Is the Alumni Network really an important factor...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went to a Big 10 school and have been hired by alumni in 2 out of 3 jobs after college. My husband and my sister have had the same experience. It's not going to override basic qualifications for getting hired, but it's absolutely a kinship that gets you in the door. Also, because it's a huge school, there are alumni EVERYWHERE.

sounds like Michigan.

[Anonymous]

What about things like honor societies, such as Phi Beta Kappa?

[Anonymous]

Yes, I think connections you get from college are helpful, and I would advise my children to spend serious effort in getting to know their classmates and professors. However, I don't think it matters which college you get them from.

I went to an Ivy. DH went to a state school. We went to the same high school, so I think we are an interesting case study. We both relied on our college networks to get our first jobs, but our current-day network is a mix of high school friends, college friends, work friends, and most importantly, 2nd-order connections from each of those groups.

If you are a good networker, it won't particularly matter what kind of base you start off with - you'll be good at hopping friend-of-friends. If you don't have networking skills, then the college you go to is crucial, because you'll rely more on 1st-order connections and official channels. Of course, networking is a skill that can be learned just like anything else.

I don't think that going to an Ivy gave me a significant leg up over DH. It's cool to think, "Oh! I went to school with so and so," but in most cases they were not really good friends. And my education was $$$$ while he was paid a stipend to go. I'm conflicted on which path I would advise my children to take, because I saw from DH that there is a real advantage in being a big fish in a small pond.

[Anonymous]

I know that there has been at least one study which indicates that high-performing students, from middle and upper-class backgrounds, who attend state schools, largely do as well as those who attend Ivies.

The poor, working-class and under-represented minorities seem to benefit the most from Ivies (or elite privates, in general).

I think there was a catch though: the state schools included the study are relatively selective, "nationally ranked," state schools. My assumption is that if you include little-known, regional, commuter schools, the assumption no longer holds.

In the end, a lot of it comes down to socioeconomic backgrounds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know that there has been at least one study which indicates that high-performing students, from middle and upper-class backgrounds, who attend state schools, largely do as well as those who attend Ivies.

The poor, working-class and under-represented minorities seem to benefit the most from Ivies (or elite privates, in general).

I think there was a catch though: the state schools included the study are relatively selective, "nationally ranked," state schools. My assumption is that if you include little-known, regional, commuter schools, the assumption no longer holds.

In the end, a lot of it comes down to socioeconomic backgrounds.

+1

[Anonymous]

Do you agree that the frat connection can be very fruitful?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you agree that the frat connection can be very fruitful?

Only if it's a good frat. Make sure you don't get the reputation of being a stoner, etc.

[Anonymous]

I graduated from Notre Dame - yes, I think it matters. You meet someone from Notre Dame - they have a very similar experience. They probably stayed in the same dorm all four years at ND. They never were in a fraternity or sorority. They went to every football game. They probably are Catholic. There's a better than 50/50 chance they went to a Catholic high school....etc....etc... etc...

It matters not just in the alumni network in absolute numbers either (frankly, ND's alumni number is around 120,000 while places like Michigan and Texas are 500,000).

A lot of people never went to ND but love it (the campus, the Catholic nature, etc.) The "subway alumni" - I have gotten openings in life from many of them too. A similar number hate the place but still have immense respective for it. Whenever I say "I went to Notre Dame" they have a reaction - it may be good, it may be bad, but they have an opinion about it and they are going to tell you. For many in my lifetime, that has been a positive opinion - even if not an alumnus(a).

Let's put it another way on the respect factor: There are a lot of students at the University of Some State (name just about any state - Oklahoma, Iowa, Nebraska, Florida, etc.) that could not get into Notre Dame. There is no one at Notre Dame that could not have gotten into University of Some State.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I graduated from Notre Dame - yes, I think it matters. You meet someone from Notre Dame - they have a very similar experience. They probably stayed in the same dorm all four years at ND. They never were in a fraternity or sorority. They went to every football game. They probably are Catholic. There's a better than 50/50 chance they went to a Catholic high school....etc....etc... etc...

It matters not just in the alumni network in absolute numbers either (frankly, ND's alumni number is around 120,000 while places like Michigan and Texas are 500,000).

A lot of people never went to ND but love it (the campus, the Catholic nature, etc.) The "subway alumni" - I have gotten openings in life from many of them too. A similar number hate the place but still have immense respective for it. Whenever I say "I went to Notre Dame" they have a reaction - it may be good, it may be bad, but they have an opinion about it and they are going to tell you. For many in my lifetime, that has been a positive opinion - even if not an alumnus(a).

Let's put it another way on the respect factor: There are a lot of students at the University of Some State (name just about any state - Oklahoma, Iowa, Nebraska, Florida, etc.) that could not get into Notre Dame. There is no one at Notre Dame that could not have gotten into University of Some State.

Boast much?

[Anonymous]

And then people wonder why Notre Dame incurs such scorn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I graduated from Notre Dame - yes, I think it matters. You meet someone from Notre Dame - they have a very similar experience. They probably stayed in the same dorm all four years at ND. They never were in a fraternity or sorority. They went to every football game. They probably are Catholic. There's a better than 50/50 chance they went to a Catholic high school....etc....etc... etc...

It matters not just in the alumni network in absolute numbers either (frankly, ND's alumni number is around 120,000 while places like Michigan and Texas are 500,000).

A lot of people never went to ND but love it (the campus, the Catholic nature, etc.) The "subway alumni" - I have gotten openings in life from many of them too. A similar number hate the place but still have immense respective for it. Whenever I say "I went to Notre Dame" they have a reaction - it may be good, it may be bad, but they have an opinion about it and they are going to tell you. For many in my lifetime, that has been a positive opinion - even if not an alumnus(a).

Let's put it another way on the respect factor: There are a lot of students at the University of Some State (name just about any state - Oklahoma, Iowa, Nebraska, Florida, etc.) that could not get into Notre Dame. There is no one at Notre Dame that could not have gotten into University of Some State.

There are a lot of students at Notre Dame that could not get into the any of the Ivies. There is no one at any of the Ivies that could not have gotten into Notre Dame.

[Anonymous]

The smaller the school, the more potent the alumni network. Agree or disagree?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The smaller the school, the more potent the alumni network. Agree or disagree?

Disagree. Michigan has a huge network that works anywhere in the country. Could you say the same for Amherst?

[Anonymous]

I know someone who went to Princeton, graduated 15 years ago. He was in foreign service and was a visa issuing official in various countries for over the last ten years. Recently, he decided he wants to come back to the US and reached out to his fellow alumni and fraternity brothers from Princeton. Got lots of leads, interviews and, as a result, very lucrative job offers. Btw, his degree is in political science, and he was getting interviews for hedge fund and other Finance-related positions - something he has never had any experience in, ever. He did not land a job in NYC as he hoped to, but got himself a very sweet expat deal in Hong Kong and is very happy. So yes, the alumni network from a good uni does matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I graduated from Notre Dame - yes, I think it matters. You meet someone from Notre Dame - they have a very similar experience. They probably stayed in the same dorm all four years at ND. They never were in a fraternity or sorority. They went to every football game. They probably are Catholic. There's a better than 50/50 chance they went to a Catholic high school....etc....etc... etc...

It matters not just in the alumni network in absolute numbers either (frankly, ND's alumni number is around 120,000 while places like Michigan and Texas are 500,000).

A lot of people never went to ND but love it (the campus, the Catholic nature, etc.) The "subway alumni" - I have gotten openings in life from many of them too. A similar number hate the place but still have immense respective for it. Whenever I say "I went to Notre Dame" they have a reaction - it may be good, it may be bad, but they have an opinion about it and they are going to tell you. For many in my lifetime, that has been a positive opinion - even if not an alumnus(a).

Let's put it another way on the respect factor: There are a lot of students at the University of Some State (name just about any state - Oklahoma, Iowa, Nebraska, Florida, etc.) that could not get into Notre Dame. There is no one at Notre Dame that could not have gotten into University of Some State.

There are a lot of students at Notre Dame that could not get into the any of the Ivies. There is no one at any of the Ivies that could not have gotten into Notre Dame.

I was with the Notre Dame poster until his/her last paragraph. There's no denying that Notre Dame has an extraordinary alumni network. He/she should have quit while ahead without going into how selective the university is. It's really not relevant to the conversation.

Having said that, it's also not true that there is no one in the Ivies who could not have gotten into Notre Dame. My nephew went to Brown after being rejected by Notre Dame. Cornell is probably a less selective university overall than Notre Dame. Notre Dame long ago reached the level of selectivity where admission is a crap shoot.