Principal Placements

[Anonymous]

New to all this but is the issue that when you look at Level IV kids who don't go to center and Level III kids, they still don't fill a classroom? I would think there is a lot of level III, enough to fill a room. Why would there be an issue if the class is level IV and Level III? Is the issue that there are too many level III kids so some don't get in the class? I'm confused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New to all this but is the issue that when you look at Level IV kids who don't go to center and Level III kids, they still don't fill a classroom? I would think there is a lot of level III, enough to fill a room. Why would there be an issue if the class is level IV and Level III? Is the issue that there are too many level III kids so some don't get in the class? I'm confused.

Too many level three kids so only some get placed.

For example, my kids' base sent around eight to ten kids to the center (pre-bloated current sixth grade AAP group) and around a dozen plus kids to the center (post bloated current sixth grade group) In the current bloated sixth grade group, they sent around or just over 30 kids to the center (a little over the one class from that grade)

So if they implemented level four, we would have had this scenario for each of those grades:

Older kid's year group: I do not know how many kids got level III, but I would assume it was mayne a dozen. The total level 3 + level 4 would have been around or just over 20 kids. Most of the classes at our base have around 28-30 kids. So we would have ended up with either a much smaller AAP class of around 20 kids (3&4) with huge classes for the other four teachers, or the principal would have to pick eight or so kids to go in and fill out the LLIV class. Which eight? Whose mom is going to pitch a fit?who gets left out?

Younger kids group: My kid did not go to center, but is doing level 3 and advanced math. There are around eight-ten kids getting level three pullouts. With the number of kids at center, we would end up again with a small class of just over 20 that needs to be filled out. The next logical group to pull from is the advance math class, but there are over 30 of them, 20 ish of which are not part of the level 3 pull out group. So which eight of the 20 get moved into the LLIV class? They are all decent students. Right now, they feel like they arethe high performers. What happens when around half of them do not get placed in the level IV class? How will the parents who thought their kids were the smartest react when their kid is deemed in the bottom half and not chosen to go into the "smart" class anymore?

Our bloated current sixth grade class is the only one where the local level IV would work out. We sent an entire class to center, so it would be easy to deal with if they sent them back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New to all this but is the issue that when you look at Level IV kids who don't go to center and Level III kids, they still don't fill a classroom? I would think there is a lot of level III, enough to fill a room. Why would there be an issue if the class is level IV and Level III? Is the issue that there are too many level III kids so some don't get in the class? I'm confused.

Of course you are because all this Level III, Level IV stuff has gotten out of control. Here's a novel option: why don't we let teachers differentiate based upon what each kid is able to do and go from there. Would be a lot simpler and more honest.

[Anonymous]

Here's another novel option -- let's close TJ.

Closing TJ will squelch the demand for Level IV AAP altogether.

[Anonymous]

[youtube]

Anonymous wrote:Here's another novel option -- let's close TJ.

Closing TJ will squelch the demand for Level IV AAP altogether.

Yes.

Let's close the most effective, recognized and successful program in fcps, possibly the country, so the parents' egos don't get bruised.

Great idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New to all this but is the issue that when you look at Level IV kids who don't go to center and Level III kids, they still don't fill a classroom? I would think there is a lot of level III, enough to fill a room. Why would there be an issue if the class is level IV and Level III? Is the issue that there are too many level III kids so some don't get in the class? I'm confused.

Of course you are because all this Level III, Level IV stuff has gotten out of control. Here's a novel option: why don't we let teachers differentiate based upon what each kid is able to do and go from there. Would be a lot simpler and more honest.

+100
The different Levels are really just a bunch of B.S. that no one fully understands. Absolutely agree with you.

[Anonymous]

In the early 2000s, when the program was called GT, when the kids got to middle school, the center kids and the pull-out kids were combined into one or two GT teams. There was no seperate honors program for the kids who had been in the pull-out program in elementary school. GT and GT pull out were all combined and were in the same classes. I thought this worked really well then. I'm not really sure why they changed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In the early 2000s, when the program was called GT, when the kids got to middle school, the center kids and the pull-out kids were combined into one or two GT teams. There was no seperate honors program for the kids who had been in the pull-out program in elementary school. GT and GT pull out were all combined and were in the same classes. I thought this worked really well then. I'm not really sure why they changed it.

Probably because the parents of the kids who didn't get pull outs wanted their kids to be able to honors track. Just like you want your kid to AAP track.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New to all this but is the issue that when you look at Level IV kids who don't go to center and Level III kids, they still don't fill a classroom? I would think there is a lot of level III, enough to fill a room. Why would there be an issue if the class is level IV and Level III? Is the issue that there are too many level III kids so some don't get in the class? I'm confused.

Too many level three kids so only some get placed.

For example, my kids' base sent around eight to ten kids to the center (pre-bloated current sixth grade AAP group) and around a dozen plus kids to the center (post bloated current sixth grade group) In the current bloated sixth grade group, they sent around or just over 30 kids to the center (a little over the one class from that grade)

So if they implemented level four, we would have had this scenario for each of those grades:

Older kid's year group: I do not know how many kids got level III, but I would assume it was mayne a dozen. The total level 3 + level 4 would have been around or just over 20 kids. Most of the classes at our base have around 28-30 kids. So we would have ended up with either a much smaller AAP class of around 20 kids (3&4) with huge classes for the other four teachers, or the principal would have to pick eight or so kids to go in and fill out the LLIV class. Which eight? Whose mom is going to pitch a fit?who gets left out?

Younger kids group: My kid did not go to center, but is doing level 3 and advanced math. There are around eight-ten kids getting level three pullouts. With the number of kids at center, we would end up again with a small class of just over 20 that needs to be filled out. The next logical group to pull from is the advance math class, but there are over 30 of them, 20 ish of which are not part of the level 3 pull out group. So which eight of the 20 get moved into the LLIV class? They are all decent students. Right now, they feel like they arethe high performers. What happens when around half of them do not get placed in the level IV class? How will the parents who thought their kids were the smartest react when their kid is deemed in the bottom half and not chosen to go into the "smart" class anymore?

Our bloated current sixth grade class is the only one where the local level IV would work out. We sent an entire class to center, so it would be easy to deal with if they sent them back.

so it sounds like the issue is with non level III kids. If your child is level III they will be principal placed and it may or may not fill a classroom. No level III's are being left out of level IV classes. BUT if your child is not level III and is doing just advanced math or is level II or gen ed, then some get principal placed, some do not and the parents through a fit. Do I have that right?

[Anonymous]

*throw* not "through"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New to all this but is the issue that when you look at Level IV kids who don't go to center and Level III kids, they still don't fill a classroom? I would think there is a lot of level III, enough to fill a room. Why would there be an issue if the class is level IV and Level III? Is the issue that there are too many level III kids so some don't get in the class? I'm confused.

Too many level three kids so only some get placed.

For example, my kids' base sent around eight to ten kids to the center (pre-bloated current sixth grade AAP group) and around a dozen plus kids to the center (post bloated current sixth grade group) In the current bloated sixth grade group, they sent around or just over 30 kids to the center (a little over the one class from that grade)

So if they implemented level four, we would have had this scenario for each of those grades:

Older kid's year group: I do not know how many kids got level III, but I would assume it was mayne a dozen. The total level 3 + level 4 would have been around or just over 20 kids. Most of the classes at our base have around 28-30 kids. So we would have ended up with either a much smaller AAP class of around 20 kids (3&4) with huge classes for the other four teachers, or the principal would have to pick eight or so kids to go in and fill out the LLIV class. Which eight? Whose mom is going to pitch a fit?who gets left out?

Younger kids group: My kid did not go to center, but is doing level 3 and advanced math. There are around eight-ten kids getting level three pullouts. With the number of kids at center, we would end up again with a small class of just over 20 that needs to be filled out. The next logical group to pull from is the advance math class, but there are over 30 of them, 20 ish of which are not part of the level 3 pull out group. So which eight of the 20 get moved into the LLIV class? They are all decent students. Right now, they feel like they arethe high performers. What happens when around half of them do not get placed in the level IV class? How will the parents who thought their kids were the smartest react when their kid is deemed in the bottom half and not chosen to go into the "smart" class anymore?

Our bloated current sixth grade class is the only one where the local level IV would work out. We sent an entire class to center, so it would be easy to deal with if they sent them back.

so it sounds like the issue is with non level III kids. If your child is level III they will be principal placed and it may or may not fill a classroom. No level III's are being left out of level IV classes. BUT if your child is not level III and is doing just advanced math or is level II or gen ed, then some get principal placed, some do not and the parents through a fit. Do I have that right?

Nope. In my DD's LLIV class with 34 kids, no Level III kids were placed, even in subject. And the class eventually ballooned to 38 kids through moving and new admits. In DS's, they took Level IV, Level III for math only, and then about 8 kids who the principal just liked. I'm the PP who said that in a class between them, the parents got so nasty that the principal closed the class to all but the 16 LLIV qualified kids-- which made the class 1/2 the size of the other classes. Principal placement means the principal has sole discretion on how to fill empty seats-- or whether to fill them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New to all this but is the issue that when you look at Level IV kids who don't go to center and Level III kids, they still don't fill a classroom? I would think there is a lot of level III, enough to fill a room. Why would there be an issue if the class is level IV and Level III? Is the issue that there are too many level III kids so some don't get in the class? I'm confused.

Too many level three kids so only some get placed.

For example, my kids' base sent around eight to ten kids to the center (pre-bloated current sixth grade AAP group) and around a dozen plus kids to the center (post bloated current sixth grade group) In the current bloated sixth grade group, they sent around or just over 30 kids to the center (a little over the one class from that grade)

So if they implemented level four, we would have had this scenario for each of those grades:

Older kid's year group: I do not know how many kids got level III, but I would assume it was mayne a dozen. The total level 3 + level 4 would have been around or just over 20 kids. Most of the classes at our base have around 28-30 kids. So we would have ended up with either a much smaller AAP class of around 20 kids (3&4) with huge classes for the other four teachers, or the principal would have to pick eight or so kids to go in and fill out the LLIV class. Which eight? Whose mom is going to pitch a fit?who gets left out?

Younger kids group: My kid did not go to center, but is doing level 3 and advanced math. There are around eight-ten kids getting level three pullouts. With the number of kids at center, we would end up again with a small class of just over 20 that needs to be filled out. The next logical group to pull from is the advance math class, but there are over 30 of them, 20 ish of which are not part of the level 3 pull out group. So which eight of the 20 get moved into the LLIV class? They are all decent students. Right now, they feel like they arethe high performers. What happens when around half of them do not get placed in the level IV class? How will the parents who thought their kids were the smartest react when their kid is deemed in the bottom half and not chosen to go into the "smart" class anymore?

Our bloated current sixth grade class is the only one where the local level IV would work out. We sent an entire class to center, so it would be easy to deal with if they sent them back.

so it sounds like the issue is with non level III kids. If your child is level III they will be principal placed and it may or may not fill a classroom. No level III's are being left out of level IV classes. BUT if your child is not level III and is doing just advanced math or is level II or gen ed, then some get principal placed, some do not and the parents through a fit. Do I have that right?

Nope. In my DD's LLIV class with 34 kids, no Level III kids were placed, even in subject. And the class eventually ballooned to 38 kids through moving and new admits. In DS's, they took Level IV, Level III for math only, and then about 8 kids who the principal just liked. I'm the PP who said that in a class between them, the parents got so nasty that the principal closed the class to all but the 16 LLIV qualified kids-- which made the class 1/2 the size of the other classes. Principal placement means the principal has sole discretion on how to fill empty seats-- or whether to fill them.

That's nuts!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New to all this but is the issue that when you look at Level IV kids who don't go to center and Level III kids, they still don't fill a classroom? I would think there is a lot of level III, enough to fill a room. Why would there be an issue if the class is level IV and Level III? Is the issue that there are too many level III kids so some don't get in the class? I'm confused.

Too many level three kids so only some get placed.

For example, my kids' base sent around eight to ten kids to the center (pre-bloated current sixth grade AAP group) and around a dozen plus kids to the center (post bloated current sixth grade group) In the current bloated sixth grade group, they sent around or just over 30 kids to the center (a little over the one class from that grade)

So if they implemented level four, we would have had this scenario for each of those grades:

Older kid's year group: I do not know how many kids got level III, but I would assume it was mayne a dozen. The total level 3 + level 4 would have been around or just over 20 kids. Most of the classes at our base have around 28-30 kids. So we would have ended up with either a much smaller AAP class of around 20 kids (3&4) with huge classes for the other four teachers, or the principal would have to pick eight or so kids to go in and fill out the LLIV class. Which eight? Whose mom is going to pitch a fit?who gets left out?

Younger kids group: My kid did not go to center, but is doing level 3 and advanced math. There are around eight-ten kids getting level three pullouts. With the number of kids at center, we would end up again with a small class of just over 20 that needs to be filled out. The next logical group to pull from is the advance math class, but there are over 30 of them, 20 ish of which are not part of the level 3 pull out group. So which eight of the 20 get moved into the LLIV class? They are all decent students. Right now, they feel like they arethe high performers. What happens when around half of them do not get placed in the level IV class? How will the parents who thought their kids were the smartest react when their kid is deemed in the bottom half and not chosen to go into the "smart" class anymore?

Our bloated current sixth grade class is the only one where the local level IV would work out. We sent an entire class to center, so it would be easy to deal with if they sent them back.

so it sounds like the issue is with non level III kids. If your child is level III they will be principal placed and it may or may not fill a classroom. No level III's are being left out of level IV classes. BUT if your child is not level III and is doing just advanced math or is level II or gen ed, then some get principal placed, some do not and the parents through a fit. Do I have that right?

Nope. In my DD's LLIV class with 34 kids, no Level III kids were placed, even in subject. And the class eventually ballooned to 38 kids through moving and new admits. In DS's, they took Level IV, Level III for math only, and then about 8 kids who the principal just liked. I'm the PP who said that in a class between them, the parents got so nasty that the principal closed the class to all but the 16 LLIV qualified kids-- which made the class 1/2 the size of the other classes. Principal placement means the principal has sole discretion on how to fill empty seats-- or whether to fill them.

That's nuts!

There were already 34 kids in the class. Where do you expect the LIII kids to sit? That's the problem with local numbers-- class composition is very, very uneven, because most ESs only have 4-5 classes 9some have less), and they have to try to make one class AAP, whether there are 6 kids who qualify or 40.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New to all this but is the issue that when you look at Level IV kids who don't go to center and Level III kids, they still don't fill a classroom? I would think there is a lot of level III, enough to fill a room. Why would there be an issue if the class is level IV and Level III? Is the issue that there are too many level III kids so some don't get in the class? I'm confused.

Too many level three kids so only some get placed.

For example, my kids' base sent around eight to ten kids to the center (pre-bloated current sixth grade AAP group) and around a dozen plus kids to the center (post bloated current sixth grade group) In the current bloated sixth grade group, they sent around or just over 30 kids to the center (a little over the one class from that grade)

So if they implemented level four, we would have had this scenario for each of those grades:

Older kid's year group: I do not know how many kids got level III, but I would assume it was mayne a dozen. The total level 3 + level 4 would have been around or just over 20 kids. Most of the classes at our base have around 28-30 kids. So we would have ended up with either a much smaller AAP class of around 20 kids (3&4) with huge classes for the other four teachers, or the principal would have to pick eight or so kids to go in and fill out the LLIV class. Which eight? Whose mom is going to pitch a fit?who gets left out?

Younger kids group: My kid did not go to center, but is doing level 3 and advanced math. There are around eight-ten kids getting level three pullouts. With the number of kids at center, we would end up again with a small class of just over 20 that needs to be filled out. The next logical group to pull from is the advance math class, but there are over 30 of them, 20 ish of which are not part of the level 3 pull out group. So which eight of the 20 get moved into the LLIV class? They are all decent students. Right now, they feel like they arethe high performers. What happens when around half of them do not get placed in the level IV class? How will the parents who thought their kids were the smartest react when their kid is deemed in the bottom half and not chosen to go into the "smart" class anymore?

Our bloated current sixth grade class is the only one where the local level IV would work out. We sent an entire class to center, so it would be easy to deal with if they sent them back.

so it sounds like the issue is with non level III kids. If your child is level III they will be principal placed and it may or may not fill a classroom. No level III's are being left out of level IV classes. BUT if your child is not level III and is doing just advanced math or is level II or gen ed, then some get principal placed, some do not and the parents through a fit. Do I have that right?

Nope. In my DD's LLIV class with 34 kids, no Level III kids were placed, even in subject. And the class eventually ballooned to 38 kids through moving and new admits. In DS's, they took Level IV, Level III for math only, and then about 8 kids who the principal just liked. I'm the PP who said that in a class between them, the parents got so nasty that the principal closed the class to all but the 16 LLIV qualified kids-- which made the class 1/2 the size of the other classes. Principal placement means the principal has sole discretion on how to fill empty seats-- or whether to fill them.

That's nuts!

There were already 34 kids in the class. Where do you expect the LIII kids to sit? That's the problem with local numbers-- class composition is very, very uneven, because most ESs only have 4-5 classes 9some have less), and they have to try to make one class AAP, whether there are 6 kids who qualify or 40.

I misunderstood. I thought you were saying the class had 34 kids and none were level III, meaning some were level II and below and some were level IV. To me, that is nuts. Now, if you are saying the class had 34 level IV's, then sure, it shouldn't have any level IIIs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New to all this but is the issue that when you look at Level IV kids who don't go to center and Level III kids, they still don't fill a classroom? I would think there is a lot of level III, enough to fill a room. Why would there be an issue if the class is level IV and Level III? Is the issue that there are too many level III kids so some don't get in the class? I'm confused.

Too many level three kids so only some get placed.

For example, my kids' base sent around eight to ten kids to the center (pre-bloated current sixth grade AAP group) and around a dozen plus kids to the center (post bloated current sixth grade group) In the current bloated sixth grade group, they sent around or just over 30 kids to the center (a little over the one class from that grade)

So if they implemented level four, we would have had this scenario for each of those grades:

Older kid's year group: I do not know how many kids got level III, but I would assume it was mayne a dozen. The total level 3 + level 4 would have been around or just over 20 kids. Most of the classes at our base have around 28-30 kids. So we would have ended up with either a much smaller AAP class of around 20 kids (3&4) with huge classes for the other four teachers, or the principal would have to pick eight or so kids to go in and fill out the LLIV class. Which eight? Whose mom is going to pitch a fit?who gets left out?

Younger kids group: My kid did not go to center, but is doing level 3 and advanced math. There are around eight-ten kids getting level three pullouts. With the number of kids at center, we would end up again with a small class of just over 20 that needs to be filled out. The next logical group to pull from is the advance math class, but there are over 30 of them, 20 ish of which are not part of the level 3 pull out group. So which eight of the 20 get moved into the LLIV class? They are all decent students. Right now, they feel like they arethe high performers. What happens when around half of them do not get placed in the level IV class? How will the parents who thought their kids were the smartest react when their kid is deemed in the bottom half and not chosen to go into the "smart" class anymore?

Our bloated current sixth grade class is the only one where the local level IV would work out. We sent an entire class to center, so it would be easy to deal with if they sent them back.

so it sounds like the issue is with non level III kids. If your child is level III they will be principal placed and it may or may not fill a classroom. No level III's are being left out of level IV classes. BUT if your child is not level III and is doing just advanced math or is level II or gen ed, then some get principal placed, some do not and the parents through a fit. Do I have that right?

Nope. In my DD's LLIV class with 34 kids, no Level III kids were placed, even in subject. And the class eventually ballooned to 38 kids through moving and new admits. In DS's, they took Level IV, Level III for math only, and then about 8 kids who the principal just liked. I'm the PP who said that in a class between them, the parents got so nasty that the principal closed the class to all but the 16 LLIV qualified kids-- which made the class 1/2 the size of the other classes. Principal placement means the principal has sole discretion on how to fill empty seats-- or whether to fill them.

That's nuts!

There were already 34 kids in the class. Where do you expect the LIII kids to sit? That's the problem with local numbers-- class composition is very, very uneven, because most ESs only have 4-5 classes 9some have less), and they have to try to make one class AAP, whether there are 6 kids who qualify or 40.

I misunderstood. I thought you were saying the class had 34 kids and none were level III, meaning some were level II and below and some were level IV. To me, that is nuts. Now, if you are saying the class had 34 level IV's, then sure, it shouldn't have any level IIIs.

Nope. It was 34 level IV kids that year. And yes, the Level III should have ideally been able to have access for their subject. But the class was pandaemonium as it was....