s/o Are you over the TSP/401k?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would you do with the extra $600 per month?

I don't understand people that want so many things. What do you do with them? Why do you want them so badly?

Maybe it's not for things but experiences?

I get what OP is saying. I am not a crazy saver, but I save enough. Sometimes, when I see the amount people on this board have saved with an income similar to mine, I am envious. I think - why didn't you forgo X, Y and Z and save that money. And what I am about to say is somewhat cheesy, but my younger sister died very suddenly in her 20s. And I think a lot about all the things she never got to do. So I will never assume that if I just save everything possible now, I can retire earlier and fulfill all my dreams then. I am also not assuming I need to do everything I want to do now and that I don't need to save for the future. I try to balance it. But I also feel like even balancing it is overdoing it a little. I probably don't need to save as much as I do, but I think there is a pressure, if you make X, you should be saving Y, even if Y is more than you need.

Well, if you read some of the other threads about how much people will think they'll need in retirement it's a little over the top. Maybe the people posting those threads are currently earning crazy money but for me I'm sure I'd be just fine on a lot less.

I agree!!! Needing 10 million to retire on is a want, not a need. Most of us would be happy with 100k a year or even 75k and I think that's still a huge number. When your house is paid off and you don't have kids, there's not much expenditure.

I take all the investment stuff I read here - and pretty much everything else here - with a grain of salt. I think this site attracts the super high earners who want to be able to say, I'm 35 with 3 million saved already, which causes the "regular" professionals with 150k saved at age 35 to keep shut and second guess themselves. People here also fancy themselves investment gurus yet the advice is often suspect or incomplete. There are other forums where you get a more real cross section of retirement savings and better investment advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would you do with the extra $600 per month?

I don't understand people that want so many things. What do you do with them? Why do you want them so badly?

Maybe it's not for things but experiences?

I get what OP is saying. I am not a crazy saver, but I save enough. Sometimes, when I see the amount people on this board have saved with an income similar to mine, I am envious. I think - why didn't you forgo X, Y and Z and save that money. And what I am about to say is somewhat cheesy, but my younger sister died very suddenly in her 20s. And I think a lot about all the things she never got to do. So I will never assume that if I just save everything possible now, I can retire earlier and fulfill all my dreams then. I am also not assuming I need to do everything I want to do now and that I don't need to save for the future. I try to balance it. But I also feel like even balancing it is overdoing it a little. I probably don't need to save as much as I do, but I think there is a pressure, if you make X, you should be saving Y, even if Y is more than you need.

Well, if you read some of the other threads about how much people will think they'll need in retirement it's a little over the top. Maybe the people posting those threads are currently earning crazy money but for me I'm sure I'd be just fine on a lot less.

I agree!!! Needing 10 million to retire on is a want, not a need. Most of us would be happy with 100k a year or even 75k and I think that's still a huge number. When your house is paid off and you don't have kids, there's not much expenditure.

Any recs other than Bogleheads which I've heard is very good?

I take all the investment stuff I read here - and pretty much everything else here - with a grain of salt. I think this site attracts the super high earners who want to be able to say, I'm 35 with 3 million saved already, which causes the "regular" professionals with 150k saved at age 35 to keep shut and second guess themselves. People here also fancy themselves investment gurus yet the advice is often suspect or incomplete. There are other forums where you get a more real cross section of retirement savings and better investment advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As a frugal person, I hate his blog. I wouldn't want to live like him unless I was extremely poor.

Oh and I'm sure he makes good money now that he has the blog.

Another frugal person here (have our mortgage paid off at 30, live on way less than we earn, don't outsource much, etc), and I am so glad to see you say this. We have been trying to figure out what our next financial moves are, and I keep feeling like I should be inspired by MMM. Instead I always feel depressed. Even with no mortgage and no kids, the idea of living on 24k a year sounds awful to me. I live (what I thought was) pretty simply but the idea of riding a bike most places, changing jobs or homes specifically around a commute (I live in a sprawling area), line drying clothes just sounds like an unenjoyable life to me.

I keep beating myself up because I feel like I don't "get it," but I think I do get it and it is just a bridge too far for me. I like my work though.

Me too, but I think the estimate of 75% of your current income is too high. The best thing you can do is find a retired couple that is living the life you'd like and ask them what they spend every year. For me, that was my parents. They are active, go out to eat, golf 4x a week, live near the beach in NC....they estimated about $45-50k a year. Assuming no Social Security income, that's 20 years of retirement if you have $1M in the bank. Not a long time. You might be retired for 30 or 40 years.

Then you also have to save for college educations, which can be $65k per year for private schools.

I'm operating on the assumption $2M is needed to retire and $.5M needed for college (two kids). Once I hit that mark, I'll transfer the money into a conservative fund and start paying off the mortgage more heavily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As a frugal person, I hate his blog. I wouldn't want to live like him unless I was extremely poor.

Oh and I'm sure he makes good money now that he has the blog.

Another frugal person here (have our mortgage paid off at 30, live on way less than we earn, don't outsource much, etc), and I am so glad to see you say this. We have been trying to figure out what our next financial moves are, and I keep feeling like I should be inspired by MMM. Instead I always feel depressed. Even with no mortgage and no kids, the idea of living on 24k a year sounds awful to me. I live (what I thought was) pretty simply but the idea of riding a bike most places, changing jobs or homes specifically around a commute (I live in a sprawling area), line drying clothes just sounds like an unenjoyable life to me.

I keep beating myself up because I feel like I don't "get it," but I think I do get it and it is just a bridge too far for me. I like my work though.

Me too, but I think the estimate of 75% of your current income is too high. The best thing you can do is find a retired couple that is living the life you'd like and ask them what they spend every year. For me, that was my parents. They are active, go out to eat, golf 4x a week, live near the beach in NC....they estimated about $45-50k a year. Assuming no Social Security income, that's 20 years of retirement if you have $1M in the bank. Not a long time. You might be retired for 30 or 40 years.

Then you also have to save for college educations, which can be $65k per year for private schools.

I'm operating on the assumption $2M is needed to retire and $.5M needed for college (two kids). Once I hit that mark, I'll transfer the money into a conservative fund and start paying off the mortgage more heavily.

$1million + social security is plenty to get to 40-50k a year forever! The problem is inflation and that you don't really know today what you'll need in 30 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As a frugal person, I hate his blog. I wouldn't want to live like him unless I was extremely poor.

Oh and I'm sure he makes good money now that he has the blog.

Another frugal person here (have our mortgage paid off at 30, live on way less than we earn, don't outsource much, etc), and I am so glad to see you say this. We have been trying to figure out what our next financial moves are, and I keep feeling like I should be inspired by MMM. Instead I always feel depressed. Even with no mortgage and no kids, the idea of living on 24k a year sounds awful to me. I live (what I thought was) pretty simply but the idea of riding a bike most places, changing jobs or homes specifically around a commute (I live in a sprawling area), line drying clothes just sounds like an unenjoyable life to me.

I keep beating myself up because I feel like I don't "get it," but I think I do get it and it is just a bridge too far for me. I like my work though.

Me too, but I think the estimate of 75% of your current income is too high. The best thing you can do is find a retired couple that is living the life you'd like and ask them what they spend every year. For me, that was my parents. They are active, go out to eat, golf 4x a week, live near the beach in NC....they estimated about $45-50k a year. Assuming no Social Security income, that's 20 years of retirement if you have $1M in the bank. Not a long time. You might be retired for 30 or 40 years.

Then you also have to save for college educations, which can be $65k per year for private schools.

I'm operating on the assumption $2M is needed to retire and $.5M needed for college (two kids). Once I hit that mark, I'll transfer the money into a conservative fund and start paying off the mortgage more heavily.

$1million + social security is plenty to get to 40-50k a year forever! The problem is inflation and that you don't really know today what you'll need in 30 years.

Um, no, about 30 years. Not forever. That's assuming you'll collect about $20k a year starting at age 62 for 30 years. Also assuming social security is still around by the time you are 62. If your spouse gets $20k too and lives for the same amount of time, then yeah, you might be okay living off social security alone.

I'm doing the calculations in today's dollars because the future value depresses me. I also don't want to wait until I'm 62 to retire.

[Anonymous]

^If you get a 3% return off that $1 million you're pulling in $30K a year without even touching the principal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would you do with the extra $600 per month?

I don't understand people that want so many things. What do you do with them? Why do you want them so badly?

The same can be said for having a ton of money when you retire. What will you do with it all? You'll be all old and achy and cranky and maybe just want to sit in front of the tv and repeat the same boring stories over and over. I bet I'd enjoy the money more now. Travel, sports, nice clothes, comfy furniture, dinners out, fitness classes, boating, gardening, the theater...it all costs money and I'm in good health to enjoy it. Yeah, I'd have no trouble finding things to spend money on.

Don't you spend most of your waking hours working and raising your kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As a frugal person, I hate his blog. I wouldn't want to live like him unless I was extremely poor.

Oh and I'm sure he makes good money now that he has the blog.

Another frugal person here (have our mortgage paid off at 30, live on way less than we earn, don't outsource much, etc), and I am so glad to see you say this. We have been trying to figure out what our next financial moves are, and I keep feeling like I should be inspired by MMM. Instead I always feel depressed. Even with no mortgage and no kids, the idea of living on 24k a year sounds awful to me. I live (what I thought was) pretty simply but the idea of riding a bike most places, changing jobs or homes specifically around a commute (I live in a sprawling area), line drying clothes just sounds like an unenjoyable life to me.

I keep beating myself up because I feel like I don't "get it," but I think I do get it and it is just a bridge too far for me. I like my work though.

Me too, but I think the estimate of 75% of your current income is too high. The best thing you can do is find a retired couple that is living the life you'd like and ask them what they spend every year. For me, that was my parents. They are active, go out to eat, golf 4x a week, live near the beach in NC....they estimated about $45-50k a year. Assuming no Social Security income, that's 20 years of retirement if you have $1M in the bank. Not a long time. You might be retired for 30 or 40 years.

Then you also have to save for college educations, which can be $65k per year for private schools.

I'm operating on the assumption $2M is needed to retire and $.5M needed for college (two kids). Once I hit that mark, I'll transfer the money into a conservative fund and start paying off the mortgage more heavily.

Interesting. We're at the $3.2 million invested mark, including college funds, and have already paid off our mortgage. Yet we continue to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would you do with the extra $600 per month?

I don't understand people that want so many things. What do you do with them? Why do you want them so badly?

The same can be said for having a ton of money when you retire. What will you do with it all? You'll be all old and achy and cranky and maybe just want to sit in front of the tv and repeat the same boring stories over and over. I bet I'd enjoy the money more now. Travel, sports, nice clothes, comfy furniture, dinners out, fitness classes, boating, gardening, the theater...it all costs money and I'm in good health to enjoy it. Yeah, I'd have no trouble finding things to spend money on.

Don't you spend most of your waking hours working and raising your kids?

What's your point? I'd still take my kids on nice trips (vacation time), out to eat (nights/weekends), to baseball games (evenings), on the boat (weekends). Maybe not to the theater but that's what babysitters are for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - for people saying what would I do with the money now - I don't spend extravagantly, yet w an extra 18k a yr (like 12 or so net), I'd travel a bit more, buy a faster car, and maybe pursue an MBA even though I don't need one but want one if I can get into a top 5 school. So I do have wants that won't be fulfilled at age 65. Yet I continue to slog and save bc it's the smart thing.

More traveling, sure.
Faster car? Do you want to drive faster or this is just a status symbol?
MBA from top 5 school only? This also seems like exclusively a status symbol. You can view Harvard lectures online for free. Also, do you not have kids? Who has time for this?

Maybe you should try it for a year. But I'm betting that a faster car or an MBA won't make you any happier than maxing out your TSP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As a frugal person, I hate his blog. I wouldn't want to live like him unless I was extremely poor.

Oh and I'm sure he makes good money now that he has the blog.

Another frugal person here (have our mortgage paid off at 30, live on way less than we earn, don't outsource much, etc), and I am so glad to see you say this. We have been trying to figure out what our next financial moves are, and I keep feeling like I should be inspired by MMM. Instead I always feel depressed. Even with no mortgage and no kids, the idea of living on 24k a year sounds awful to me. I live (what I thought was) pretty simply but the idea of riding a bike most places, changing jobs or homes specifically around a commute (I live in a sprawling area), line drying clothes just sounds like an unenjoyable life to me.

I keep beating myself up because I feel like I don't "get it," but I think I do get it and it is just a bridge too far for me. I like my work though.

Me too, but I think the estimate of 75% of your current income is too high. The best thing you can do is find a retired couple that is living the life you'd like and ask them what they spend every year. For me, that was my parents. They are active, go out to eat, golf 4x a week, live near the beach in NC....they estimated about $45-50k a year. Assuming no Social Security income, that's 20 years of retirement if you have $1M in the bank. Not a long time. You might be retired for 30 or 40 years.

Then you also have to save for college educations, which can be $65k per year for private schools.

I'm operating on the assumption $2M is needed to retire and $.5M needed for college (two kids). Once I hit that mark, I'll transfer the money into a conservative fund and start paying off the mortgage more heavily.

Interesting. We're at the $3.2 million invested mark, including college funds, and have already paid off our mortgage. Yet we continue to work.

What goal are you aiming for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

As a frugal person, I hate his blog. I wouldn't want to live like him unless I was extremely poor.

Oh and I'm sure he makes good money now that he has the blog.

Another frugal person here (have our mortgage paid off at 30, live on way less than we earn, don't outsource much, etc), and I am so glad to see you say this. We have been trying to figure out what our next financial moves are, and I keep feeling like I should be inspired by MMM. Instead I always feel depressed. Even with no mortgage and no kids, the idea of living on 24k a year sounds awful to me. I live (what I thought was) pretty simply but the idea of riding a bike most places, changing jobs or homes specifically around a commute (I live in a sprawling area), line drying clothes just sounds like an unenjoyable life to me.

I keep beating myself up because I feel like I don't "get it," but I think I do get it and it is just a bridge too far for me. I like my work though.

Yes! We could be twins. We're 70% paid off on our mortgage at 29 (so we're frugal), but I think life is meant to be lived! His life sounds stingy and unenjoyable. I don't want to retire like him, I'd rather have a job that I love. And he didn't have a 2nd child so he could save more money.

I would love to know where the 2 pps live. I bet it's not in the DC metro area, and it's a mortal lock that it's not inside the beltway. It's easy to pay off your mortgage by 30 when you only have to spend $220,000 on a 4 BR, 2.5 BA house.

[Anonymous]

Important thing to remember is that 1mil in a 401k isn't all yours. You get taxed on what you take out - so factor around a 25% fed tax and 5+% state income tax on top!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - for people saying what would I do with the money now - I don't spend extravagantly, yet w an extra 18k a yr (like 12 or so net), I'd travel a bit more, buy a faster car, and maybe pursue an MBA even though I don't need one but want one if I can get into a top 5 school. So I do have wants that won't be fulfilled at age 65. Yet I continue to slog and save bc it's the smart thing.

More traveling, sure.
Faster car? Do you want to drive faster or this is just a status symbol?
MBA from top 5 school only? This also seems like exclusively a status symbol. You can view Harvard lectures online for free. Also, do you not have kids? Who has time for this?

Maybe you should try it for a year. But I'm betting that a faster car or an MBA won't make you any happier than maxing out your TSP.

OP here - I actually love cars and it has nothing to do with status; there are fun cars that carry no status value whatsoever -- think Mazda (zoom zoom). As for an MBA -- I am a prestige whore re degrees; I have 2 ivy degrees and don't want to "dilute" their value w a university of Phoenix MBA. I went to undergrad b school and have always regretted that I didn't get my professional degree in a joint prof degree + MBA program, so I actually have an interest and don't want an MBA just to say I have one and frankly now in my 30s, it's not like I'd even tell too many people if I went back to school -- it just doesn't carry that "excitement" now as it did 10 or 20 yrs ago as I suspect many would have the same reaction as you.