14 and 15 step 10. The only upside is that I'm at a financial regulator so I top out at around $200K many years down the line.

[Anonymous]

I was just hired for an entry level position and was able to negotiate step 8 of the top grade on the posting. Based on pay stubs showing I make a lot more and the fact that I'm way overqualified for the position. Was told that vacation was not negotiable at this agency but I know from friends who work at others that it's negotiable some places. Never hurts to ask. Know that HR will treat your efforts to negotiate as declining the offer. That was strange and a bit nerve wracking for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting your foot in the door is the hardest part as a fed. Just because you see a position posted that would be perfect for you, doesn't mean you will make the cert, get an interview and get an offer. You also need to take into consideration that it does start out at 4 hours of leave per pay period (approx. 2.6 weeks) which can possibly be negotiated to 6 (4 weeks). You also get a pension AND a 401K (TSP). You will be competing against internal candidates who potentially really know the program or the hiring officials as well as vets, who (rightfully so) get preference. I would not make $4 your battle to chose. If you are offered a position, you can potentially discuss a higher step increase to match your current salary, but they may or may not match it.

If you are a contractor at the agency you are applying for negotiations are a lot easier. The agency will do everything they can to match what you currently make and how much leave you currently get. When I 'flipped' my agency matched my salary and my leave. I was coming from a consulting company that offered similar perks as the fed so I was going to flip unless they matched my pay. As it was my health insurance premiums went up when I went from private sector to fed for the same coverage.

I don't care how good a consultant is. If I bring them on board as a fed, they're coming in at a step 1. Contractors are usually paid more because of decreased benefits/job insecurity. Why would I match their pay and increase their benefits?

Hey, beggars can't be choosers. My agency has an aging population and needed younger folks with a very specific skillset. When they offered us consultants an opportunity to flip, all 4 of us came in at higher steps commensurate with out current salaries at the time. I personally would not have 'flipped' had they not matched my salary. If they want me, they'll have to meet my at my terms -- take me or leave me Uncle Sam.