What's at the end of the learning rainbow?
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Anonymous
I'm the PP quoted at the top -- we have definitely seen a difference in how the process of writing has been taught and then enforced in non-AAP vs. AAP schools. Sadly, my 4th grader (AAP) has received better writing instruction than my 6th grader (non AAP). I am very seriously considering putting 6th grader into a summer writing "camp" with Fairfax Collegiate this summer to make up for the lack of grammar/structure or to hire a tutor for DC for the summer. This is a child who scored in the 99th percentile for verbal ability on the CogAT, but didn't make the pool back in 2nd grade. We didn't push it -- we didn't know. It might just be this particular ES school (the non-AAP one), but the standards have been pretty lackluster and we are now seeing that DC is falling behind the 4th grader (who is in AAP). |
Anonymous
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The end of the rainbow for me is a thoughtful, inquisitive kid who can think for themselves by using their acquired base of knowledge and extending off of that with logic, deductive and intuitive reasoning. I want them to be better than me.
I think most highly successful people around these parts expect their kids to go to the Ivies and equivalents (UVA, WM, Cal, Duke, Rice, Vandy, NU, etc etc) and they probably sort of expect a graduate degree in addition to that. Maybe I'm foolish and naive, but I expect my K kid to be in AAP if that program is taking the top 10-15% of their cohorts. I also expect them to have a decent chance at getting into TJ (50%?) but whether they get in or whether they choose to go is not as important. I mean, basically, if you grew up and attended GT programs, went to Ivies, did well for yourself then you pretty much see that as a reasonable, attainable baseline for your kids as well. |
Anonymous
Except as many parents who went to Ivies are finding, it's gotten so much more competitive that their kids are not going to find that an attainable baseline. I'm not sure I'd get into my top 10 college now and I can bet my kids wouldn't. As smart and bright and inquisitive as they are, they're not the brightest kids with the most unique talents and impressive extracurriculars. They don't spend every waking hour trying to get all A's and make sure they're the president of every organization they're involved in. And increasingly, from competitive HS schools in this area, those are the kids who are cherry-picked to attend, what I guess are called elite schools. As for TJ, currently the admissions rate is about 16%. |
Anonymous
Wow. My 9th and 11th graders are extraordinary writers and they just came up the old Gen Ed route. Their AAP sibling on the other hand struggled in writing and ultimately took a summer class. If your child doesn't write well, I don't see it being a gen ed v. aap thing. It's been our experience that writing is really emphasized throughout the FCPS curriculum. More likely it could be your child's teachers or a hang up he's developed (btw, "enforce" is a word that should never go with writing unless the goal is to write badly -- writing requires practice, but isn't like drilling in math problems. ) I think you're right that a different voice -- ie. a summer class, is probably not a bad idea. |
Anonymous
I don't know about your school, but my school's admission classes have grown pretty much with the rate of population growth in the US - yes, there are more foreign students in the incoming class than 25 years ago, but relatively minuscule in the grand scheme of things and the number of slots pretty much has kept pace with population, so if the kids are in the top X% of their cohorts then they will have a slot and get in. Are incoming freshman SAT/ACT etc scores improving over time - certainly, but that is because everyone is doing better. The same schools are taking the same group of 99%tile kids. You really should not look at scores but rather percentiles. Did your college average move from taking 90%tile to 95%? If so then that school has changed and has gotten tougher - I would bet most schools that are "elite" have not become more selective percentile wise. You see admission rates decrease because you're seeing a higher number of people applying to (more and more) schools, not the schools being more selective. Would my SATs get me into my college 25 years later? No. But if I grew up 25 years later my SAT scores would have improved. Why? I have no idea - grade inflation, easy testing, better schooling, lots of reasons. And TJ admission rate is 16% but that is because a lot of kids who should not apply are applying. There is nothing wrong with kids on the fringe giving it a shot and putting their name in the hat. But admission rates for kids who on paper 'look' like a TJ kid [based on scores on standardized testing] would be much higher than that I imagine. |
Anonymous
Positive thinking is good, I suppose. Who knows what the landscape will look like when today's kindergartner's go to college. When my kids were young they were saying that things would be less competitive by now. They're more competitive than ever. But I think you're going to be surprised that the elite schools in particular are much tougher to crack then they used to be. |
Anonymous
I know these numbers aren't ideal (instate vs outstate, total enrollment, etc.), but look at a place like UVA undergrad. 1990 total enrollment is ~11,300 2014 total enrollment is ~15,400 VA population 1990 is ~ 6.2m VA population 2014 is ~ 8.3m Expected 2014 enrollment based on 1990 rates is ~15,100 so basically UVA stayed the same or got slightly bigger than the rate of growth of VA. Again, rough numbers because of instate/outstate and all that jazz but it is just as easy/hard to get admitted in 1990 vs 2014. Now paying for it is a different matter.. |
Anonymous
By "enforce" I mean that the teacher corrects mistakes or telling the child that they have to correct mistakes and turn the work back in.... thereby "enforcing" the rules of grammar or the process of writing a paragraph or essay. My 4th grader will tell you exactly what the formula is for writing a paragraph (opening idea in first sentence, three sentences supporting that idea and one sentence to wrap it up) -- and my 6th grader has apparently never heard of such a process/formula. Same goes to writing a 5 paragraph essay. Fourth grader has been taught the PROCESS of writing. Sixth grader has always just been encouraged to write in her journal at school with little structure required --they say they don't want to stifle the child's creativity, so they don't want to worry about spelling or grammar. I've helped edit writing products for the 4th grade AAP and the 6th grade (nonAAP). The 4th graders were as good or better than the 6th graders (not just my child) b/c they were following a formula. The 6th graders should have been using an outline but they were just throwing info all over the place without relating or connecting ideas. And don't get me started on how my 6th grader didn't know it was an actual grammar rule that you can't start a sentence with a number (i.e. "7"). I could say the same things about math --- non AAP school is all "correct your own work" -- which means DC just floats through the fact that her answers aren't the same as what the teacher puts on board for the correct answers. AAP kid's homework is corrected by the teacher and sent back with a grade.... if too many are wrong, DC is required to correct and turn it back in.... that's "enforcement" in my mind. It's the difference b/t "whatever you feel like doing" and "this counts so get with the program." |
Anonymous
Sorry that's been your experience. My Gen Ed kids have always had teachers correct their grammar/spelling and they don't seem to make that many mistakes. i think it's probably because they both read so much. As for math, I do think the strength of the teachers can vary by school, not whether AAP or Gen Ed. |
Anonymous
apples and oranges, I think. the rate of growth says nothing about the caliber of kid who applies to UVA. Virginia standardized test scores are well above the national average, so if you think it's not more competitive to get into UVA now, try asking any counselor at a local high school. |
Anonymous
They are the same caliber of kids - top X% of the class kids. You're telling me 25 years ago VIrginia kids didnt score higher that the national avg on stnd tests? Of course they did, just like now. This is like saying cars cost more today than 25 years ago without accounting for inflation. Except here it is grade and test score inflation |
Anonymous
Not to the degree they do now. There are many more people applying to UVA -- both inside and outside of Virginia than in in the past. With college costs so expensive there are also a heckuva lot more kids who are limited to in-state university -- hence it IS more difficult to get into UVA now than it was 20+ years ago |