Oppositional Defiance or just contrarian?

[Anonymous]

OP- how old is your son?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP- how old is your son?

He's 10

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree that you need help in any case. ODD has always seemed like a really questionable diagnosis to me.

Only questionable because you don't live it everyday. Granted, doctors say it is too early to determine if DS has ODD or a mood disorder that may morph into something more serious with age. OP, if you question ODD or contrarian, chances are the answer is contrarian. ODD is not just when a child disagrees with a parent. It is constant disagreement over almost everything- from food to homework to minor aspects of life---- challenging every rule. A "disagreement" ranges from verbal arguments to destruction of property to physical altercations. If your spouse did the same things as an ODD child, you could press charges or at least file for divorce. With a child, treatment is therapy and medication and more therapy. There are good days and bad days but I guarantee you that our good days would look like a bad day in a regular home. ODD means that you always have a safety plan in the home and a backup plan if you desire to go out, even to run errands.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/oppositional-defiant-disorder/basics/symptoms/con-20024559

We are prayerful that the intense therapies (including several hospitalizations) and medication will eventually help- before DS's behavior gets him locked up or worse. And we rely heavily on support groups to get through daily life because it is like living in a war zone. Always on edge because you never know what will set DS off.

OP here. Thanks for this insight. DS basically says the opposite of what we say. For example, if we're walking up the stairs and I say, "the stairs are dirty," he'd respond, "they're not dirty." If I say, "it's suppose to rain tomorrow," he'd say, "no I heard it's going to be sunny." It's with just about everything and causes many arguments. Frustrating, especially to coaches and teachers.

OP- I didn't see if you mentioned whether your son has ADHD? Being oppositional and argumentative are extremely common traits of ADHD. It can go up and down-- we've found with our 3rd grader that there are some days when every little thing is a fight, and others when he's delightful to be around.

When DS was in preschool we considered ODD because DS was extremely defiant, and often became aggressive and destructive during meltdowns. I did a lot of reading about emerging ODD (DS was too young obviously for a diagnosis) and learned quite a bit.

Children are different, but kids with ODD tend to have significant trouble with friendships, a high tolerance for conflict, problems with empathy, and will go the distance to get their way (even over small things) without insight into how it is affecting the big picture of their day and relationships. A ten year old with ODD would likely become aggressive, destructive, dishonest, and often seem to act without remorse. We know that the reasons are probably related to extreme deficits in social skills, inflexibility, impulsivity, etc. Kids with ADHD may have some level of these characteristics that can lead to oppositional behaviors (arguing, disrespect, etc.)-- but they may act within some rules of engagement, and truly not seek the conflict, and care about the needs of other people. Of course ADHD and ODD are an extremely common combination-- but they do not always go hand in hand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree that you need help in any case. ODD has always seemed like a really questionable diagnosis to me.

Only questionable because you don't live it everyday. Granted, doctors say it is too early to determine if DS has ODD or a mood disorder that may morph into something more serious with age. OP, if you question ODD or contrarian, chances are the answer is contrarian. ODD is not just when a child disagrees with a parent. It is constant disagreement over almost everything- from food to homework to minor aspects of life---- challenging every rule. A "disagreement" ranges from verbal arguments to destruction of property to physical altercations. If your spouse did the same things as an ODD child, you could press charges or at least file for divorce. With a child, treatment is therapy and medication and more therapy. There are good days and bad days but I guarantee you that our good days would look like a bad day in a regular home. ODD means that you always have a safety plan in the home and a backup plan if you desire to go out, even to run errands.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/oppositional-defiant-disorder/basics/symptoms/con-20024559

We are prayerful that the intense therapies (including several hospitalizations) and medication will eventually help- before DS's behavior gets him locked up or worse. And we rely heavily on support groups to get through daily life because it is like living in a war zone. Always on edge because you never know what will set DS off.

OP here. Thanks for this insight. DS basically says the opposite of what we say. For example, if we're walking up the stairs and I say, "the stairs are dirty," he'd respond, "they're not dirty." If I say, "it's suppose to rain tomorrow," he'd say, "no I heard it's going to be sunny." It's with just about everything and causes many arguments. Frustrating, especially to coaches and teachers.

OP- I didn't see if you mentioned whether your son has ADHD? Being oppositional and argumentative are extremely common traits of ADHD. It can go up and down-- we've found with our 3rd grader that there are some days when every little thing is a fight, and others when he's delightful to be around.

When DS was in preschool we considered ODD because DS was extremely defiant, and often became aggressive and destructive during meltdowns. I did a lot of reading about emerging ODD (DS was too young obviously for a diagnosis) and learned quite a bit.

Children are different, but kids with ODD tend to have significant trouble with friendships, a high tolerance for conflict, problems with empathy, and will go the distance to get their way (even over small things) without insight into how it is affecting the big picture of their day and relationships. A ten year old with ODD would likely become aggressive, destructive, dishonest, and often seem to act without remorse. We know that the reasons are probably related to extreme deficits in social skills, inflexibility, impulsivity, etc. Kids with ADHD may have some level of these characteristics that can lead to oppositional behaviors (arguing, disrespect, etc.)-- but they may act within some rules of engagement, and truly not seek the conflict, and care about the needs of other people. Of course ADHD and ODD are an extremely common combination-- but they do not always go hand in hand.

OP-- pp here again. I wanted to add first, that of course, no, I don't think that your DS has ODD. I don't know what is going on, but CBT or social skills groups can be helpful when these issues are affecting functioning. It seems like this is the case because it's happening outside your home. It sounds like, regardless of what the cause, your son needs some positive strategies relating to other people. Arguing and knee jerk reactions for conflict are not constructive and can ultimately cost him friends and the goodwill of adults. At ten, he is probably pre-pubescent which may be behind some of these tendencies. I've noticed oppositional behavior going up or down depending on the developmental stage. Again, however, because of your DS's age, adults aren't going to be cool with the arguments and obviously, friendships are very important for self esteem.

[Anonymous]

We have a DS who meets the criteria for ODD but it's secondary to his ADHD and LD. He's generally a very sensitive, empathic kid but will go into full battle mode if we ask him to do something and he doesn't feel like it (poor transitions) or if he perceives injustice (very black & white thinker). He gets emotionally stuck and may destroy property, threaten to hurt/kill himself, scream "I hate you!", etc, etc. He also sometimes gets in moods where he deliberately antagonizes people though he never actually sets out to hurt anyone. His psychologist feels he falls into the majority of kids with ODD who will outgrow the behavior as he matures and, at 8, he has already made significant strides. His anxiety medication also helps. He's also sometimes the sweetest, most helpful, loving kid ever ... it really has to do with his poor emotional regulation and ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. DS is, however, a nice kid. Compassionate, good friendships, doesn't intentionally disobey, not rude, he's just says the opposite.

I worry that so many parents here jump to some medical issue for a kid who seems to enjoy getting a kick out of being contrarian. He's a kid. Some kids are exhausting. Just because the parents don't want to deal with the contrariness, doesn't mean you need to get medical help.

OP, have you explained to your 10-year old that his behavior is not appropriate? That there are negative consequences to contradicting everything you say? Frankly, if he has good friendships, he's obviously not contradicting everyone all the time--it's just you.