Are all the kids "gifted" in this area?

[Anonymous]

OP here. So, if all the kids are gifted, why is everyone pushing so hard to get their children into the "gifted" programs and not just trying to buy/rent real estate in the districts with the highest percentage of kids testing gifted?

Well, not everyone can afford to buy or rent in those districts. We have no hope of affording anything in what are considered the "better" districts. My DH was laid off in October and I am a SAHM trying (unsuccessfully so far though I keep plugging away) to re-enter the work force. So we are stuck with our "lesser" pyramid.

The average FCPS elementary school serves a very wide population of students and their goal is to teach to the wide middle of students, with some additional services provided to bring those below grade level up to grade level. Getting into the GT Center is the only chance my kid has of getting enough differentiation to meet her needs. So far the differentiation that I have seen in first and second grades has been lip service at best. Maybe the GT Center won't be much better, but it will be something.

[Anonymous]

"Gifted" to me is kids that are truely precocious----doing abstract math at age 5 or reading 200 page books by 1st grade.

"Gifted" around the DC area means the majority of all children who have the benefit of 2 educated parents and formal (preschool) education from the age of 2 (often 5 days per week) plus a zillion other classes, trips to museums, the zoo, etc. When compared to kids from other parts of the country who generally don't start preschool until age 4 and who don't have half the exposure to cultural opportunities that our kids do, of course our kids are going to be ahead of the game by age 5.
The kids I've met who are in the 99% WIPPSI (basically all of the kids we know ironically) don't stand out as being particularly brilliant or advanced compared to any other kids I've met in my lifetime. They're not little geniuses. They're completely normal kids and I'd hazard to say many are of completely "normal" intelligence at baseline but have just benefited from all sorts of resources from birth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Gifted" to me is kids that are truely precocious----doing abstract math at age 5 or reading 200 page books by 1st grade.

"Gifted" around the DC area means the majority of all children who have the benefit of 2 educated parents and formal (preschool) education from the age of 2 (often 5 days per week) plus a zillion other classes, trips to museums, the zoo, etc. When compared to kids from other parts of the country who generally don't start preschool until age 4 and who don't have half the exposure to cultural opportunities that our kids do, of course our kids are going to be ahead of the game by age 5.
The kids I've met who are in the 99% WIPPSI (basically all of the kids we know ironically) don't stand out as being particularly brilliant or advanced compared to any other kids I've met in my lifetime. They're not little geniuses. They're completely normal kids and I'd hazard to say many are of completely "normal" intelligence at baseline but have just benefited from all sorts of resources from birth.

Say it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Gifted" to me is kids that are truely precocious----doing abstract math at age 5 or reading 200 page books by 1st grade.

"Gifted" around the DC area means the majority of all children who have the benefit of 2 educated parents and formal (preschool) education from the age of 2 (often 5 days per week) plus a zillion other classes, trips to museums, the zoo, etc. When compared to kids from other parts of the country who generally don't start preschool until age 4 and who don't have half the exposure to cultural opportunities that our kids do, of course our kids are going to be ahead of the game by age 5.
The kids I've met who are in the 99% WIPPSI (basically all of the kids we know ironically) don't stand out as being particularly brilliant or advanced compared to any other kids I've met in my lifetime. They're not little geniuses. They're completely normal kids and I'd hazard to say many are of completely "normal" intelligence at baseline but have just benefited from all sorts of resources from birth.

This sounds like a reasonable, possible explanation for what has always puzzled me a bit -- My DC tested 99.5% and seems bright -- but not "gifted." DC wasn't in a five-day preschool program and I can't say we've exposed DC to as many cultural opportunities as we could have, but I definitely think DC has received advantages from living in this area.

Your comments suggest that people fairly readily share their DC's WPPSI scores? Is this common?

[Anonymous]

http://www.nagc.org/index.aspx?id=574

National Association for Gifted Children (NAGC)
A gifted person is someone who shows, or has the potential for showing, an exceptional level of performance in one or more areas of expression.

Some of these abilities are very general and can affect a broad spectrum of the person's life, such as leadership skills or the ability to think creatively. Some are very specific talents and are only evident in particular circumstances, such as a special aptitude in mathematics, science, or music. The term giftedness provides a general reference to this spectrum of abilities without being specific or dependent on a single measure or index. It is generally recognized that approximately five percent of the student population, or three million children, in the United States are considered gifted.

A person's giftedness should not be confused with the means by which giftedness is observed or assessed. Parent, teacher, or student recommendations, a high mark on an examination, or a high IQ score are not giftedness; they may be a signal that giftedness exists. Some of these indices of giftedness are more sensitive than others to differences in the person's environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Gifted" to me is kids that are truely precocious----doing abstract math at age 5 or reading 200 page books by 1st grade.

"Gifted" around the DC area means the majority of all children who have the benefit of 2 educated parents and formal (preschool) education from the age of 2 (often 5 days per week) plus a zillion other classes, trips to museums, the zoo, etc. When compared to kids from other parts of the country who generally don't start preschool until age 4 and who don't have half the exposure to cultural opportunities that our kids do, of course our kids are going to be ahead of the game by age 5.
The kids I've met who are in the 99% WIPPSI (basically all of the kids we know ironically) don't stand out as being particularly brilliant or advanced compared to any other kids I've met in my lifetime. They're not little geniuses. They're completely normal kids and I'd hazard to say many are of completely "normal" intelligence at baseline but have just benefited from all sorts of resources from birth.

This sounds like a reasonable, possible explanation for what has always puzzled me a bit -- My DC tested 99.5% and seems bright -- but not "gifted." DC wasn't in a five-day preschool program and I can't say we've exposed DC to as many cultural opportunities as we could have, but I definitely think DC has received advantages from living in this area.

Your comments suggest that people fairly readily share their DC's WPPSI scores? Is this common?

Well, if you are applying to privates for DC, then not necessarily uncommon to share WPPSI scores. I think some folks do it, initially assuming their DC is gifted because of the high score. Then, when they start to hear that eight other kids on the block have a comparable score, they learn that a 99+ WPPSI is not as unique as they may have initially assumed.

We rarely go to museums, etc. But we read a lot as well as to the kids. We talk a lot and you cannot underestimate the effect on a toddler who is exposed to a broad vocabulary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Gifted" to me is kids that are truely precocious----doing abstract math at age 5 or reading 200 page books by 1st grade.

"Gifted" around the DC area means the majority of all children who have the benefit of 2 educated parents and formal (preschool) education from the age of 2 (often 5 days per week) plus a zillion other classes, trips to museums, the zoo, etc. When compared to kids from other parts of the country who generally don't start preschool until age 4 and who don't have half the exposure to cultural opportunities that our kids do, of course our kids are going to be ahead of the game by age 5.
The kids I've met who are in the 99% WIPPSI (basically all of the kids we know ironically) don't stand out as being particularly brilliant or advanced compared to any other kids I've met in my lifetime. They're not little geniuses. They're completely normal kids and I'd hazard to say many are of completely "normal" intelligence at baseline but have just benefited from all sorts of resources from birth.

If you are making a semantic point about the use of the word "gifted" I agree with you. But it does not mean that the 99th percentile children do not need educational opportunities that are tailored to them so that they can capitalize on their good early development. A class of 99th percentile kids, whether they are "gifted" or not, can, and should, go at a much faster pace than one filled with 85th percentile kids. And if in the end, the kids end up being more accomplished and capable than 99% of the population, it does not matter at all whether they started off as intrinsically gifted or are "normal" kids who are exposed to more intellectual stimulation during their early eductaion. Frankly, the problem in private schools is not that the 99th percentile kids are not smart enough, but that for various reasons schools admit a large number of kids who are not likely to perform at that level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Gifted" to me is kids that are truely precocious----doing abstract math at age 5 or reading 200 page books by 1st grade.

"Gifted" around the DC area means the majority of all children who have the benefit of 2 educated parents and formal (preschool) education from the age of 2 (often 5 days per week) plus a zillion other classes, trips to museums, the zoo, etc. When compared to kids from other parts of the country who generally don't start preschool until age 4 and who don't have half the exposure to cultural opportunities that our kids do, of course our kids are going to be ahead of the game by age 5.
The kids I've met who are in the 99% WIPPSI (basically all of the kids we know ironically) don't stand out as being particularly brilliant or advanced compared to any other kids I've met in my lifetime. They're not little geniuses. They're completely normal kids and I'd hazard to say many are of completely "normal" intelligence at baseline but have just benefited from all sorts of resources from birth.

If you are making a semantic point about the use of the word "gifted" I agree with you. But it does not mean that the 99th percentile children do not need educational opportunities that are tailored to them so that they can capitalize on their good early development. A class of 99th percentile kids, whether they are "gifted" or not, can, and should, go at a much faster pace than one filled with 85th percentile kids. And if in the end, the kids end up being more accomplished and capable than 99% of the population, it does not matter at all whether they started off as intrinsically gifted or are "normal" kids who are exposed to more intellectual stimulation during their early eductaion. Frankly, the problem in private schools is not that the 99th percentile kids are not smart enough, but that for various reasons schools admit a large number of kids who are not likely to perform at that level.

My DC tested in the 86th percentile (WISC IV) and is an A - B+ student. DC has always had very strong abstract reasoning ability, quite noticeably early on. He's in a classroom full of kids who I assume the majority tested in the 99th percentile during the admissions process. Most of his classmates, are not performing at a higher level. I keep hearing story after story that most of the class didn't do too well on this quiz or test so teacher's having them retake it.

We're public school shopping.

[Anonymous]

I would be worried about generalizing from a sample of one. There are several possilities. I would be surprised if the classroom is actually full of 99th percentile kids. But it is also possible that your kid actually is truly way beyond the 99th percentile level. In any individual case the test may not work well. But it would not imply that on average the local kids testing at the 99th percentile perfrom differently than any other kids in the country perfroming at the 99th percentile level.

I would be interested to hear why you think that public school would work better for your DC. Are you looking at specific programs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would be worried about generalizing from a sample of one. There are several possilities. I would be surprised if the classroom is actually full of 99th percentile kids. But it is also possible that your kid actually is truly way beyond the 99th percentile level. In any individual case the test may not work well. But it would not imply that on average the local kids testing at the 99th percentile perfrom differently than any other kids in the country perfroming at the 99th percentile level.

I would be interested to hear why you think that public school would work better for your DC. Are you looking at specific programs?

Not generalizing and am not interested in debating the merits of the school.

Mainly interested in Thomas Jefferson High. We want our DC in an academic environment where students collectively possess a stronger work ethic and affluence/wealth doesn't rule the entire culture of the school.

[Anonymous]

As a side point, my DC's school administers a logical reasoning test in house as part of the admissions process. My sense is that they give quite a bit of weight to that test.

The issue of a strong work ethic v. affluence/wealth is separate. I think that the private schools are geared towards educating children for the kinds of careers and lifestyles their parents have. If that is not the path you have chosen there might be a certain amount of dissonance. We will also be looking at TJ. But the individual attention children get is hard to beat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a side point, my DC's school administers a logical reasoning test in house as part of the admissions process. My sense is that they give quite a bit of weight to that test.

The issue of a strong work ethic v. affluence/wealth is separate. I think that the private schools are geared towards educating children for the kinds of careers and lifestyles their parents have. If that is not the path you have chosen there might be a certain amount of dissonance. We will also be looking at TJ. But the individual attention children get is hard to beat.

While my DC was applying for a program outside of the school that required transcript & test scroes, discovered that the score from the school's logical reasoning test was much higher than that of the WISC IV so you're probably correct.

"But the individual attention children get is hard to beat."

Yes so true.

[Anonymous]

A lot of the parents who are p[ushing schools for advanced instruction are doing so because the schools have a high proportion of children who are working at a remedial level.

[Anonymous]

A lot of the parents who are p[ushing schools for advanced instruction are doing so because the schools have a high proportion of children who are working at a remedial level. 1

Perhaps. But if you have a kid who is reading 5+ grades above level and doing math 2-3+ grades above level, then even the standard grade level curriculum is just not cutting it. The math curriculum in particular moves painfully slowly for my DD. Fortunately she is happy enough reading the drivel they give them, but she enjoys books of all sorts and she reads plenty of more challenging material at home on her own. But the fact is that in an X grade classroom, they teach X grade work. IME, if your kid works at something higher than X+1 grade level, then they have a hard time differentiating for them.

Maybe private schools do a better job with this, but the public schools don't seem to. Hoping the GT program is better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

A lot of the parents who are p[ushing schools for advanced instruction are doing so because the schools have a high proportion of children who are working at a remedial level. 1

Perhaps. But if you have a kid who is reading 5+ grades above level and doing math 2-3+ grades above level, then even the standard grade level curriculum is just not cutting it. The math curriculum in particular moves painfully slowly for my DD. Fortunately she is happy enough reading the drivel they give them, but she enjoys books of all sorts and she reads plenty of more challenging material at home on her own. But the fact is that in an X grade classroom, they teach X grade work. IME, if your kid works at something higher than X+1 grade level, then they have a hard time differentiating for them.

Maybe private schools do a better job with this, but the public schools don't seem to. Hoping the GT program is better.

Sounds like you're talking about my DD before I pulled her out of public and enrolled her in a "Big 3." DD started private in 4th grade and was pretty bored through 9th. She is pretty balanced academically though stronger in math. Scored a 800 on her SATs in math and in the mid 700s in critical reading and writing. She was pretty stunned that she didn't get a perfect score. She's thinking about taking it again, sees it as a game. Since she's been in upper school, has complained that several of her classes are just a bunch of busy work.

I hope your DD will be stimulated and that she enjoys the GT program, in hindsight, I often feel that we should have gone that route.