What is a good GPA at Sidwell?

[Anonymous]

I would tend to agree. Legacy kids with a 3.5 out of Sidwell have a good shot if they have good test scores. I assume the same is true for athletes and URMs. Otherwise, I think you need to get a little beyond that -- maybe to the 3.6/3.7 range. I think kids who get mostly As at Sidwell (even A-s) can be competitive for most schools if they test well and are otherwise interesting candidates. I would also say that some of the schools on this list -- Williams, Amherst Swarthmore -- can be just as hard to get into as the Ivies unless you apply early decision. There is a big range here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're claiming a 3.5 unhooked kid has a shot at HYPS, you're crazy. What are you considering a "top" school?

I would agree, although I wouldn't express it quite so forcefully! I would also agree those 3.5 students can get into some great schools that I'd consider "top" in the big picture. However, if folks think that a student with a 3.5 GPA who does not have one of the big hooks (such as legacy, recruited athlete) has a good chance at the most sought-after schools (HYPS, Duke, other Ivies) I do think they are setting themselves up for disappointment. Obviously there are exceptions, but people need to be realistic, and the sooner they realize that a top 10 school isn't the only "top" school, the happier and more relaxed the student (and parents) will be. Plenty of wonderful schools such as Davidson, Pomona, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Amherst, Williams, UVA, UNC, U. Michigan, Wake Forest, Macalester, Carleton, Claremont McKenna, the Service Academies, Haverford, Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Rice, Wash. U, Georgetown, Notre Dame, just to name some.

Generally agree, though, a rigorous courseload can be a critical plus factor for an unhooked kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're claiming a 3.5 unhooked kid has a shot at HYPS, you're crazy. What are you considering a "top" school?

I would agree, although I wouldn't express it quite so forcefully! I would also agree those 3.5 students can get into some great schools that I'd consider "top" in the big picture. However, if folks think that a student with a 3.5 GPA who does not have one of the big hooks (such as legacy, recruited athlete) has a good chance at the most sought-after schools (HYPS, Duke, other Ivies) I do think they are setting themselves up for disappointment. Obviously there are exceptions, but people need to be realistic, and the sooner they realize that a top 10 school isn't the only "top" school, the happier and more relaxed the student (and parents) will be. Plenty of wonderful schools such as Davidson, Pomona, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Amherst, Williams, UVA, UNC, U. Michigan, Wake Forest, Macalester, Carleton, Claremont McKenna, the Service Academies, Haverford, Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Rice, Wash. U, Georgetown, Notre Dame, just to name some.

Generally agree, though, a rigorous courseload can be a critical plus factor for an unhooked kid.

Agreed. I have also over the years occasionally seen acceptances by the HYPS type schools student who was truly brilliant (creative genius type) in one discipline (e.g., humanities), but not so strong in the other discipline (which was reflected in the GPA). This would be the type of student whose teacher would write something like "one of the best writers I have ever taught in my career." Sometimes real and exciting brilliance in one subject can offset a lack of academic excellence across the board. I have seen MIT do this for STEM students and Yale for the humanities, and the University of Chicago also seems quite interested in students with very interesting minds (and correspondingly more willing to depart from just accepting those with the highest GPA\test score axis).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you're claiming a 3.5 unhooked kid has a shot at HYPS, you're crazy. What are you considering a "top" school?

I would agree, although I wouldn't express it quite so forcefully! I would also agree those 3.5 students can get into some great schools that I'd consider "top" in the big picture. However, if folks think that a student with a 3.5 GPA who does not have one of the big hooks (such as legacy, recruited athlete) has a good chance at the most sought-after schools (HYPS, Duke, other Ivies) I do think they are setting themselves up for disappointment. Obviously there are exceptions, but people need to be realistic, and the sooner they realize that a top 10 school isn't the only "top" school, the happier and more relaxed the student (and parents) will be. Plenty of wonderful schools such as Davidson, Pomona, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Amherst, Williams, UVA, UNC, U. Michigan, Wake Forest, Macalester, Carleton, Claremont McKenna, the Service Academies, Haverford, Swarthmore, Wesleyan, Johns Hopkins, Northwestern, Rice, Wash. U, Georgetown, Notre Dame, just to name some.

Generally agree, though, a rigorous courseload can be a critical plus factor for an unhooked kid.

Agreed. I have also over the years occasionally seen acceptances by the HYPS type schools student who was truly brilliant (creative genius type) in one discipline (e.g., humanities), but not so strong in the other discipline (which was reflected in the GPA). This would be the type of student whose teacher would write something like "one of the best writers I have ever taught in my career." Sometimes real and exciting brilliance in one subject can offset a lack of academic excellence across the board. I have seen MIT do this for STEM students and Yale for the humanities, and the University of Chicago also seems quite interested in students with very interesting minds (and correspondingly more willing to depart from just accepting those with the highest GPA\test score axis).

Yes -- agree that recommendations can also be a major plus for this type of kid. This is particularly true for Chicago -- and the "unCommon" essay there can also allow this type of student to shine.

[Anonymous]

I'm a teacher and can say that what we're told -- recommendations matter -- really seems to be true. Over my career I've had colleges directly contact me at times to thank me for a letter or respond to my offer of being willing to talk more about the student. Knowing my letters are really being read, and can make a difference, really motivates me to do the best I can to support my students with my recommendation letters.

The strength of recommendation letters is definitely something not easily captured in Naviance scattergrams -- it would be a mistake NOT to pay attention to the numbers, but there is also more to the process.

Lastly, every year I see some kids coming out of the college process who are disappointed -- they aim high and get a batch of waiting lists (way more common than when I started teaching) and rejections from the top 10 schools, and sort of reluctantly try to get excited about the schools to which they have been admitted. And then 99% of them, when they come back at Thanksgiving or Winter Break, are thrilled with their choice and doing such amazing and interesting things (way more impressive than what I recall doing in college!). And the few kids who feel like a fish out of water at their original school often transfer and are thrilled with where they end up. Honestly, it usually does work out. They are so well prepared for the next step and the more they realize that, the more they grow in confidence and shrug off the December or April sting of a rejection letter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher and can say that what we're told -- recommendations matter -- really seems to be true. Over my career I've had colleges directly contact me at times to thank me for a letter or respond to my offer of being willing to talk more about the student. Knowing my letters are really being read, and can make a difference, really motivates me to do the best I can to support my students with my recommendation letters.

The strength of recommendation letters is definitely something not easily captured in Naviance scattergrams -- it would be a mistake NOT to pay attention to the numbers, but there is also more to the process.

Lastly, every year I see some kids coming out of the college process who are disappointed -- they aim high and get a batch of waiting lists (way more common than when I started teaching) and rejections from the top 10 schools, and sort of reluctantly try to get excited about the schools to which they have been admitted. And then 99% of them, when they come back at Thanksgiving or Winter Break, are thrilled with their choice and doing such amazing and interesting things (way more impressive than what I recall doing in college!). And the few kids who feel like a fish out of water at their original school often transfer and are thrilled with where they end up. Honestly, it usually does work out. They are so well prepared for the next step and the more they realize that, the more they grow in confidence and shrug off the December or April sting of a rejection letter.

Thank You , PP !!!

Jeff, if you could have a " post of the year " under the DCUM logo on the website opening page, this post should go there. Especially, at this time of year. These poor teens with crazed parents need to read and re-read and re-read this message

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher and can say that what we're told -- recommendations matter -- really seems to be true. Over my career I've had colleges directly contact me at times to thank me for a letter or respond to my offer of being willing to talk more about the student. Knowing my letters are really being read, and can make a difference, really motivates me to do the best I can to support my students with my recommendation letters.

The strength of recommendation letters is definitely something not easily captured in Naviance scattergrams -- it would be a mistake NOT to pay attention to the numbers, but there is also more to the process.

Lastly, every year I see some kids coming out of the college process who are disappointed -- they aim high and get a batch of waiting lists (way more common than when I started teaching) and rejections from the top 10 schools, and sort of reluctantly try to get excited about the schools to which they have been admitted. And then 99% of them, when they come back at Thanksgiving or Winter Break, are thrilled with their choice and doing such amazing and interesting things (way more impressive than what I recall doing in college!). And the few kids who feel like a fish out of water at their original school often transfer and are thrilled with where they end up. Honestly, it usually does work out. They are so well prepared for the next step and the more they realize that, the more they grow in confidence and shrug off the December or April sting of a rejection letter.

Excellent points here -- very true IME both as a teacher and as a parent high school and college students.

[Anonymous]

I would also agree with the importance of recommendation letters. Some Sidwell students are very bright and passionate, but it does not show in the GPAs. It requires a high level of executive function to get through Sidwell, and some students have not matured to that level. Recommendations can help overcome those weaknesses. I know students with GPAs in the B- range who got into excellent colleges because of strong testing and recommendations. Not Ivies, but excellent smaller schools. Colleges know that if you have made it through Sidwell, you will do fine in college.

[Anonymous]

Our DD's were completely unhooked (except for the school one was wait listed at, where DD was a double legacy!) with GPAs of 3.7-3.8, they were athletes but not recruited to d1 Ivy programs (one could have walked on but chose not to). They did take the most challenging tracks of courses, were for sure leaders in their various extracurricular activities, but really I think their academic passions/engagement are what got them in. They did have really close relationships with some teachers and did independent study or special projects with them, which were I am sure reflected in really personal and strong recommendations. One had the same person as her counselor as her English teacher which I think also helped make the process more personal. They were lucky for sure, but really, every year from Sidwell and from the other top local schools, plenty of kids get into really great schools without hooks, it is just a very almost random process at times, but mostly seems to go very well for my DDs and their friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would also agree with the importance of recommendation letters. Some Sidwell students are very bright and passionate, but it does not show in the GPAs. It requires a high level of executive function to get through Sidwell, and some students have not matured to that level. Recommendations can help overcome those weaknesses. I know students with GPAs in the B- range who got into excellent colleges because of strong testing and recommendations. Not Ivies, but excellent smaller schools. Colleges know that if you have made it through Sidwell, you will do fine in college.

And if your parents could afford to put you through Sidwell, they are probably willing and able to pay full tuition for college. Not knocking Sidwell -- the same is true wrt other expensive private day schools. And not discounting the importance of knowing that they're admitting a capable student. But money matters in this situation -- as does the perception that college X is considered a respectable destination for kids from schools like Sidwell.

[Anonymous]

My daughter is on significant FA, so this is not a factor. The ivies are generally need blind.

[Anonymous]

I wasn't talking about Ivies, I was responding to a post about kids with B- averages from Sidwell getting into "excellent small schools."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree, our DDs from Sidwell had GPAs of 3.7-3.8 and got into HYPS, almost no one has a 4.0. There is no weighting in the GPAs themselves. But clearly the admissions people at the top universities know exactly which courses are the most challenging track and even which teachers are super tough graders and take that into account, with input from the Sidwell college counselors.

This is still true nowadays at sidwell?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree, our DDs from Sidwell had GPAs of 3.7-3.8 and got into HYPS, almost no one has a 4.0. There is no weighting in the GPAs themselves. But clearly the admissions people at the top universities know exactly which courses are the most challenging track and even which teachers are super tough graders and take that into account, with input from the Sidwell college counselors.

This is still true nowadays at sidwell?

Yes, still true based on recent SCOIR data (as recent as the c/o 2024).

Although it’s been said many times on this thread, it bears repeating. Very few students graduate from Sidwell with a 4.0 (0-2/year).
Any student graduating from Sidwell with a cumulative >3.80 GPA is doing VERY well. If they test well and have strong letters of recommendations, every university is in play.

[Anonymous]

It's difficult to draw conclusions from prior admissions data because it doesn't account for URMs, athletes, big donors, and kids whose essays made them stand out.