What exactly is "unstopping" and is it legal?

[Anonymous]

I have heard this '2 pieces of documentation' unwritten standard many times. It was fine for the one review I did in MoCo, which took about 20 minutes.

At my one review in PG County, it was explained to me that the expectation is more like 10 pieces of documentation for each subject area, and the meeting lasted well over an hour.

I don't have a problem with this, as the law states that 'thorough, regular instruction must be provided'. But ideally there would not be such a discrepancy between counties.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have heard this '2 pieces of documentation' unwritten standard many times. It was fine for the one review I did in MoCo, which took about 20 minutes.

At my one review in PG County, it was explained to me that the expectation is more like 10 pieces of documentation for each subject area, and the meeting lasted well over an hour.

I don't have a problem with this, as the law states that 'thorough, regular instruction must be provided'. But ideally there would not be such a discrepancy between counties.

I'm the PP, and I'm in MoCo. I do think that the state law gives the counties a lot of leeway in what they look for. I should have specified that I was in MoCo, not just stated MD.

I hope that when you went into your PG meeting you had advance warning. I know I only brought 2 pieces for my kid for each subject, so if we'd been rejected it would have mean scrambling to set another appointment, which would have been annoying. To be clear, I had plenty of other documentation, but it was at home or online (e.g. much of my kid's work is in google docs).

[Anonymous]

The theory is that you follow the child's interests and use that as a way to introduce broader concepts. So let's say your kid is really into bugs. You might get books from the library to teach them about different types of bugs, their habitats, their body structures, their life cycles, etc. (science), and use those books on bugs as reading practice as well. Then come up with an art project about bugs to cover that. Then, depending on the age of the child, you might watch for fireflies and practice counting the number you see. So the child gets all of the fundamentals in the context of what they are interested in, and it encourages a natural curiosity and desire to learn. Obviously there are a lot of ways this can go wrong, though. For instance, not all parents will put in the effort to provide a well-rounded education about bugs to reinforce all of these skills, they'll just read the kid books on bugs and maybe watch a nature show or go to the nature center and be done with it. Or you could have a child who's not really suited to unschooling because they don't have a natural internal sense of motivation and will lose interest as soon as it becomes challenging (e.g., a child who struggles with math will decide he's bored with bugs when it comes to counting them because it's hard, and the unschooling parent will just follow his lead instead of making sure the child learns basic math concepts). Then you get a kids who's ready, age-wise, to go to college, but has huge gaps in his knowledge base and can't function in that environment without serious remediation. Done properly, it's incredibly demanding and time-consuming for parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard this '2 pieces of documentation' unwritten standard many times. It was fine for the one review I did in MoCo, which took about 20 minutes.

At my one review in PG County, it was explained to me that the expectation is more like 10 pieces of documentation for each subject area, and the meeting lasted well over an hour.

I don't have a problem with this, as the law states that 'thorough, regular instruction must be provided'. But ideally there would not be such a discrepancy between counties.

I'm the PP, and I'm in MoCo. I do think that the state law gives the counties a lot of leeway in what they look for. I should have specified that I was in MoCo, not just stated MD.

I hope that when you went into your PG meeting you had advance warning. I know I only brought 2 pieces for my kid for each subject, so if we'd been rejected it would have mean scrambling to set another appointment, which would have been annoying. To be clear, I had plenty of other documentation, but it was at home or online (e.g. much of my kid's work is in google docs).

Unfortunately I did not know this going into the PG meeting, but we were not rejected. It probably helped that my child was a kindergartener. She was very clear what the expectation would be moving forward.

I've heard that Baltimore City is very tough on homeschoolers, which is most unfortunate. They should be doing their best to support homeschoolers seeing as they have trouble supporting the children in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The theory is that you follow the child's interests and use that as a way to introduce broader concepts. So let's say your kid is really into bugs. You might get books from the library to teach them about different types of bugs, their habitats, their body structures, their life cycles, etc. (science), and use those books on bugs as reading practice as well. Then come up with an art project about bugs to cover that. Then, depending on the age of the child, you might watch for fireflies and practice counting the number you see. So the child gets all of the fundamentals in the context of what they are interested in, and it encourages a natural curiosity and desire to learn. Obviously there are a lot of ways this can go wrong, though. For instance, not all parents will put in the effort to provide a well-rounded education about bugs to reinforce all of these skills, they'll just read the kid books on bugs and maybe watch a nature show or go to the nature center and be done with it. Or you could have a child who's not really suited to unschooling because they don't have a natural internal sense of motivation and will lose interest as soon as it becomes challenging (e.g., a child who struggles with math will decide he's bored with bugs when it comes to counting them because it's hard, and the unschooling parent will just follow his lead instead of making sure the child learns basic math concepts). Then you get a kids who's ready, age-wise, to go to college, but has huge gaps in his knowledge base and can't function in that environment without serious remediation. Done properly, it's incredibly demanding and time-consuming for parents.

+1
Providing social opportunities for the children also takes a lot of time, effort, and patience. I'm glad we are able to homeschool and that we do it. But I often have thoughts of giving my very energetic children to someone else. For 30 hours a week. For free!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The theory is that you follow the child's interests and use that as a way to introduce broader concepts. So let's say your kid is really into bugs. You might get books from the library to teach them about different types of bugs, their habitats, their body structures, their life cycles, etc. (science), and use those books on bugs as reading practice as well. Then come up with an art project about bugs to cover that. Then, depending on the age of the child, you might watch for fireflies and practice counting the number you see. So the child gets all of the fundamentals in the context of what they are interested in, and it encourages a natural curiosity and desire to learn. Obviously there are a lot of ways this can go wrong, though. For instance, not all parents will put in the effort to provide a well-rounded education about bugs to reinforce all of these skills, they'll just read the kid books on bugs and maybe watch a nature show or go to the nature center and be done with it. Or you could have a child who's not really suited to unschooling because they don't have a natural internal sense of motivation and will lose interest as soon as it becomes challenging (e.g., a child who struggles with math will decide he's bored with bugs when it comes to counting them because it's hard, and the unschooling parent will just follow his lead instead of making sure the child learns basic math concepts). Then you get a kids who's ready, age-wise, to go to college, but has huge gaps in his knowledge base and can't function in that environment without serious remediation. Done properly, it's incredibly demanding and time-consuming for parents.

I'm the PP who homeschools but doesn't unschool, and I wouldn't consider what you describe unschooling, I'd call it "interest based" or "emergent" or "unit studies but if the adult is the one selecting the resources and planning the activities, even if they're selecting resources and planning activities that they know will appeal to the child, then I wouldn't consider it unschooling.

I think, in theory, that a child who has always been able to direct their own learning will naturally choose the right level of challenge for themselves, which might be easier or harder than their age mates, but they wouldn't necessarily decide that math is "hard", they'd just choose math activities that match their ability, so they might spend a long time counting smaller sets or something. Again, I'm not speaking from experience.

[Anonymous]

Jennifer McGrail writes about her unschooling family: http://www.jennifermcgrail.com

Her kids range from elementary to high school age.

She also writes about faith, gentle parenting, and other topics, and though I'm not religious, or an unschooler, I like her thoughtfulness on topics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friend unschools. They live in FLA ... So technically she home schools because she needs to present "work" to somebody to prove she is teaching.

My son is dyslexic and MOCo schools could not teach him so I looked into homeschooling, but I had to work, so I sent him to school, then taught him everything at night. When I was researching homeschooling she explained her unschooling methods to me, which are not pure unschooling.

Math: they go to the store and weigh fruit and figure out how much grapes cost, then compare the cost to peaches . She has a general idea if he can add, subtract, multiply, etc

Science: they own chickens and raise snakes, they go to the science center. They go bird watching. They fish,
I
English: they read stuff and write about it, or do oral reports.

I am sure I am not doing it justice but basically, they don't have text books or a curriculum. They find learning in their real world and they discuss it.


They are part of an Unschooling group of about 10 families... 15 ish kids and they do activities together. They spend a lot of time in the library, AT&T he science center, museums, etc.

Many people in her family have a combination of up schooling/homeschooling/private/public school and most have masters degrees. She is an accountant! her sister is a doctor! her other sister runs a small business that teaches people to rock climb/kayak/paddle board and her brother is an engineer.

Not OP but thanks for your reply. That actually doesn't seem as intense or crunchy as the name makes it sound, especially for younger kids. However, how does it work when the kids get to MS/HS? If they want to go to college, it seems like they would really have to sit down and consciously study more complex subjects, like algebra - while the mom can tell now that her child can add or subtract, it's harder to have an idea of his proficiency at math or physics! Unless they're supplementing unschooling with homeschooling or other arrangements, in which case it kinds of goes against the philosophy?

So my friends mom was crunchy... not the cool, I wear REI and Birkenstock kind ... like a really hippy. Her mom jokes that she was lucky, her kids were sick of her at points so she just sent them to public that year. That is why they have a combination of schoolings. They all eventually went to DC/MD private schools for HS.

Now my friends jokes, dang this kid likes me too much may never go to school. But he has not hit puberty so... that may change. But he does camps in the summer and really has not problem socializing or following directions. I think he may go to traditional school in MS/HS... but there really is not a set plan, just see how it goes. Part of her family runs a working farm and she say, well maybe he can help run the farm, they provide farm to table food for DC restaurants. I think there is a really good atmosphere from the it will all work out standpoint, but I am sure she freaks out every now and again that she is "doing it wrong" but we all do.

I asked her DR sister if she ever thought of unschooling/homeschooling and she joked, we do... for German only... her husband speaks German and all their nannies only speak German.

I have another friend that homeschools and her son would complain that she did not actually teach math/physics... he watched videos online, read the book and basically taught himself. I laughed (I have a degree in Math) because most my teachers in HS/college did not really teach math or physics either, you basically read the chapter and answered the questions. He was able to get into the Naval Academy so his science lessons on line must have been pretty good.

[Anonymous]

Unschooling sounds like even more work than regular homeschooling!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My friend unschools. They live in FLA ... So technically she home schools because she needs to present "work" to somebody to prove she is teaching.

My son is dyslexic and MOCo schools could not teach him so I looked into homeschooling, but I had to work, so I sent him to school, then taught him everything at night. When I was researching homeschooling she explained her unschooling methods to me, which are not pure unschooling.

Math: they go to the store and weigh fruit and figure out how much grapes cost, then compare the cost to peaches . She has a general idea if he can add, subtract, multiply, etc

Science: they own chickens and raise snakes, they go to the science center. They go bird watching. They fish,
I
English: they read stuff and write about it, or do oral reports.

I am sure I am not doing it justice but basically, they don't have text books or a curriculum. They find learning in their real world and they discuss it.


They are part of an Unschooling group of about 10 families... 15 ish kids and they do activities together. They spend a lot of time in the library, AT&T he science center, museums, etc.

Many people in her family have a combination of up schooling/homeschooling/private/public school and most have masters degrees. She is an accountant! her sister is a doctor! her other sister runs a small business that teaches people to rock climb/kayak/paddle board and her brother is an engineer.

Not OP but thanks for your reply. That actually doesn't seem as intense or crunchy as the name makes it sound, especially for younger kids. However, how does it work when the kids get to MS/HS? If they want to go to college, it seems like they would really have to sit down and consciously study more complex subjects, like algebra - while the mom can tell now that her child can add or subtract, it's harder to have an idea of his proficiency at math or physics! Unless they're supplementing unschooling with homeschooling or other arrangements, in which case it kinds of goes against the philosophy?

So my friends mom was crunchy... not the cool, I wear REI and Birkenstock kind ... like a really hippy. Her mom jokes that she was lucky, her kids were sick of her at points so she just sent them to public that year. That is why they have a combination of schoolings. They all eventually went to DC/MD private schools for HS.

Now my friends jokes, dang this kid likes me too much may never go to school. But he has not hit puberty so... that may change. But he does camps in the summer and really has not problem socializing or following directions. I think he may go to traditional school in MS/HS... but there really is not a set plan, just see how it goes. Part of her family runs a working farm and she say, well maybe he can help run the farm, they provide farm to table food for DC restaurants. I think there is a really good atmosphere from the it will all work out standpoint, but I am sure she freaks out every now and again that she is "doing it wrong" but we all do.

I asked her DR sister if she ever thought of unschooling/homeschooling and she joked, we do... for German only... her husband speaks German and all their nannies only speak German.

I have another friend that homeschools and her son would complain that she did not actually teach math/physics... he watched videos online, read the book and basically taught himself. I laughed (I have a degree in Math) because most my teachers in HS/college did not really teach math or physics either, you basically read the chapter and answered the questions. He was able to get into the Naval Academy so his science lessons on line must have been pretty good.

I read this several times and could not make any sense of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unschooling sounds like even more work than regular homeschooling!

Done well, I absolutely think it is. More traditional homeschooling you can buy packaged curriculum that step you through each year. Not so with unschooling.

[Anonymous]

OP here- thanks for all the thoughtful replies. Very interesting!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:basically it's the same as home schooling. Un-schooling may the hippie granola method while home schooling may be the ultra right wing religious method (and no, I don't have a citation).

It's a type of homeschooling.

There are plenty of atheist or nondevout families who strictly follow a secular curriculum. They would be referred to as homeschoolers.

Glad you can read, so re-state what I said. And also that you detect sarcasm. Oh, oops, wait...

[Anonymous]

My sister in Oregon (more hipster/geeky than hippie, and definitely not religious) has unschooled her kids for more than a decade. In her case, it literally means not schooling them. They are very involved in a homeschooling co-op, but when they are not there, they are basically left to their own devices. Which is why they are expert wood carvers and archers and musicians but don't really have their multiplication facts down solidly. These are young teens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unschooling sounds like even more work than regular homeschooling!

Done well, I absolutely think it is. More traditional homeschooling you can buy packaged curriculum that step you through each year. Not so with unschooling.

+1